AREA 14 SFAC MEETING

[Last Chance]

I mean not having it at night because driving at night is dangerous. I should have clarified it a little.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[fishingbc]

quote:Originally posted by LastChance

I mean not having it at night because driving at night is dangerous. I should have clarified it a little.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

I will try to post the link to the article if they put it online, if they don't I will try to scan it and do it that way.....

 

[Reluctant]

I have never posted before but do enjoy reading the many topics and information on this site. There’s a problem with the Area 14 SFAB. I’ve been reading with interest and the following is obvious:

Area 14 covers a large area. The current Area 14 SFAB board holds daytime/weekday meetings, during most people’s working hours, in the same small location each time, and are unwilling to change to accommodate many more people who might otherwise be able to attend, vote, and have input. This problem exists and has not been denied in any postings. The current board held one recent evening meeting, but was careful to make it an “information only” meeting – not intended to conduct any real business, entertain motions, or make any decisions. Of course it was poorly attended.

There has been one poster persistent in bringing this issue to attention. He/she has some supporters and a few opposers. The persistent poster has provided relevant information and reasons for demanding a change to meeting times, locations, etc. He/she has brought to light the fact that other Area SFAB meetings of importance are held during evenings and/or weekends and appear to be well-attended. The opposers have not offered anything constructive but have criticized the postings, told him/her to stop ranting, and suggested some posts contained libel. Libel is not an issue when written statements are true. NOT ONE opposing post has contained an intelligent argument to support allowing the Area 14 SFAB to continue operating in a manner that excludes many working people and students. (Being afraid of night driving is not a relevant argument).

The many posts are indicating that this current board seems to be a clique holding tightly to its power. Unlike other Area boards, this one wants to conduct business and make decisions at times when it can expect little or no in-person opposition. All this bickering over a problem that no one is denying is pointless. The solution is simple.
Don’t shoot back at the messenger; just make the change.

I assume the Area 14 SFAB has a parent organization… I challenge the parent organization now to: Step in and make the change that the current board is unwilling to do in order to properly serve the Area; Remove some of the power that the current Area 14 SFAB board is abusing; Mandate a set schedule for evening and/or weekend meetings for this Area; and mandate a rotation of meeting locations to service all of the Area.

 

[profisher]

Every board has annual elections...if you don't like the current leadership, go to meetings whenever they are and elect a chair who will make the changes you seek.

 

[fishingbc]

quote:Originally posted by profisher

Every board has annual elections...if you don't like the current leadership, go to meetings whenever they are and elect a chair who will make the changes you seek.

wouldn't that be the thing to do....but if you have read all or just some of the posts and there have been many, these meetings are held during the day (9:30 AM) on weekdays when all the people I know who want to go are working....I'm sure you are too....making the possibility of electing a new chair virtually impossible....something I'm sure is the present board is well aware of....just a quick note the elections are every two years, at least they are here....

 

[GLG]

quote:Every board has annual elections...if you don't like the current leadership, go to meetings whenever they are and elect a chair who will make the changes you seek.

Another way would be to introduce a motion to change the meeting time and venue to something that works for you. The motion would be voted on and majority consensus would rule the day. It would not matter what the chair thinks, as his job is to run the meeting and make sure the rules (motions and bylaws) are followed. If you don’t know how to do this I would advise you to pickup a copy of “Roberts Rules of Order”.
Be prepared with an argument based on facts and have those facts backed up with the proper documentation and you will most likely win the vote. If you don’t win find out why your motion did not pass and refine your argument to supply more facts and or proper documentation and bring your motion back to the board to be once more voted on.

GLG

 

[h-core]

quote:Originally posted by GLG

quote:Every board has annual elections...if you don't like the current leadership, go to meetings whenever they are and elect a chair who will make the changes you seek.

Another way would be to introduce a motion to change the meeting time and venue to something that works for you. The motion would be voted on and majority consensus would rule the day. It would not matter what the chair thinks, as his job is to run the meeting and make sure the rules (motions and bylaws) are followed. If you don’t know how to do this I would advise you to pickup a copy of “Roberts Rules of Order”.
Be prepared with an argument based on facts and have those facts backed up with the proper documentation and you will most likely win the vote. If you don’t win find out why your motion did not pass and refine your argument to supply more facts and or proper documentation and bring your motion back to the board to be once more voted on.

GLG

This was tried at last years "informational" meeting. The chair refused to hold a vote. The issue was then voted on at a daytime meeting when only the regular group was in attandance. I realize that many feel Fishingbc is just ranting and stiring the pot, but there is reason for his frustration.

 

[GLG]

I was at January meeting and again at this December meeting. I do not recall a motion put forth to have the times and venue changed or the chair tabling (refused the vote?) said motion. It could have, as you say, as it came up at the next meeting. If anyone has the minutes maybe they can check.

I do remember the topic coming up and lots of debate from both sides of the floor. This digressed and it was not good. I do recall that the chair tried to impose the rules of the meeting and give people the floor but the interruptions from the audience was too much.

If there was a motion put forth it was lost in the commotion.

I would submit that perhaps last January the chair did the right thing and table the motion for debate at the next meeting. This would have given both sides time to collect themselves and prepare their arguments.

I’m sorry that the last vote went against this motion to change the meeting times and venue. Perhaps the board will debate and vote again if there is another motion coming. I for one would try to attend a meeting if this were on the agenda, as it affects me here in Area 14. I would hope that all the members could hear the pros and cons of this change and use their best judgment to decide this issue.

Should this issue be discussed here on the Internet? Sure why not. Will we get both sides of issue equally represented? Probably not as the majority of the members are not here. Will the discussion be civil? Maybe if we start another thread.

GLG

 

[Reluctant]

I'm enjoying the responses to my foray into the posting world. I have a question though: Isn't there actual fishing/angling related business to be discussed, motioned, voted, and decided on at these meetings? The issues of meeting days/times/locations should be automatically fixed to best serve the entire Area - seems it should not be a matter of question or motions, etc. - seems once the problem was brought to light, the changes should have been automatic - then the hopefully more well-attended meetings would be free to deal with all the actual real business the area SFABs were intended to deal with. Personally, I have an extremely difficult time getting out of work on a working day and It's financially a hardship to lose work time.

 

[Rum Buddies]

well said reluctant. There is no possible argument as to why an important meeting should be held during the day time on a weekday.

If the old guys don't want to miss wheel of fortune then have it in the morning on a weekend.

Come on, its too dangerous to drive at night? The fact that someone involved with the direction of the fishery can say this with a straight face is down right scary.

http://www.fishingvancouverisland.org - Charter Draw Dec. 20th

 

[GLG]

Reluctant, there are bylaws to be followed that are set out in all not for profit organizations. It is the way to govern them. It is the chairs role to enforce the bylaws and to run the meeting. Most not for profit organizations adopt “Roberts Rules of Order” in the way they hold meetings. It is usually in the bylaws to do so. The degree that you follow them in you meetings depends on the size of your organization. The larger the organization the stricter you follow the rules at you meeting. This system works from your local chess club all the way up to running the country.

If you hold a meeting and these rules are not followed you will have chaos. That’s why when you attend a meeting you have an agenda, minutes, reports, motions, debates and votes. There is no mechanism to automatically change the rules nor should there be. Some bylaws need a majority and some need a two-thirds majority to be changed. It all depends on the bylaws.

I do not know what the SFAB bylaws are nor am I on their board

Let’s say your bylaws say you are to hold two public meetings per year at a time and place that the public can attend. You then find you need more meetings to accomplish tasks. A member would bring a motion, to have eight additional meetings, to the table. The motion would then be debated and possibly changed to add time and venue. This new motion would then be put to a vote. If carried it would become binding to the organization. In this case you have not changed your bylaw you have just added a little extra rule in the form of a motion. Now let’s say a member finds that these new meetings are not to his liking. He would request the chair to have the subject added to the agenda for the next meeting. At the next meeting the member would bring forth a motion to change the eight meetings to what he would like to see. Lets say ten meetings per year at a time and venue he wants. Everyone attending the meeting would have a chance to talk on the subject. They should be free to speak their mind without interruption (hence the term a member has the floor). After this debate the membership would hold a vote on the proposed motion. If passed it becomes the rule if not, it is over. Majority rules this is democracy.
Now let’s say you don’t like the out come of the motion. What do you do? Do you go to the next meeting and disrupt it? No, you refine your arguments and request that the issue be put on the agenda for the next meeting. If you try again and it fails then what do you do? You must decide if your involvement is worth your time. It would not be the first time people step back and retire from an organization.

To hold a meeting and have chaos break out is not good. To have someone demand the board do there bidding is just plain silly. It’s irrelevant if their demand is just or not. It’s just not the way to run an organization. If you want change, work with the system that’s what it’s for. Join the process learn how it operates.

Does this board talk about fishing issues? Well I sure hope so because there are lots of issues that need their attention and effort. I respect this board because I have walked their path and it is not an easy one.

 

[fishingbc]

SQUAMISH TO LILLOOET SFAC
Howe Sound Inn
37801 Cleveland Avenue, Squamish, BC
Thursday, November 05, 2009
6:30 pm to 9:30 pm
Agenda
6:30-6:40
Introductions
6:40-6:45
Adoption of Minutes from March 13, 2009 meeting
6:45-7:00
Old Business (Motions/Actions)
7:00-7:15
Report on meeting with MP John Weston – Dave Brown
7:15-7:30
C&P report – Johanna Jenkins
7:30-8:00
CERTC
8:00-9:15
Area Planning and Issues
-
Squamish pinks
-
Furry Creek
-
Birkenhead River Chinook
9:15-9:30
Other Business

 

[GLG]

quote:Originally posted by fishingbc

SQUAMISH TO LILLOOET SFAC
Howe Sound Inn
37801 Cleveland Avenue, Squamish, BC
Thursday, November 05, 2009
6:30 pm to 9:30 pm
Agenda
6:30-6:40
Introductions
6:40-6:45
Adoption of Minutes from March 13, 2009 meeting
6:45-7:00
Old Business (Motions/Actions)
7:00-7:15
Report on meeting with MP John Weston – Dave Brown
7:15-7:30
C&P report – Johanna Jenkins
7:30-8:00
CERTC
8:00-9:15
Area Planning and Issues
-
Squamish pinks
-
Furry Creek
-
Birkenhead River Chinook
9:15-9:30
Other Business

And your point is ?????

 

[Reluctant]

Thanks, GLG, for pointing out exactly why the meetings should be held when a great many more people are able to attend.

 

[GLG]

I have tried to explain how</u> members of area 14 can get the meetings changed to a time and venue suitable for more to attend. I have also tried to give reasons why</u> it should be done in the way I suggest. If any of you feel I am bias to daytime meetings let me once again repeat that I am in favor of changing the time and venue it get more people involved. However I will respect the majority and live by this boards wishes.

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. If your opinion is contrary to mine I hope that you would present your arguments in a respectful manner. If you cannot, you should keep them to yourself. To publicly act with disrespect is shameful</u>.

The men and women that currently sit on the area 14 board are honorable people. They have given their time freely to help our passion. They have reached a point in their lives where they are now giving back to society. This is common with most volunteer organizations.

So far in this debate I have heard no one offer to step up with help in changing the current time and venue. Sure I have heard others voice their opinion, most with respect. Is there no one willing to work within the system? It would take a commitment to get involved perhaps sit on the board and attend the meetings.

The current board is looking for the future leaders. They are always looking for their replacements it’s called succession planning. It’s the way it works. Does anyone here have the time or ability to get involved and learn the issues here in area 14? You would also have to learn how the process operates and commit yourself to the process; it’s policies and procedures. Most of all you should have a record of trust and show sound judgment.

Perhaps you have a young family and a job that has high demands and you cannot commit you time and energy to our area 14 board, how can you help them?
Answer the call when they urge you to write a letter to the Minister of DFO. Encourage their efforts on your behalf. Thank them for their service. Ask them how you can help ease their workload. If you can’t do this then I would suggest you show some class and get out of their way and let them do their work.

GLG
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? - John Maynard Keynes

 

[h-core]

quote:Originally posted by GLG

I have tried to explain how</u> members of area 14 can get the meetings changed to a time and venue suitable for more to attend. I have also tried to give reasons why</u> it should be done in the way I suggest. If any of you feel I am bias to daytime meetings let me once again repeat that I am in favor of changing the time and venue it get more people involved. However I will respect the majority and live by this boards wishes.

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. If your opinion is contrary to mine I hope that you would present your arguments in a respectful manner. If you cannot, you should keep them to yourself. To publicly act with disrespect is shameful</u>.

The men and women that currently sit on the area 14 board are honorable people. They have given their time freely to help our passion. They have reached a point in their lives where they are now giving back to society. This is common with most volunteer organizations.

So far in this debate I have heard no one offer to step up with help in changing the current time and venue. Sure I have heard others voice their opinion, most with respect. Is there no one willing to work within the system? It would take a commitment to get involved perhaps sit on the board and attend the meetings.

The current board is looking for the future leaders. They are always looking for their replacements it’s called succession planning. It’s the way it works. Does anyone here have the time or ability to get involved and learn the issues here in area 14? You would also have to learn how the process operates and commit yourself to the process; it’s policies and procedures. Most of all you should have a record of trust and show sound judgment.

Perhaps you have a young family and a job that has high demands and you cannot commit you time and energy to our area 14 board, how can you help them?
Answer the call when they urge you to write a letter to the Minister of DFO. Encourage their efforts on your behalf. Thank them for their service. Ask them how you can help ease their workload. If you can’t do this then I would suggest you show some class and get out of their way and let them do their work.

GLG
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? - John Maynard Keynes

GLG,
You clearly mean well and I respect that. However, you don't know all the facts and history about this situation. The request has been made through the correct avenues by at least one person to hold a working meeting in the evening to debate this very topic with the general public. I won't get into posting emails for proof ect... you will have to take or leave my word for it. The comittee refuses to change, end of story. They have threatend to either leave it the way it is or step down. That's why the powers above don't want to touch it. The vote to maintain daytime meetings was held at a meeting last May during the day. If there was a pre-meeting agenda, it wasn't sent to everyone. I personally am getting tired of this fight & won't likely bother being a part of the process. I don't deny that the comittee works hard & wounldn't want see them all step down. I just don't agree with the meeting times & also don't agree that they are threatening to step down if they don't get their way. If they truley want more people to get involved, evening meetings seem like the best way to make that happen.

 

[searun]

It seems to me from the posts on both sides of this issue that what we really need is common sense and good judgement to be exercised. Let's try a little.

1) Clearly the common sense logical guiding principle should be to do what is best for the majority.
2) Following that logic, it makes good sense to act in a way that assures the maximum level of sport angler participation.
3) It flows from this that the greatest number of recreational angler participants would be available in evenings following normal work hours.
4) Therefore, following natural logic, it makes most sense to hold SFAC meetings during evenings.

Any other form of logic, it would appear to me to be entirely self serving and not serving the best interest of all.

Searun

 

[fishingbc]

quote:Originally posted by searun

It seems to me from the posts on both sides of this issue that what we really need is common sense and good judgement to be exercised. Let's try a little.

1) Clearly the common sense logical guiding principle should be to do what is best for the majority.
2) Following that logic, it makes good sense to act in a way that assures the maximum level of sport angler participation.
3) It flows from this that the greatest number of recreational angler participants would be available in evenings following normal work hours.
4) Therefore, following natural logic, it makes most sense to hold SFAC meetings during evenings.

Any other form of logic, it would appear to me to be entirely self serving and not serving the best interest of all.

Searun

Pat I couldn't agree with you more the self serving timing of these meetings should be looked at by senior SFAB main board members and have the new terms of reference (that is being put together now) changed to make sure ALL local SFAB meetings are held during the evenings or on weekends...

 

[fishingbc]

quote:Originally posted by GLG

I have tried to explain how</u> members of area 14 can get the meetings changed to a time and venue suitable for more to attend. I have also tried to give reasons why</u> it should be done in the way I suggest. If any of you feel I am bias to daytime meetings let me once again repeat that I am in favor of changing the time and venue it get more people involved. However I will respect the majority and live by this boards wishes.

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. If your opinion is contrary to mine I hope that you would present your arguments in a respectful manner. If you cannot, you should keep them to yourself. To publicly act with disrespect is shameful</u>.

The men and women that currently sit on the area 14 board are honorable people. They have given their time freely to help our passion. They have reached a point in their lives where they are now giving back to society. This is common with most volunteer organizations.

So far in this debate I have heard no one offer to step up with help in changing the current time and venue. Sure I have heard others voice their opinion, most with respect. Is there no one willing to work within the system? It would take a commitment to get involved perhaps sit on the board and attend the meetings.

The current board is looking for the future leaders. They are always looking for their replacements it’s called succession planning. It’s the way it works. Does anyone here have the time or ability to get involved and learn the issues here in area 14? You would also have to learn how the process operates and commit yourself to the process; it’s policies and procedures. Most of all you should have a record of trust and show sound judgment.

Perhaps you have a young family and a job that has high demands and you cannot commit you time and energy to our area 14 board, how can you help them?
Answer the call when they urge you to write a letter to the Minister of DFO. Encourage their efforts on your behalf. Thank them for their service. Ask them how you can help ease their workload. If you can’t do this then I would suggest you show some class and get out of their way and let them do their work.

GLG
When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir? - John Maynard Keynes

As H-Core stated in his post you DO NOT know the whole picture here....putting the FACTS on this forum is only one more way to bring this issue to the public....acting to publicly disrespect any of the area 14 sfab members here is way off base....have they shown any respect to the wishes of ALL anglers in area 14 by holding these private little get togethers....hardly...if you were party to some of the communications going around you would probably change your tune....with area 14 local reps working behind the scenes to insure they have their way by threatening the resign is nothing short of holding the process hostage....is that the kind of local board you want making important decisions for you....its odd that "the GOVERNOR" has gone dead silent on this issue once the facts of his own local board evening meetings came to light....whats up with that...I guess you cant argue with the common sense approach of holding local meetings in the evenings...."the local board looking for replacements" where did you hear that one....do you think that by keeping these meetings during working hours anyone is going to step up or even have the time to get involved...until that changes the old boys club will continue to run the area 14 board just they they want....in private