Which of the two you mean? Those ruthless, greedy, false, lying and deliberate careless and irresponsible beneficiaries of the fish farms? Or the plain dumb, brainless and bent-over supporters who even believe in the ridiculous rhetoric and backward logic of the first category?
Alexandra's trip to Norway.
- Thread starter Little Hawk
- Start date
Which of the two you mean? Those ruthless, greedy, false, lying and deliberate careless and irresponsible beneficiaries of the fish farms? Or the plain dumb, brainless and bent-over supporters who even believe in the ridiculous rhetoric and backward logic of the first category?
C
c.r.angler
Guest
There were people payed to go to that meeting. As I can't give up my source because I don't want to get him fired, I'll drop it. You and others can take or leave my word for it. Afterall, this just an online forum where we are anonomous. I will assure you however that I have spread the word to many of my peers face to face and over the phone. They will ALL take my word for it. Don't you think it's strange how many ex DFO scientists are speaking out against DFO policy? Most wait until they retire as they didn't want to end their careers and others just quit because they couldn't sleep at night. It's pretty hard to beleive that their science doesn't have an agenda when their track record shows nothing but gross mismanagment & bending to big business.
Is this stage small enough for you?
http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu102/crangler/clip_image001.jpg
This is a sockeye smolt. Look for the tiny black dots. Also, they did pass several other farms to get to this point. So, with your logic, the larger lice could have come from the other farms closer to their origin? Jervis? Not to mention others closer to where this was sampled. Also, I don't disagree that SOME of the lice could have originated from a natural source. Just not at this density, there simply isn't enough wild salmon around this time of year to breed lice to this density.
Anyways, you and anybody else can take or leave my opinion.
Little Hawk
Active Member
CR,
Nice to hear another voice on the side of cautionary logic as it applies to fisheries management and the issues around salmon farming.
One thing though: Please don't make the same mistake I did in assuming you can remain 'anonymous' on forums or that there is any security or privacy in emails. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Eyes are everywhere. I found that out the hard way...
Nice to hear another voice on the side of cautionary logic as it applies to fisheries management and the issues around salmon farming.
One thing though: Please don't make the same mistake I did in assuming you can remain 'anonymous' on forums or that there is any security or privacy in emails. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Eyes are everywhere. I found that out the hard way...
S
sockeyefry
Guest
CR,
Are they Leps or Caligus? This is an important question because it pertains to the possible source of the lice.
The only ex DFO scientists were a couple from the East coast a few years back regarding the cod. Do you know of any now?
Gee LH, getting a bit paranoid?
Are they Leps or Caligus? This is an important question because it pertains to the possible source of the lice.
The only ex DFO scientists were a couple from the East coast a few years back regarding the cod. Do you know of any now?
Gee LH, getting a bit paranoid?
cuttlefish
Well-Known Member
Sockeyefry said;
Anyone can read the minutes from the public meeting by going to the SRD website; http://www.strathconard.ca/uploadedFiles/Notices/Minutes_Submissions/PH2_29_Minutes.pdf
Interesting public comments by the DFO scientist, S. Jones, at the top of page 5. He claims that in the lab pink salmon develop the ability to "cast off" sea lice very quickly. Pink Salmon?! In my fishing experience, pink salmon are sea lice magnets. As adults, they have by far the most sea lice per pound than any of the Pacific salmonids.
Can't help but wonder if that DFO scientist paid his own way to Sayward. I'm sure hoping the taxpayer didn't foot the bill.
Anyone can read the minutes from the public meeting by going to the SRD website; http://www.strathconard.ca/uploadedFiles/Notices/Minutes_Submissions/PH2_29_Minutes.pdf
Interesting public comments by the DFO scientist, S. Jones, at the top of page 5. He claims that in the lab pink salmon develop the ability to "cast off" sea lice very quickly. Pink Salmon?! In my fishing experience, pink salmon are sea lice magnets. As adults, they have by far the most sea lice per pound than any of the Pacific salmonids.
Can't help but wonder if that DFO scientist paid his own way to Sayward. I'm sure hoping the taxpayer didn't foot the bill.
Simon Jones is the same DFO researcher who's field work was stopped before the impacts of motile lice were observed on the juvenile salmon (when the lice were attached, smaller and less lethal).
A certain percentage of sea lice on all salmon die due to a number of reasons, including host response, decreases in ambient salinity, etc. Some salmon species (esp. coho) are somewhat better at throwing-off a larger percentage of their lice, especially when the lice are in their early stages of attachment, when the host salmon skin can envelop over the attached lice.
Once these remaining lice become motile on the salmon, their impacts increase, as they eat more skin and blood.
So the real test of lice lethality is how many motile lice are on a salmon per gram of size of their host. Smaller juvenile salmon (such as pinks) can take way less of a load.
Anyone who does not acknowledge and state these obvious and understood issues is trying to deflect the focus of whether or not the remaining lice will eventually kill the smaller pink juveniles and thereby cause population-level impacts.
If a juvenile pink salmon is infected with a lice load 11 times what it can survive (from a fish-farming area like the Broughtons), and ends-up successfully throwing-off enough lice so that the lice load is only 5 times what it can take and survive - does it matter? The fish is already dead.
I doubt if Jones spoke of this.
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
I have a question, if the "fish farms" are so healthy and great why doesn't Norway have them all over their fjords? Maybe the labor is cheaper in BC, or is it that the BC and the feds turn a blind eye to the fact there are major issues about this type of "factory farming" that the Norwegians are not willing to accept in their own backyard.
It seems to me that if this was so damned good that they would not be sneaking it into other unsuspecting countries.[8D]
It seems to me that if this was so damned good that they would not be sneaking it into other unsuspecting countries.[8D]
Little Hawk
Active Member
Gun:
I met a fellow from Norway last year at a fish-farming conference up near Campbell River; his name was Kurt and he was (is) the Pres. of an organization - the 'Green Warriors' fighting the salmon farming industry. As we were both pretty much the only hunter/fisherman at the conference, we hit it off pretty good. He was quite a character and I will never forget him; especially how his English was quite good and he liked to say 'fu(k' a lot during his speeches.
He showed me a map of Norway depicting the locations of all the net-pens on their coastline, which was nearly the entire length of it except for one small area to the north (if memory serves), a marine park or something, which accounted for somewhere around 10% of Norways' coast left free of this menace.
I met a fellow from Norway last year at a fish-farming conference up near Campbell River; his name was Kurt and he was (is) the Pres. of an organization - the 'Green Warriors' fighting the salmon farming industry. As we were both pretty much the only hunter/fisherman at the conference, we hit it off pretty good. He was quite a character and I will never forget him; especially how his English was quite good and he liked to say 'fu(k' a lot during his speeches.
He showed me a map of Norway depicting the locations of all the net-pens on their coastline, which was nearly the entire length of it except for one small area to the north (if memory serves), a marine park or something, which accounted for somewhere around 10% of Norways' coast left free of this menace.
S
sockeyefry
Guest
Agent,
Have you done such studies? You sure speak as if you have done the research.
LH, Your "fish farming" conference near CR was actually held in Strathcona lodge, and was a weekend symposium on how to legally and illegally disrupt salmon farms during their rightful course of business. The fellow you speak of has been arrested several times in Norway for impeding and trespassing.
Have you done such studies? You sure speak as if you have done the research.
LH, Your "fish farming" conference near CR was actually held in Strathcona lodge, and was a weekend symposium on how to legally and illegally disrupt salmon farms during their rightful course of business. The fellow you speak of has been arrested several times in Norway for impeding and trespassing.
Whether I have - or have not - personally done these (or similar) studies as Simon Jones is irrelevant in the context of the published and accepted science in the field of sea lice and sea lice mortality on salmon smolts.
No matter who's name is on the published works - the issues (that I stated above vis-a-vis lice mortality and host size) are already published (look them up yourself, assuming you haven't already and you're not just trolling); and those studies are already accepted by the greater science community, and more specifically those who work in those areas.
Why do you think Simon Jones stopped his study before most of the lice on his fish got big enough to harm the salmon?
You don't really propose to defend this obvious logic gap, do you?
Little Hawk
Active Member
Sockey:
Thanks for clarifying where the conference happened and what took place there; for a minute there I thought it was all a dream...
What a pathetic attempt to vilify a guy with some balls who is passionate about conservation issues and wild-things and wild-places.
Clearly, you have no-class dude!
Who let you in here? Something is very wrong with this system...
Thanks for clarifying where the conference happened and what took place there; for a minute there I thought it was all a dream...
What a pathetic attempt to vilify a guy with some balls who is passionate about conservation issues and wild-things and wild-places.
Clearly, you have no-class dude!
Who let you in here? Something is very wrong with this system...
S
sockeyefry
Guest
Lots of people have passion for the environment, but they go about it the proper way, not through public disobedience. You and the anti's are like spoiled children who can't get their way so they scream louder and make up wild stories to get attention.
Salmon farms are not the source of wild salmon population reductions. There have not been any population effects documented by DFO as a result of farm presence. I am safe in stating this because there has been no population of wild salmon which have been eradicated by farming acrtivities on the west coast. There are lots which have been reduced by commercial salmon fishing activities and or by poor land use practises. Why don't you direct your passion against the real culprits which have harmed your precious salmon?
BTW you brought the conference up and mentioned how what a great guy he is
Salmon farms are not the source of wild salmon population reductions. There have not been any population effects documented by DFO as a result of farm presence. I am safe in stating this because there has been no population of wild salmon which have been eradicated by farming acrtivities on the west coast. There are lots which have been reduced by commercial salmon fishing activities and or by poor land use practises. Why don't you direct your passion against the real culprits which have harmed your precious salmon?
BTW you brought the conference up and mentioned how what a great guy he is
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