Biologists?? DFO dont need no stinkin biologists!!!!!!!!

Yes it is unbelievable....they need to get rid of 1/3 of the paper pushersr in Ottawa and leave these guys alone to do their jobs.
 
This is appalling but I am not surprised. The conservative goal is to eventually get rid of DFO entirely (I posted this on an earlier thread but it is relevant again here).

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Harper comes at this from a fundamentalist conservative dogma. That is, that most government is “administrative overhead” and “rules and regulations” just frustrate unfettered development. The smaller the government the better.
Environmental, fish and habitat management are highly complex and from the conservative “quasi-religious” perspective, expensive. They just do not want to manage the complex ecological, scientific, jurisdictional and stakeholder issues surrounding fish habitat and fish harvest management. Again, in their view, they would need too many staff and research programs to fund to make this all work properly.
Better, in their view, that they “privatise” the whole thing and let the “owners” manage it themselves, including ocean fisheries. That way they can get rid of DFO entirely and eventually other departments too, including Environment!
And the appalling thing about all this is they can take this record to the voters and say “look what we did to reduce government bureaucracy and therefore your taxes”.
They are selling out our heritage and our future generations environment, health and well-being, in order to make a buck now. It is all about spending environmental capital now and mortgaging the future and the hell with the generations to follow!!
We have to make our voices heard to turn this around………
 
...the fisheries protection branch in British Columbia will be reduced to 60 positions from 90.

Once again Harper shows us his cards revealing how he truly feels about our Pacific fisheries.

Turn your head into the wind coming from the East then breath-in long and slow through your nose... can you smell it?

It's that old-familiar scent of 'Bull-****' coming from Ottawa!

War!
 
All cushy Federal government employment is shrinking across the board. We no longer have the tax base to support the monster that the Fed has become. The side benefit to all of this doom and gloom is that many of these people who are being let go will receive severance packages and have opportunities to transition or consult as private contractors to the government. Science is still required and can not be ignored. The Fed is making swooping changes to all aspects of government, and yes the changes will effect numerous people. Gone are the days of cushy careers with long term payouts for retirement. It is a fact of life, and we no longer have a strong tax base to support most of what this monster has become.

People need to value change, they need to look beyond what they think they know, and look for a way to succeed in the future. The Fed is top heavy, we all can agree on that. We have all bantered for change over the years, now that it is happening, we all seem to be crying foul. I know that things look really bad, and they are especially with these pipelines being rammed through, but cutting sections of DFO up is more to do with budgets than it does in suppressing science.
Rubbish lollipop. You have really fallen for this haven’t you!!
And the appalling thing about all this is they can take this record to the voters and say “look what we did to reduce government bureaucracy and therefore your taxes”.
You have confused two things which is exactly what Harper wants! Under the guise of “saving money” and “reducing budgets” he is gutting all departments with any regulatory authority. These are front line biologists and fisheries people here on the West Coast we are talking about, NOT Ottawa fat cats!
Your nonsense is exactly what Harper wants you to think, whereas in reality it is about removing all science based regulatory impediments to rampant oil pipeline and tar sands development. Harper is a fundamentalist conservative who believes god will not “allow” mankind to destroy the environment. He has nothing but contempt for science. He believes the earth is only 6000 years old because that is the dogma of his church.
The man is not logical or rational and can see only $$$. He will sell the “soul” of BC, the rivers and coast, for his oil friends and he is busy clearing the path for them now, as surely as if he were actually out there laying the pipe!!
 
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All cushy Federal government employment is shrinking across the board. We no longer have the tax base to support the monster that the Fed has become. The side benefit to all of this doom and gloom is that many of these people who are being let go will receive severance packages and have opportunities to transition or consult as private contractors to the government. Science is still required and can not be ignored. The Fed is making swooping changes to all aspects of government, and yes the changes will effect numerous people. Gone are the days of cushy careers with long term payouts for retirement. It is a fact of life, and we no longer have a strong tax base to support most of what this monster has become.

People need to value change, they need to look beyond what they think they know, and look for a way to succeed in the future. The Fed is top heavy, we all can agree on that. We have all bantered for change over the years, now that it is happening, we all seem to be crying foul. I know that things look really bad, and they are especially with these pipelines being rammed through, but cutting sections of DFO up is more to do with budgets than it does in suppressing science.

Cushy? What is “cushy” are the gold plated pensions and severance packages that MPs receive. For every $1 an MP puts into their pension plan, the Canadian taxpayer puts in about $23. It is the MPs that are robbing the Canadian taxpayer blind – not the front line biologist or technician. The front line biologist or technician is not buying $16 orange juice. Instead, they have a myriad of federal accountability legislation which holds them fully accountable while those above them back east can do basically whatever they want. While it is true that Federal government employees have a good pension plan this particular plan is very likely to change with a very different arrangement in the near future. It should be noted that Federal employees do contribute to their pension plan – significantly more than MPs do. This contribution by employees will likely be even more in the very near future. People that say that Federal government employees receive this “gold plated” pension are full of crap (I repeat..full of crap). Front line employees are erroneously getting lumped in with people like Bev Oda who is a total embarrassment to mankind. The pension plan that many Federal employees receive is not going to make them rich all on its own. Retirement is only as good as how you plan for it.

Secondly, there is nothing cushy about the wages. Field biologists and technicians (yes, even technicians are affected) are not making $100,000 a year. Department biologists and technicians pay taxes (municipal, provincial and federal) like you do, they have mortgages like you do, they likely have children like you do, they drive an automobile like you do and they buy food like you do. We are not talking about white collar workers here. Many are hunters and anglers just like the people on this board. Many of these biologists have Science degrees which they devoted quite a large part of their lives to attain. There are those that are still paying off their student loans. Many of them have attained a large amount of practical experience to do the job they do. More importantly, they love the work they do.

The department has been continuously cut to the point where front line biologists and technicians are continuously challenged to keep delivering on their mandate. It is not just people that are affected - it is the resources that are also impacted. However, the workload (i.e. referrals) is always increasing. For instance, if you look at the increase in development on the larger lakes in the BC Interior you will quickly notice that Habitat Biologists and Technicians have quite a bit on their plate. Your versions of “side benefits” are not as juicy as they look if you look into how administration works in the department especially contracting. It also comes as little consolation when these cuts impact the whole family unit – not just the employee. Whether you are in the private or public sector we cannot forget to put a human face to these changes. It is a very stressful time for these employees because this change will likely impact not only what they will do for employment, but where they live (selling and buying), their spouse’s work situation, where they raise their children, where their children go to school and their particular financial situation. For instance, moving from one place to another can have major impacts to a family budget. Many have likely have deep roots in the communities they live in so it is not just a simple move. Many will potentially have to compete with fellow colleagues for the limited positions left. What kind of situation do you think that will create? It is not, “Oh they will just find a job contracting to the government” and everything is fine. That is an extremely simplistic view of a potentially complicated situation that a family of an affected employee can face. We need to think of these impacts at the “family” level because what impacts the employee will impact the family. Think if you were in that situation how you would feel. I do concede that affected employees will likely be treated much better than some private sector employees in terms of finding other employment within the Federal Public Service, transitioning out of the Public Service or training opportunities. Nevertheless, it is still a stressful time when you lose your position. I am sure there are members that can appreciate what these families are going through.

To expect the same level of service to keep up with an increasing and diverse workload will be a very, very tall order. I can understand people wanting change with what the department does but in this case people should be very careful about what they wish for……because they just might get it and it might come back to bite them in the butt. For every action there is an opposite reaction and it may or may not align with the aspirations of many environmentalists, stakeholders and the general public.
 
Actually it does matter what you write because from there I can tell whether you have some idea about what you are talking about in regards to departmental employees, their wages, their benefits, and their jobs. Thank you for satisfying my curiosity. Everyone has an opinion and on these forums you have the right to express it. However, in my opinion what you stated was incorrect and not reflective of what the situation truly is for these particular people. This comes from a person who knows exactly what these employees do for a living including their wages and benefits. This also comes from a person that does similar work to these impacted employees and has some idea of the workload they face on a day to day basis.

Yes, change can be a good thing; however, the illusion of “change” in this regard is what is in question. I may not agree with Englishman on many things here but I agree with him here. This has more to do removing the hindrances to development than saving money. Habitat employees are seen as hindrances to development (i.e. regulatory “red-tape”). Part of the grief affected habitat employees are feeling at this time is this shift in priorities – not just their positions. They are frustrated. They know better than most people what these changes will mean (ask Otto Langer). If people such as yourself desire this change and are so eager to embrace it then so be it.; however, you need to be prepared for the change that comes with it. Again, be careful about what you wish for.
 
Your nonsense is exactly what Harper wants you to think, whereas in reality it is about removing all science based regulatory impediments to rampant oil pipeline and tar sands development. Harper is a fundamentalist conservative who believes god will not “allow” mankind to destroy the environment. He has nothing but contempt for science. He believes the earth is only 6000 years old because that is the dogma of his church.
The man is not logical or rational and can see only $$$. He will sell the “soul” of BC, the rivers and coast, for his oil friends and he is busy clearing the path for them now, as surely as if he were actually out there laying the pipe!!

hit the nail on the head here englishman. This is the core of the issue, and many issues, we are facing in the world today. When someone cannot be convinced that, for instance, the world is older than 6,000 years despite the mountains of evidence how can we expect them to believe in other issues with less conclusive scientific consensus? Whether it's fish habitat, global warming or evolution there are a frightening % of people worldwide who won't/can't make the connection between evidence and reality because of some fundamental views (with no empirical evidence) that were hammered into them since childhood. Some say that everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs, and I agree with that. I don't agree, however, that we should be making policy decisions that affect our world based on this beliefs. Unless and until this changes we can expect a lot more of the same short-sighted decision making
 
hit the nail on the head here englishman. This is the core of the issue, and many issues, we are facing in the world today. When someone cannot be convinced that, for instance, the world is older than 6,000 years despite the mountains of evidence how can we expect them to believe in other issues with less conclusive scientific consensus? Whether it's fish habitat, global warming or evolution there are a frightening % of people worldwide who won't/can't make the connection between evidence and reality because of some fundamental views (with no empirical evidence) that were hammered into them since childhood. Some say that everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs, and I agree with that. I don't agree, however, that we should be making policy decisions that affect our world based on this beliefs. Unless and until this changes we can expect a lot more of the same short-sighted decision making

Absolutely right on Tincan! I would also go a little further "everyone is entitled to their religious beliefs" EXCEPT where those beliefs lead to the debasement and soclal enslavement of women and their categorisation as nothing more than chattels with no innate rights as equal human beings, where those beliefs lead to the vilification and revilement of human beings simply for their sexual orientation, and where those beliefs prevent or obstruct children from receiving proper medical attention. There are few others, but the world will never be a better place while these and other religiously inspired evil views are espoused and promoted as "virtues".
 
No matter how you cut it, the world is changing and we can not afford the lives that we now have. Things are broken and have been for a long, long time. Yes, it's sad, and it is hard to sometimes imagine what life is like in another persons shoes, that is unless you have truely been there already. Hardship, what is hardship? Why, hardship is a choice, a choice to stay in a place of discomfort and hardship can only be fixed by letting go of the place where you were. Only then moving foreward in life to an area of abundance or change or difference.

It doesn't really matter what I write, because you will take it for what ever you like and disregard the rest that you don't want and make the jumbled words into a contribed paradox of what you think that I said, or meant. No matter how you look at it, it all comes from a person who knows that change is good and well meaning and that change is the key to moving foreward with enriched flow and momentum, a vibe to create & prosper.

Hi Shuswap,

To me it would apear by your comments that you are heavily invested, or close to the scenario and I can understand your cause for concern. I know many individuals that work for the FED, whom are simply hoping to make it just one or two more years in order to collect their pensions, some are even moving into business in the private sector using their talent to help manage and benefit business in other emerging related markets. The system is broken, it needs to be ajusted in order to become viable! Irregardless of effort we need change and if we fight it to the point of having next to no money to pay for it, then expect the worst to happen.

Lollypop,

By making grand sweeping statements about change, you are mixing up several concepts and obfuscating the issue, which is the firing of front line field biologists here on the West Coast. Again we are NOT talking about reducing Ottawa bureaucracy!
There is good change and bad change. This Government pays millions in subsidies to the oil industry. It spend millions on defence and a host of other programs, small cuts in which could pay for dozens of additional environmental monitoring and enforcement jobs. Does the DFO need reform? Of course it does and many folks have posted great points on this forum as to why that is so. However, cuts to DFO field staff is NOT one of the changes required.
Instead we need to restore the habitat protection laws torn up by Harper's Bill C38. We need MORE staff in habitat monitoring and enforcement. We need MORE field based science and research, not less. Like most of Harper's recent changes these specific changes are very bad.
For you to applaud them under some sort of "blanket mantra" that any and every change is good is ludicrous and does not advance any specific arguments to do with this particular attack on the environment committed by Harper, which follows a distinct pattern with a specific end goal in mind and has nothing to do with change for the better.

And as for your assertion that hardship is a choice. That is sickening and is nothing more than perversion of the 19th century view that poverty is a "choice". I wonderful way for the rich and gilded aristocracy to salve their conscience and turn a blind eye to the terrible conditions of the working people eking a living in the slums and workhouses of England and Europe, but without a shred of truth, or morals!!
 
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"I am more concerned with China owning Canada for the next 31yrs, than I am for people who have an opportunity to do something a little different for a living."

Ah, but Mr. lollypop, you led me to believe you were all about change.....

Mr. Harper will bring change. It appears that you are on board with his "downsizing" of the Federal civil service. I'm sure he'll take a lesson from our provincial Libs and only cut a 1/3 of the worker bees on the bottom of the food chain and keep the bloating in full force at the top. It's all about optics, nothing more and the money wasted will continue unabated, perhaps increasing.

FYI "irregardless" is not a word. It's use can be construed as an indicator of general intelligence.

Tip
 
I guess in all honesty the current government is no better than the previous ones. The fish stock has been becoming depleted for many years, over the course of successive Liberal and Conservative governments,it didn't just start happening. Frankly I don't hear anyone, be they Liberal, Conservative or NDP, that I'm confident really cares. Pretty depressing really, there is sure enough blame to go around for all our politicians regardless of Party affiliation!
 
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