Aluminum boat builders - why have they become so greedy???

[Rain City]

I would crank my prices through the roof as well if I had a lineup out the door. If demand drops I’m sure prices will follow.

Podding old boats isn’t a bad option but it’s also getting close to not worth it in a lot of cases. Engines have gone up a lot . My boat cost me around 70k to put twins on 3.5 years ago. That’s hull cost, glass, pod, new 200s, two sets of digital controls, install and electronics. I see old Commanders for sale in the 30k range. If you buy that and pod it, you’ll be way upside down. You need to basically steal the thing.

You'll never get the money out, but you'll never get that setup for that price. What a conundrum.

It makes sense if it's your forever (for now) boat.

 

[Brando]

I would be curious to see the actual build costs and what the profit margins are when all the dust settles.

 

[kaelc]

I would be curious to see the actual build costs and what the profit margins are when all the dust settles.

Nice thing about capitalism is when profits go up new players enter the market. More supply and competition eventually drives down profits if not prices. Between aluminum boat kits, imports and alternatives (glass, we even see wood and abs hulls) the market is “perfect” it just can take time to adjust. Right now we are adjusting our expectations and there may be a small pull back in pricing but wages are sticky on the way down and most inputs won’t reduce in cost even if the boat industry orders less.

With direct to consumer like Jaxson Craft I think we have the best chance of getting good deals but there is not the economies of scale a Brunswick or King Fisher would have. Check the profit margin for them? I think they may be publicly traded.

 

[A-a-Ron]

You'll never get the money out, but you'll never get that setup for that price. What a conundrum.

It makes sense if it's your forever (for now) boat.

My crystal ball sees a pod in your future within a year and a half.

 

[Drewski Canuck]

The problem is that a Canadian Boat Builder can ship across the Border and take his $1.00 C dollar and get a $1.30 C Dollar in return. That is how bad our exchange rate is when you try and compete with US Buyers. The Canadian Costs really are a fraction compared to what the US has to pay for materials and labour because of the Canadian Pesos.


So why would a Canadian Boat Builder give it away in Canada when they sell like hotcakes in the US? As for the premium priced US hulls, sell it in Canada and let the Canadians pay the Exchange, Customs, AND Shipping. Now you have a huge increase in pricing and Canada is such a small market that no one really cares if we buy or not.

Drewski

 

[Aquaholic]

The problem is that a Canadian Boat Builder can ship across the Border and take his $1.00 C dollar and get a $1.30 C Dollar in return. That is how bad our exchange rate is when you try and compete with US Buyers. The Canadian Costs really are a fraction compared to what the US has to pay for materials and labour because of the Canadian Pesos.


So why would a Canadian Boat Builder give it away in Canada when they sell like hotcakes in the US? As for the premium priced US hulls, sell it in Canada and let the Canadians pay the Exchange, Customs, AND Shipping. Now you have a huge increase in pricing and Canada is such a small market that no one really cares if we buy or not.

Drewski

If I follow your point, we saw something like this play out in the 90's with luxury yachts (mostly gone now) where the advantage was the lower Canadian dollar. To the point where someone stood up in the house of commons and warned that using the exchange rate as your only marketing plan was not going to last.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Exactly we’re talking about a cyclical feast or famine industry

 

[Aquaholic]

Exactly we’re talking about a cyclical feast or famine industry

There was a Knowledge Network video on the luxury yacht industry here, in the hey day but not long from when it quickly dried up. Even Ted Rogers of the media company had a boat built at Crescent Beach, his launch is in the video.

 

[Bill 310]

With direct to consumer like Jaxson Craft I think we have the best chance of getting good deals but there is not the economies of scale a Brunswick or King Fisher would have. Check the profit margin for them? I think they may be publicly traded.

It was really interesting attending the boatshow this year, after having owned our Jaxoncraft for a year.

I was quite surprised at the price jump in boats . The welding on a some of the boats just from a cosmetic point of view seems to leave a lot to be desired .Painted over, and/or smothed with filler welds, were visible on some boats.

When you are buying/building a boat to your specs, it is easy to see where builders save money.

Steering wheels, compasses, and boarding laddders, were often a place noticied on first glance where less builder money is invested in these features in the similar sized production boats we saw.

Price wise, our cost last year to build was significantly less for a semi custom welded aluminum boat than the cost of what was sitting on the floor of the show,

Talking to the Breakers folks at the Suzuki booth, they said sales of the larger motors had been quite strong.

I went twice. Friday after work, and then again for a few hours Sunday morning. It didn't really feel busy / super crowded either time with more than a few emply spaces in the outer rings for booths in the walkaround..

The various government agencies and conservation groups were spread out in the outer rings. It was interesing to see how each ministry division looked after their staf, some had no booth flooring upgrade rubber matting) and some were much more worker friendly with decent places for staff to sit, good flooring to stand on, etc.

The O.C.D. in me wondered if having all these group together (Fire, CG,Environment Canada ) the variuos rescue volunteer organizations, Park Canada, etc. would have made a more interesting visitor experince


Both days a few of the Boat Operator's permiit booths were sitting empty, with just a sign.

 

[scott craven]

It won't be long before the high prices force sales to dry up and prices will start to come down.
The higher interest rates are starting to work, forcing the average consumer to opt
out of a big ticket purchase.
The new boat prices have basically excluded about 90% of the buyers leaving
10% of the very wealthy to make their deals.

 

[Rain City]

It won't be long before the high prices force sales to dry up and prices will start to come down.
The higher interest rates are starting to work, forcing the average consumer to opt
out of a big ticket purchase.
The new boat prices have basically excluded about 90% of the buyers leaving
10% of the very wealthy to make their deals.

I never thought of this until a friend had said it last night, but the high interest rates have really just made it harder for the younger generation. Home ownership, and now toy ownership, have become next to impossible to attain for the 25-45 crowd. Anyone who has a mortgage in 200k-400k range isn't really feeling the pain here. Especially because you're likely sitting on 1m-3m in equity in most areas of BC. But most people my age that I know who own a house or condo bought in the last 5-10 years, have 750k-1m+ mortgages. It's likely they never should have been approved for them either. I'm paying over 60k a year in interest alone right now. The advice I received from RBC a year and a half ago was to sign onto a variable because "we'd never see 4%-5%". Well here I am at 6% on over a million. I'll spend the next few years going backwards at best. My banner years allowed me to get into a 300k boat for 100k, but I'm sure you're all sick of hearing how that turned out for me lol. More like an eventual 300k by a thousand cuts. And I'm one of the lucky ones.

 

[Fisher_dude]

This was just before I bought my boat in 2019. These prices are in USD as well.

 

[Samnjoe]

My Kingfisher 2825 was purchased new in 06 for $121K.
The original owner put $13K worth of electronics in it including main autopilot and TR-1 on the kicker.
I bought it in 09 with 85 hours on it for $89K.
1300 hours now and going strong.
Wouldn't even consider buying a new one at today's prices.
I will keep it until all the welds crack and it sinks (still waiting for that first crack).

 

[kaelc]

This was just before I bought my boat in 2019. These prices are in USD as well.
View attachment 89407

Here is a 24 foot likely of lower build quality done by Brunswick and for sale at basspro in Tsawassen

 

[kaelc]

My Kingfisher 2825 was purchased new in 06 for $121K.
The original owner put $13K worth of electronics in it including main autopilot and TR-1 on the kicker.
I bought it in 09 with 85 hours on it for $89K.
1300 hours now and going strong.
Wouldn't even consider buying a new one at today's prices.
I will keep it until all the welds crack and it sinks (still waiting for that first crack).

Good reminder, buddy is looking at a boat equipped with dual screens autopilot and an open array. Likely a 20k installed price these days. I think you better go fibreglass, I won’t even make you cover the difference in our trade . Great boat, back then kingfisher was more independent and likely had a better supply of labour.

Mines now pay $50 an hour for welders plus about $40 in benefits. A haul truck driver likely makes more than top fab/welders in a boat shop. Tough for other manufactures. Southern Ontario employers often want to pay less than $30 or low 30’s for an experienced welder. Crazy as the cost of everything is close to BC prices.

 

[Samnjoe]

Good reminder, buddy is looking at a boat equipped with dual screens autopilot and an open array. Likely a 20k installed price these days. I think you better go fibreglass, I won’t even make you cover the difference in our trade . Great boat, back then kingfisher was more independent and likely had a better supply of labour.

Mines now pay $50 an hour for welders plus about $40 in benefits. A haul truck driver likely makes more than top fab/welders in a boat shop. Tough for other manufactures. Southern Ontario employers often want to pay less than $30 or low 30’s for an experienced welder. Crazy as the cost of everything is close to BC prices.

Wages are all over the map these days.
I remember back when the guy that cuts my lawn made less than my lawyer.

 

[spring fever]

Moaning about prices does no good-truly going around to various manufacturers and seriously compare build quality, material quality and more importantly the builders willingness to work with you and give you what you want is what has to happen. Have very specific written wish list of what you want and need before you start talking prices. Don't forget to check when he can build it. Make a good written contract-try not to change things mid-build (it costs). Sometimes going used is the best option as has been stated. Check smaller builders-that's the way I went and I couldn't have been happier!! Did I get a bargain?? No it was fair but I got what I wanted and I was involved with the build all the way. Life is short and another year without a boat makes it shorter.!! LOL

 

[Brando]

I never thought of this until a friend had said it last night, but the high interest rates have really just made it harder for the younger generation. Home ownership, and now toy ownership, have become next to impossible to attain for the 25-45 crowd. Anyone who has a mortgage in 200k-400k range isn't really feeling the pain here. Especially because you're likely sitting on 1m-3m in equity in most areas of BC. But most people my age that I know who own a house or condo bought in the last 5-10 years, have 750k-1m+ mortgages. It's likely they never should have been approved for them either. I'm paying over 60k a year in interest alone right now. The advice I received from RBC a year and a half ago was to sign onto a variable because "we'd never see 4%-5%". Well here I am at 6% on over a million. I'll spend the next few years going backwards at best. My banner years allowed me to get into a 300k boat for 100k, but I'm sure you're all sick of hearing how that turned out for me lol. More like an eventual 300k by a thousand cuts. And I'm one of the lucky ones.

Ya I found it pretty funny when they were advertising that home prices would come down and make things more affordable. Cause qualifying for a million plus at 6%+ stress test is affordable for the younger generation…. Nope. variable or not you just got hit right away rest of the crowd will feel the same pain come renewal and once that does rates will be forced to come down they won’t have a choice.

 

[kaelc]

It was really interesting attending the boatshow this year, after having owned our Jaxoncraft for a year.

I was quite surprised at the price jump in boats . The welding on a some of the boats just from a cosmetic point of view seems to leave a lot to be desired .Painted over, and/or smothed with filler welds, were visible on some boats.

When you are buying/building a boat to your specs, it is easy to see where builders save money.

Steering wheels, compasses, and boarding laddders, were often a place noticied on first glance where less builder money is invested in these features in the similar sized production boats we saw.

Price wise, our cost last year to build was significantly less for a semi custom welded aluminum boat than the cost of what was sitting on the floor of the show,

Talking to the Breakers folks at the Suzuki booth, they said sales of the larger motors had been quite strong.

I went twice. Friday after work, and then again for a few hours Sunday morning. It didn't really feel busy / super crowded either time with more than a few emply spaces in the outer rings for booths in the walkaround..

The various government agencies and conservation groups were spread out in the outer rings. It was interesing to see how each ministry division looked after their staf, some had no booth flooring upgrade rubber matting) and some were much more worker friendly with decent places for staff to sit, good flooring to stand on, etc.

The O.C.D. in me wondered if having all these group together (Fire, CG,Environment Canada ) the variuos rescue volunteer organizations, Park Canada, etc. would have made a more interesting visitor experince


Both days a few of the Boat Operator's permiit booths were sitting empty, with just a sign.

Good to hear, Suzuki is busy, same with Mercury in Seattle. It is one thing for 100-200k boat sales to be dropping but if engine sales are dropping that would be worrisome. I was hoping to chat up Honda, but didn't see anyone other than Mercury at the show.

Hats off to the Volunteers, working a trade show is a ton of work, hats off to them but doing it for free is a whole other ball game. Good idea, if there was space it would be great to have a feature government boat and a really good booth with lots of non-profits. It's tough getting the energy up 2-3 people tucked into a corner.

Going to the boat show is great for boat math, my boats is now getting close to 300k new with taxes. It is a great investment . Unfortunately, my wife doesn't believe in boat math.

 

[Bifmalibu]

I never thought of this until a friend had said it last night, but the high interest rates have really just made it harder for the younger generation. Home ownership, and now toy ownership, have become next to impossible to attain for the 25-45 crowd. Anyone who has a mortgage in 200k-400k range isn't really feeling the pain here. Especially because you're likely sitting on 1m-3m in equity in most areas of BC. But most people my age that I know who own a house or condo bought in the last 5-10 years, have 750k-1m+ mortgages. It's likely they never should have been approved for them either. I'm paying over 60k a year in interest alone right now. The advice I received from RBC a year and a half ago was to sign onto a variable because "we'd never see 4%-5%". Well here I am at 6% on over a million. I'll spend the next few years going backwards at best. My banner years allowed me to get into a 300k boat for 100k, but I'm sure you're all sick of hearing how that turned out for me lol. More like an eventual 300k by a thousand cuts. And I'm one of the lucky ones.

ouch.