Cowichan River loosing Steelhead hatchery

[Blackleech]

Yeah, I think I made that pretty clear; I am opposed to keeping steelhead, hatchery or wild... as for that "hatchery thread", should we rally together and buy 10 000 smolts for the river? spend the money that would have gone to the hatchery rehabilitating the stream banks and paying off first nation and commercial fishermen.
The work they did above Stoltz, if it holds up, is awesome - why not replicate this in other areas of the river? below the 70.2 bridge? Incidentally I did not catch a single clipped fish last year... how many did you get RVP?

 

[Roe Bags]

Think your missing the point Blackleech. Fish-Rite could give a rats butt about keeping Hatchery clones, he's got more than enough meat stacked in the freezer from the banks. Its about increasing the catch totals on the Cowwy. Ever wonder why so many Newbs give up on steelheading? One of the main reasons is catch success, unless there taken out by seasoned anglers and really taught the ropes than its pretty much hopeless for them to even see a steely on the Cow let alone ever hook one. I gueess I miss the point completly about "INFERIOR" fish as you say. I've hooked hundreds of both and yes the natives are generaly a bit bigger ans a bit stronger but tell that to the average Joe blow that stands on the bank casting hour after hour and not getting a sniff. Ask your average steelheader if he'd like to hook 0-1 wild genetically "superior" steelhead or 5-6 hatchery "inferior" steelhead. I already know what the answer is. Its a small group of "fly fishing elite" that will try to implement "fly fishing zones" and run Hatchery programs off our rivers. Seems strange to me that no one group of drift fishers has ever tried to implement a "drift fish only section", probably cause were to busy actually fishing and hooking steelhead than campaining and whinning to the powers that be. What does make sence is to open a big hatchery program on either the Cowichan or Naniamo river, load up all the dead EC flows with hatchey clones. Insted of just driving over them and wondering wow that must have been a cool flow to chase steel in. But that would take pressure off all the Wild West Coast Feeders and that certainly doesnt make sence?

 

[RVP]

...I recognized along time ago that the Cowichan River has a base of predominantly wild steelhead that are in danger of disappearing - I am not interested in harasing wild fish, there for I have not fished the Cow in numerous years.

Cheers,
RVP.

 

[Mouthhouse]

Sure seems like a lot of intelligent fisherman who are passionate about our island fisheries!! Hopefully some of the energy we spend jibber jabbering on this web site gets put into efforts to do the right thing on the Cow...... BUT !! what is the right thing on the Cow?? Is it fly fish only...!!!Is it a river water hatchery like the SSS..??? Is it more bank restoration..?? Reduced logging..??? Limit agreements with the First nations...???....the list goes on. And all of our favourite... Does the dfo really give a rats butt about steelhead?? This river is supposedly a national heritage,In my opinion the gov should be acting accordingly to keep it in pristine condition filled with steelhead, Fisheries on V.I. is a HUGE boost to the economy whether it is local lakes, rivers or the oceans I think our gov needs to give their head a shake and look at the long term big picture....anyhow...my 2c.

 

[Mouthhouse]

quote:Originally posted by Concerned Angler

quoteoes the dfo really give a rats butt about steelhead??

The answer is "NO!" How many times do people have to be told that its the PROVINCEthat controls steelhead........

Ok does the PROVINCE really give a rats butt about steelhead? thx for the input. And that was kind of rhetorical, anyhow this hatchery removal could lead to some real changes who knows..?? sure seems to have stirred the pot so far!.

 

[Roe Bags]

Heres a question, why is the stamp river closed for fishing above the Ash River as of Jan 1st and the Upper Cowichan not closed? If the Stamp is mainly a Hatchery Flow why protect the fish in the upper river? The Cowichan is a far "superior" river with "wild" steelhead spawning in the upper river and still no closure? Hmmmmm, kinda makes you wonder? Could it be the monopoly that the fly flingers have in the upper river? The fact that this certain user group is still allowed to wade into the rather low flows in march/april and site cast to pairs of pre spawning or spawning steelhead is simply mind boggling. You have your "Bait Ban", you have your fly fishing only zone, common shut down the upper for a month or two to give these things a chance to spawn....

 

[Mouthhouse]

quote:Originally posted by Roe Bags

Heres a question, why is the stamp river closed for fishing above the Ash River as of Jan 1st and the Upper Cowichan not closed? If the Stamp is mainly a Hatchery Flow why protect the fish in the upper river? The Cowichan is a far "superior" river with "wild" steelhead spawning in the upper river and still no closure? Hmmmmm, kinda makes you wonder? Could it be the monopoly that the fly flingers have in the upper river? The fact that this certain user group is still allowed to wade into the rather low flows in march/april and site cast to pairs of pre spawning or spawning steelhead is simply mind boggling. You have your "Bait Ban", you have your fly fishing only zone, common shut down the upper for a month or two to give these things a chance to spawn....

It absolutely should be closed, I agree.

 

[drhook]

Good post Roe Bags!

 

[Fog Ducker]

I agree as well Bags, the steels get hit hard enough before they reach the spawning grounds, leave them alone.

As far as keeping the smolt release i dont think its worth it, even if we say there are 250 hatch fish returning (which i think it still way to high) thats only 0.5% survival. These are fish that are almost as large as catchable rainbows here.. not fry.. thats horrible.. In some rivers these programs just dont work. The cowichan is a very productive steelhead river (For VI) with a currently self sustaining population. let all the fish spawn naturally. Put the money into something that will last (ie fixing more sediment issues in the upper river) that will help all stocks on the river indefinately.

 

[OldBlackDog]

Well, lets get rid of the Browns as they do not belong there.
Lets raise the catch limit to 4 per day.
That will help the Steelhead and Salmon.

 

[Fog Ducker]

Well OBD, not sure if you were trying to be sarcastic or not there but thats not such a bad idea. I Have never understood why the 'average fishermen' is againsed fish farming and would be up in arms if atlantics (salmo spp) started to inhabit the cowi or any other river, yet the same fishermen will go to the cowi and gingerly release a 5lb brown (salmo spp). Not only do these fish use valuable habitat that would otherwise be used by native trout but they will do nothing but eat pacific salmon species jeuveniles for their entire lives. Im sorry but there is very little difference here, except at least the atlantic will do most of its feeding in the ocean which will have a much lesser effect on direct salmon jevienile mortality.

I had a fisheries professor in university.. his motto towards browns was.. If you see it, Kill it..

I mean as many of you I am an avid fishermen and have caught and released browns myself. though only because i had to. and they are fun species to fish. But I much rather see a few extra native fish over these intruders anytime.

 

[Oglthorpe]

quote:Originally posted by Fog Ducker

Well OBD, not sure if you were trying to be sarcastic or not there but thats not such a bad idea. I Have never understood why the 'average fishermen' is againsed fish farming and would be up in arms if atlantics (salmo spp) started to inhabit the cowi or any other river, yet the same fishermen will go to the cowi and gingerly release a 5lb brown (salmo spp). Not only do these fish use valuable habitat that would otherwise be used by native trout but they will do nothing but eat pacific salmon species jeuveniles for their entire lives. Im sorry but there is very little difference here, except at least the atlantic will do most of its feeding in the ocean which will have a much lesser effect on direct salmon jevienile mortality.

I had a fisheries professor in university.. his motto towards browns was.. If you see it, Kill it..

I mean as many of you I am an avid fishermen and have caught and released browns myself. though only because i had to. and they are fun species to fish. But I much rather see a few extra native fish over these intruders anytime.

I think we must have had the same teacher. Was it good old Foote?

 

[OldBlackDog]

If you think that there should be a kill fishery for browns then advise MOE.
Believe it or not they are very receptive to this ideal.

 

[Fog Ducker]

haha.. the foote doctor indeed
its has already been discusses up there at MOE and DFO, but i dont think it will ever happen, the fishery has been there for too long, there would be too many complaints from the guys i discussed in my last post

 

[RVP]

...ok, let's be fair to MELP - Because of my personal posts on this site in relation to one of my posts, that in relation to it's context was not realy directed within a state where, we truly need to envelope our concerns to the extent that we may personaly jump to that of where we as the angling public are being pounded, in the sence that we are being targeted...I don't believe that. Our reasons as anglers are deeper and MELP deserves our imput and attention.

I have had personal imput and relations with Mr. B.H. at my store - Bob's imput to my concerns was understanding and possitive and with informative issue, so much so, that I started to see why MELP may want to build on public concern, an easier way to share our public information...

Mr. B.H. did promise to share information and in the same breath I promised to him, that I would share all that was presented in a non biased model...time will tell.

Cheers,
RVP.

 

[RVP]

...here is some of the information that Bob sent to me with regards to the 2007 Cowichan river report...reading this though, I tend to agee with MELP's decision to abandon the steelhead smolt production program as it sit's, but truly there must be something that we can work towards to help keep the opportunity.

http://www.diehardangler.com/Cowichan-River-Creel-2007-Final-Report.pdf

-------------------
Hi Robert. As promised yesterday here is a copy of the Cowichan Creel
report. A couple of additional points to remember:

* This results of last season's creel survey did not drive the
decision to abandon the steelhead smolt production program. The creel
could reasonably be termed the last nail in that coffin but we have been
painfully aware for many years the Cowichan hatchery smolts displayed
consistent poor survival. In fact there was never a single brood year
where any optimism for the future of that program prevailed. Some
members of the angling community seem to be of the understanding we made
our decision on the strength of one simple snapshot. I can assure you
that was not the case.
* The catch and days fished data resulting from the annual mailed
questionnaire sampling of licensed steelhead anglers (i.e. the annual
Steelhead Harvest Analysis reports) is highly positively biased. That
problem has been well understood and well documented on numerous British
Columbia steelhead streams for many years. The inflation factor is
large and made worse when comparing data from the pre-catch and release
era to any time since. Multiple captures of the same fish under
intensive catch and release fisheries such as occurs on the Cowichan
only magnifies the positive response bias problem that already existed.
The bottom line on the Cowichan is the proportion of hatchery fish in
the catch has always been a major disappointment and far below what it
should have been given annual releases of 50,000 large and outwardly
healthy hatchery reared smolts.

Thanks for taking time to discuss the Cowichan and related matters
yesterday. Don't hesitate to contact our office if there are other
issues or questions you feel you could use some background on.

<<Cowichan River Creel 2007 Final Report.pdf>>
Bob Hooton
Head, Fish & Wildlife Section
Vancouver Island Region
Ministry of Environment
2080-A Labieux Rd, Nanaimo, B.C. V9T 6J9
Phone (250) 751-3109 Fax (250) 751-3208
E-mail Bob.Hooton@gov.bc.ca

 

[Graham]

They misspelled my name in the report!!
lol

 

[Time]

Ok, they (MOE) are saving $70k by dropping the steelhead program, but with no guarantee that the money will be used for trout.
My thought, keep the 70k for steelhead, but use it for a seasonal spawning channel in the lower river.

What would it cost to do a minor diversion into a side channel with, if necessary, annual replacement or cleansing of gravel for redds.
Strictly a no fishing piece, but good spawning, eggs are hatched and gone before the river drops in the summer, siltation a (relatively, given the gravel is cleaned or replaced annually) minor problem. I can't see why it wouldn't work.

Enhanced habitat to replace some that has been totally screwed over up river.

 

[Last Chance]

Shut 'er down. The only proven conservation measure. Watch out, we may very well have a steelhead "draw" over the next few years.

 

[chris73]

Good idea Time. If you want to find out how much this could cost and what the implications would be, contact Mr. Dave Murray, as he was the engineer responsible for the Stoltz Bluff remediation project and he's got tons of experience with river enhancement (dmurray@kwl.ca)...