Another Sun Article

I don't know trendsetter. How big is the Fraser drainage? How many aboriginal communities are there? How many people are there in those communities? How many households? How many fish does that work-out to when you factor-in that some hundreds of thousands of up-river aboriginals rely on these 270K of fish? How many fish do you feel would get them through a winter, plus an economic fishery? Do you understand that if you were living in an upriver First Nations community that you unlikely feel that your needs were taken care of after conservation needs were met, given the numbers I posted here from the Canadian commercial fisheries alone (AND not incl. AK, and sports and commercial-sports)? (PS - I am just trying to present a different perspective here)...

How many FN do you think live in the Fraser valley or off the tributaries of the Fraser that carry sockeye? It sure as s**t is not hundreds of thousands. More like 30 thousand or less that are on reserve and actively fishing. Probably less than that. And it's not like they all eat only salmon. Most have access to Safeway and Superstore like the rest of us.

My point was they've already taken 270 thousand fish and there are 9 million pinks on the way up the river. The sockeye return is low and if they are left to net as much as they want then we will be left with nothing in 4 years.
 
The offhand comment that they can shop at Safeway like everyone else - doesn't cut it, Trendsetter. That doesn't cut it for anyone, esp. FN.

you appear either unfamilar and/or uncomfortable in developing an understanding of what aboriginal rights are - and how they have been affirmed and recognized by the constitution, and then further detailed in various court decisions over the past 20 years or so.

The language is dry, so don't read court decisions after a full belly or you'll be snoring - but the rationalization by the various judges is illuminating. DFO has been slowly pulled into comanagement and shared decision-making through these decisions, and the federal government has to provide opportunity not just for FSC catch - but also economic fisheries.

Fish has always been a significant part of their culture, and comprised not only sustenance - but trade. Many court decisions have recognized that communal right, associated within a geographic and historic context.

The history and associated politics is quite interesting, and also comes-out in the court cases.

Like it or not - we are still living through the echoes of colonization today, and it's easy to isolate ourselves away from that history w/o understanding the context of court decisions we hear about in the papers.

If you are a history buff, or interested in the study of different human civilizations and cultures - i'd recommend reading-up. Unfortunately when I went through grade school - this whole section of Canadian history was conspicously absent. Roman history and WWII has the main cirriculum. Since then, I have self-educated myself. Good news! We have a real rich history in this Country.

Following up along the rationale over the 276K catch numbers - one of the presenters in the Cohen Commission stated that over 50% of FN in BC are along the Fraser; and the 2006 Census enumerated 196,075 aboriginal people in B.C., accounting for 5% of the total population in the province. This number may contain non-status, and metis - maybe - it's not explained to that level of detail.

This would suggest broad-scale that upwards of ~100,000 "aboriginals" live along the Fraser. If we divide 270K by 100K - we get 2.7 fish per aboriginal. I personally eat way more than 2.7 fish per year myself.

No, the catch is NOT divided evenly - and yes, we could spend hours tracking down the population of the ~100 FN bands along the Fraser - but rough-scale - those are the numbers.

The 276K is actually a small number compared to the average escapement to the fraser, and a small number in regards to fish protein needs per aboriginal.

OK - next question - what are the "conservation targets" for the Fraser by species? Anyone know?

I see that 1,414,000 sockeye have come-in past the various capture fisheries and the run size is predicted to be 2,657,000. Did the 276K captured by FN fisheries have a significant negative effect on conservation? how does that 276K compare to other capture fisheries along the way from AK?

Comments?
 
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it's 10.4% of the projected escapement. It'd be interesting in seeing how much of the weaker stocks were taken in order to assess conservation concerns.
 
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it's 10.4% of the projected escapement. It'd be interesting in seeing how much of the weaker stocks were taken in order to assess conservation concerns.

Wow.

Putting it into context and comparing it to another impact?

Where are the cries of, "Deflection"!!

Stick to the matter at hand! LOL!
 
agentaqua, It's about conservation of a depleted run at this point. I disagree with your figure of 100,000 FN dependent upon sockeye in the fraser watershed as well. It's no where near that. Have you spent much time on this river? I have and unless they are hiding somewhere off reserve the population is much lower than that.

Over 270k sockeye have been caught, there are also chinook, coho and pink available for harvest. For the stocks to have a chance at rebuilding everyone needs to do their part.

We are dealing with environmental factors such as low water levels and high water temperatures which will have a strong negative impact on the survivability of the spawning sockeye in the Fraser this season. Coupled with the lower than forecast return this could spell disaster for an already depleted run.

BC Rec and BC commercial fisheries took 0 sockeye this year. The FN got at least 270k. Let the remaining fish spawn and hope enough make it through the poor river conditions to have a decent run 4 years from now.
 
CK: Escapement is NOT an "impact", rather it's a "metric" - one used along with estimates of total catch in order to determine TAC and various fisheries management benchmarks.

"Escapement" is the number of fish that make it back to their spawning grounds that "escaped" the various capture fisheries, and predators, and diseases from fish farms (threw that one in especially for you CK).

"TAC" is Total Allowable Catch.

TAC is determined by looking at total return estimates (add escapement and total catch together), and then allowing for a certain percentage of "take" within all fisheries on the return estimate for that stock. Certain "weak stocks" are subject to a lowered exploitation rate (from 0-20%) where more robust stocks are allowed to be harvested at higher rates (20-50%). It's all about "risk adverse" managent, using the precautionary approach, WSP benchmarks and in-season management.

I could have done that - so let's do that now. Total in-river run size is calculated by adding together escapement AND in-river capture fisheries. In this case, it would be 2,657,000 PLUS 277,00 which equals 2,933,000. The in-river exploitation rate would be 277,000 divided by 2,933,000 or only 9.4%.

For the more robust stocks - this is a small in-river exploitation rate. For the more "at risk" stocks - this may or may not allow full conservation needs to be met as each species/stock has certain conservation targets that relate to numbers of spawners released to the spawning areas.

Here's some of the problems inherent in fisheries management:

1/ Each stock has a definate spawning and migration timing that is reasonably predictable, but may shift by a few weeks in any year,
2/ Sometimes weaker stocks intermingle with stronger stocks when migrating,
3/ Accurately determining exact timing of both robust and weaker stocks requires in-season management informed by DNA analysis and test fishing,
4/ Most fisheries take some portion of both weak and robust stocks, but the intent is to close those fisheries during the passage of weak stocks,
5/ You won't really know what came-in for the year until the run is over,
6/ Gill nets are made-up ahead of time to target a certain species, and have a certain mesh size, colour, hanging ratio and depth that might not fish appropriately for other species and sizes,
7/ fish species come into a river and migrate upstream in a certain dependable order, but larger rivers may have an assortment of species and runs that co-migrate in the mainstem fisheries but branch off to the tribs, and
8/ Capture numbers in the marine and in-river sports, sports-commercial, commercial, economic, and FSC fisheries may be inaccurate, unknown, or late in arriving. The idea is to add all of these numbers together in-season, and manage for a total TAC.

This list is far from exclusive or complete.

As far as the Fraser River goes - fisheries managers lump sockeye stocks wrt run timing, and mange each set of run timings as a single management unit with their own conservation targets and exploitation rates.

It's complicated. Just saying the run is "depressed" (which it may be or not) and claiming 276K is too big a number really doesn't give you the tools to assess anything. What stocks comprised that 276K is really the key to understanding potential impacts. Seeing what landed-up on the spawning grounds is the key to seeing any realized impact.

Trendsetter: if you have more accurate numbers - then lets use them. Don't forget FN have big extended families that often live off reserve, but are on the books of that FN; and the catch is processed, saved, and doled-out to them too - no matter where they currently live.
 
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I could have done that - so let's do that now. Total in-river run size is calculated by adding together escapement AND in-river capture fisheries. In this case, it would be 2,657,000 PLUS 277,00 which equals 2,933,000. The in-river exploitation rate would be 277,000 divided by 2,933,000 or only 9.4%.

Where are you getting 2.7 million from? Are you taking about in-season run size estimates or total run size determined post-season? Near Final spawning ground escapement estimates for 2013 are not complete, so I am curious about the validity of your calculation. If you are talking about in-season run size estimates then you can’t simply add the number of fish you hope make it to the spawning grounds to meet escapement targets with legal catch estimate upstream of Mission. Illegal fishing, catch monitoring estimation bias, bias at Mission hydroacoustic facility, biases in escapement enumeration and en-route mortality all have to be taken into account. That is why additional fish are added through management adjustments.

OK - next question - what are the "conservation targets" for the Fraser by species? Anyone know?

I see that 1,414,000 sockeye have come-in past the various capture fisheries and the run size is predicted to be 2,657,000. Did the 276K captured by FN fisheries have a significant negative effect on conservation? how does that 276K compare to other capture fisheries along the way from AK?

The number or fish past Mission and the number of fish enumerated on the spawning grounds are subject to scrutiny post-season. There can (and have been) estimation errors in between Mission and the spawning grounds which includes in-river catch (i.e. reported, unreported and illegal harvest). There is also possible en-route loss to consider as well as this being a Pink year in the Fraser (however, Qualark helps out with that to some extent). Thus, to say that 1.4 Million Sockeye has come in past the various capture fisheries needs to be taken with caution. Right now we do not even know how many of those 1.4 million plus fish past Mission represents real fish. In addition, because we are still in the in-season phase, the run size that is estimated is subject to change if the Panel deems it is necessary – it can go up or it can come down. In the post-season, run size adjustments may be made to the total run size account for this difference between estimates (Potential Spawning Escapement minus Upstream Spawning Escapement Enumeration).

As for what are the conservation targets for the Fraser by species the best place to look for that preseason would likely be the Integrated Fisheries Management Plans.
 
We are dealing with environmental factors such as low water levels and high water temperatures which will have a strong negative impact on the survivability of the spawning sockeye in the Fraser this season. Coupled with the lower than forecast return this could spell disaster for an already depleted run.

BC Rec and BC commercial fisheries took 0 sockeye this year. The FN got at least 270k. Let the remaining fish spawn and hope enough make it through the poor river conditions to have a decent run 4 years from now.

I agree. It seems like the Fraser Panel and DFO are damned if they do and damned if they do not take this action. Not easy and certainly not popular decisions. I sympathize with those would like to harvest Sockeye, but I am certain stakeholders would all agree that they do not want fewer Sockeye showing up that what we saw in 2009 either. Let’s get more fish on the spawning grounds and pray for cooler temperatures.
 
Where are you getting 2.7 million from? Are you taking about in-season run size estimates
Yes - the former - the most up-do-date run size estimates from DFO. As more fish come-in, that number gets redefined and more accurate. Looks like just over half of the predicted run size is in now, so that 2.9M estimate will be reasonably accurate - more so than the pre-season forecast, anyways. Since there is no commercial fishery this year on the Fraser, and now the river has been closed to all fishing due to elevated water temps - one would expect that (except for possible poaching or prespawn die-off) that estimate of total run size would turn out to be reasonably accurate - or as accurate as it can be for the present, given what biases you have outlined above. We can revisit this thread in a few weeks with more updated data, and late December (when DFO does all of the "final" adjustments) again with further updated numbers.

I am also in agreement with your last post re: water temps, conservation and praying. To be clear - I am NOT advocating for NOT managing for conservation needs - rather I am trying to elevate the dialogue to identify what those conservation needs are, and the complexities in assessing those needs. I think we are successfully having that dialogue here on this thread, with your help and input, along with others. Thank you all for that. I think for everyone interested in conservation of a resource we all love and respect - it is an informative and rewarding thread.
 
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for those who wish to spend copious amount of time reading-up:

South Coast Salmon 2013 IFMP
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/fm-gp/mplans/2013/smon/smon-sc-cs-2013-eng.pdf

p.86: Fraser River sockeye are managed on the basis of the four management groups (Early Stuart Run, Early Summer Run, Summer Run, and Late Run)...

p.89:The Lower and Upper Fishery Reference Points describe the shape of the Total Allowable Mortality (TAM) rule for each management aggregate. The Upper Fishery Reference Point describes the run size above which the TAM plateaus at the TAM cap of 60% and the escapement target is set at 40% of the run size. The Lower Fishery Reference point is 40% of the Upper Fishery Reference Point and describes the numerical escapement target when the run size is between the Upper and Lower Fishery Reference Points. In addition, when the run size is below the Lower Fishery Reference Point, the escapement target is the run size, but it is recognized that there will be some low incidental harvest in the form of low abundance exploitation rates (or LAER, previously called “ER floors”) from fisheries directed on comigrating stocks and species (see “incidental harvest” section, below).

As in recent years, the LAER for Early Stuart, Early Summer, and Summer Run timing groups is 10% and 20% for Late Run and Cultus Lake sockeye. If the return of Late-run sockeye is at or above the p75 forecast, consideration will be given to increasing the Late-run exploitation rate up to 30%.


Assuming I am reading this correctly - Looks like the 9.4% exploitation rate is just under the LAER for Early Stuart, Early Summer, and Summer Run timing groups stocks, and substantially under the 20% LAER exploitation rate for late-run and Cultus Lake sockeye stocks, with the information we have at hand, currently...

Certainly, it is critical to know what stock groupings were harvested in the 127K fishery, before assessing potential for impacts. Because as it stands - we cannot assign the catch to Early Stuart, Early Summer, Summer Run, Late Run or Cultus Lake timing groups stocks. One would assume, however - since this fishery happened just before the middle of the run, that only small amounts (if any) of Late Run or Cultus Lake timing groups stocks were captured in this fishery.

Pacific Salmon Treaty
http://www.psc.org/pubs/Treaty/Treaty.pdf

p.76: 3(c)...The agreed Fraser River Aboriginal Fishery Exemption is the actual catch of Fraser River sockeye harvested in both the inriver and marine area Aboriginal Fisheries, up to 400,000 sockeye annually.

p.76: 3(d)For computing TAC by stock management groupings, the AFE shall be allocated to management groups as follows: The Early Stuart sockeye exemption shall be up to 20% of the Fraser River Aboriginal Fishery Exemption (AFE), and the remaining balance of the latter exemption shall be based on the average proportional distribution for the most recent three cycles and modified annually as required to address concerns for Fraser River sockeye stocks and other species and as otherwise agreed by the Fraser River Panel...

Pre-season run size forecasts for Fraser River Sockeye (Oncorhynchus nerka) and Pink (O. gorbuscha) salmon in 2013
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/Csas-sccs/publications/resdocs-docrech/2012/2012_145-eng.pdf

p.iv: Summer Run stocks, particularly Chilko & Quesnel, contribute 78% to the total return forecast, whereas Late Run (12%), Early Summer (5%) and Early Stuart Run stocks (4%) each contribute considerably less. The Harrison forecast for 2013 is particularly uncertain, and the return for this stock could fall outside the forecast range. The total forecasted 2013 Fraser Sockeye return largely falls (up to a three in four chance, based on past observations) below the cycle average (8.6 million), due to the below average 2009 and 2008 brood year escapements for most stocks.

Conversely, there is a one out of four chance the return will be above the cycle average, if Fraser Sockeye productivity falls at the high end of past observations. If low productivity conditions resume, returns could be considerably lower than forecast, based on a sensitivity analysis forecast that ranges from 523,000 to 5,419,000 at the 10% to 90% probability level
 
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Yes - the former - the most up-do-date run size estimates from DFO. As more fish come-in, that number gets redefined and more accurate. Looks like just over half of the predicted run size is in now, so that 2.9M estimate will be reasonably accurate - more so than the pre-season forecast, anyways. Since there is no commercial fishery this year on the Fraser, and now the river has been closed to all fishing due to elevated water temps - one would expect that (except for possible poaching or prespawn die-off) that estimate of total run size would turn out to be reasonably accurate - or as accurate as it can be for the present, given what biases you have outlined above. We can revisit this thread in a few weeks with more updated data, and late December (when DFO does all of the "final" adjustments) again with further updated numbers.

I am also in agreement with your last post re: water temps, conservation and praying. To be clear - I am NOT advocating for NOT managing for conservation needs - rather I am trying to elevate the dialogue to identify what those conservation needs are, and the complexities in assessing those needs. I think we are successfully having that dialogue here on this thread, with your help and input, along with others. Thank you all for that. I think for everyone interested in conservation of a resource we all love and respect - it is an informative and rewarding thread.

In-season run-size estimates are produced by the Pacific Salmon Commission – not DFO. DFO is responsible for pre-season forecasting. You are correct that as fish come in the uncertainty becomes smaller; however, both forecasting and inseason run-size estimates utilize models – and they all have uncertainty. Inseason run size estimates have uncertainty in catch estimates and uncertainty in how that catch is assigned to different stocks; the 50% migration timing (a very important aspect to inseason models); uncertainty with regards to catchability; and other observer error. Once the peak of the run is observed the inseason estimates do become better – more accurate than the preseason forecast. Forecasting gets a bum-rap, but that is primarily because many people do not understand what they are for. DFO is required under the Pacific Salmon Treaty to provide the Fraser River Panel with pre-season forecasts of run-size, run-timing and diversion rate. Initial fish plans by stakeholders need a starting point for discussion. Forecasting provides an initial plan (including escapement goals) to start from which his refined more inseason.

When river temperatures are the way they are this can cause even more uncertainty because now we are not certain how many of those Sockeye will make it to the spawning grounds or die en-route. Management adjustments (MA) are made to add fish to the escapement goal to ensure those goals are met. The higher the MA – the more it is assumed that less Sockeye will make it back to the spawning grounds. Those added fish (in addition to those counted past Mission) may or may not represent “real fish” so that is why people need to be cautious when interpreting inseason numbers. Run strength is more applicable (in my opinion). Consequently, it is not uncommon in post-season accounting to have more fish through Mission than what is on the spawning grounds. This is why interested parties (DFO and the PSC) need to look at the DBEs post season and see what run size adjustments are needed. Do more fish have to be added because of enroute mortality? Can environmental monitoring data help prove some clarity to those questions? Those are just of some of things that are considered.
 
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