A Kechika River Adventure

Funny how everyone has an opinion on someone else's lifestyle choices. Even funnier coming from a guy trying to fight the closer of the west coast fin fish for the endangered killer wales. Got to love the double standards people tend to have like my **** dont stink.

"That map if accurate is insane. Somebody should add the current otter point to east point closure on there as well to paint a clearer picture of how much of the coast they are proposing to shut down.

I commented last time, didn't even get a response. The comments are a procedural matter only - they don't care.

GDW, Jul 4, 2018 "

GDW maybe keep your fingers off the keyboard if you think your better than someone else because you can always stop fishing so those poor whales can survive.
 
The Mystery Bullet

Here are a complete set of pictures of the bullet fired from my rifle which we recovered from the back of the moose's neck:



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KSUMTIu.jpg



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The top cartridge is loaded with a Nosler Partition, the bottom with another "Mystery Projectile"
No apparent visible difference.

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Another view of the same, Nosler to the Right.
Only difference is the primer type.

msSgRPR.jpg



From the top two pictures it is obvious (as was pointed out by a sharp eye on another forum) that it cannot be a Nosler Partition (which I thought it was).

For comparison, here is a picture of a Nosler Partition:

NoslerPartition.png


The important thing to note here is that the Partition has NO copper covering the base of the bullet. When viewed from the rear, you will always see the lead center due to the type of construction. That is not the case for the bullet which struck the moose.

Confused over this, I sent off a message to my Father, as we used to handload together for a rather lengthy period of time, and a lot of that was for the 300 Weatherby & 300 H&H magnums. The following is his reply:

"Once upon a time Nosler sold a rather lightly constructed bullet they called a Solid Base Boat Tail. It did have a solid base and an exposed lead tip. Some people may have used them for hunting but I never did. They were a very accurate target bullet however and I used them almost

exclusively for initial sighting in. You also shot them a lot when you were engaged in long range competition shooting with the 300 Weatherby.
Later they added a plastic tip to this bullet and changed the box it was sold in only sightly. The words Balistic Tip appeared below the words Solid Base Boat Tail.
Still later they changed the box it was sold in completely. Solid Base Boat Tail was dropped and it became just Ballistic Tip. They may be somewhat more sturdily constructed now as it says on the box that they are hunting bullets. I did shoot an antelope with one of these a couple of years ago. He was facing me at about 100 yards. the bullet hit in mid chest and exited just behind the ribs....never hitting any bone. I still use these for sighting in.
My guess is that your bullet was the Solid Base Boat Tail. Your pictures look like it may have a boat tail although I cant tell for certain
the moose was far enough away that the bullet didn't disintegrate. But the extreme mushrooming(pretty as it is) prevented greater penetration.
I still have all of the examples mentioned. I will send pic in due course."


Under a magnifying glass I did determine that the bullet in question was a boat tail. That was distorted due to impact, but some of the angle, and the ring where it goes full diameter are still present. I will post the pictures Dad sends if anyone is interested.

So it turns out that I had several of these in my kit when we went up North. Thought they were Partitions, as that's all I have had on hand for a great many years now. Good thing Dad still has one hell of a memory well into his eighties!! Don't know if I would have ever figured it out without him!

Thankfully the few I have of these were loaded with a different manufacturer's primer, and the color is different from all the rest I have on hand. Carefully set aside now, they will be used for what they were designed for, placing neat little holes in paper!

Had that been what I thought it was, the moose would not have moved another inch.

Lesson Learned!!

Mystery Solved!
Cheers.gif


Cheers,
Nog
 
Nog,

First off I really hope you put pen to paper one day of your life's journeys as you are a remarkable storyteller. I can't think of anyone who has such a passion for life and adventure as you and by doing so it may propel the next generations to seek out their own.

From a non-hunter, I find the comment about looking in the mirror particularly offensive as it is your choice, within the rules, to do whatever you want regarding the taking of an animal and understand it is only a very small part of the overall experience the individual has with the outdoors.

Keep the old body greased up and look forward to your post from your next year's adventures.
 
Excellent read, thanks. Time goes so fast, even faster in the bush it seams, to think its another years wait to go back up= hurts. Some years ago I had some "trouble" with partitions, switched to accubond's and all problems went away, at least for me, many critters had more problems with staying on their feet.... Still using them solely in all calibers. Now to get after those sneaky blacktails.

Thanks again for the great story Nog.

HM
 
I was there to try and bring home a little more sustenance for the family.
The Grizz was in fact decimating the survival of both mountain sheep and mountain goats in that area.
Hell of a large difference.

Perhaps you should look in the mirror as you suggest, and determine just why it is you fish? Assuming you actually do that is... :rolleyes:

One in every crowd it seems... :eek:

Nog
This is a great story on a number of fronts .. from the amazing size and scope of province, to the amazing scenery and wildlife .. thanks for sharing
As you have opened the door about hunting "the grizz" I feel obligated to offer my own personal thoughts on this issue
Sheep, moose, elk, bears and wolves have co-habitated together for thousands of years. If an animal is being decimated we have to ask what has changed in their environment. As the APEX predator, MAN has a key role to play in how we manage our resources to ensure they are sustainable and thriving for many years to come. The shooting of bears is short sighted and a reaction and not a solution.
As one suggestion, maybe we limit ALL big game hunting; restrict harvesting to young adults, allow mature animals to grow, survive and compete for females. which ultimately strengthens the gene pool of all these big game species ..
 
Another anti just jumped in....on an outdoor site? Must ask where you (part time) got your degree in wildlife management? Statements go against the worlds top scientists on the NAWCM success. Still love the story Nog, all was on track as usual for an experienced outdoorsman and conversationalist like yourself. Now rut is starting, no time for SFBC at this the best time of the year to be in the Island hills, still have 3 deer tags to fill. Maybe I will be able to continue this years deer killer success going on the Island.

HM
 
it's always interesting how people who don't like an alternative view jump in with their Trump tactics .. I am far from anti hunting or fishing, and my degree in wildlife mgmt is from the same school as those who promote grizzly killing, however just a different perspective
If you're hunting to fill the freezer, why does it have to be with a trophy ? And if bears are decimating the population, wouldn't it make more sense to find out why ? And don't we have an obligation to save our resources for future generation.. ?
Enjoy your hunt and the great outdoors
 
You claim to have a degree in Wildlife Management?
Really?
From what school might I ask?

I actually do have degrees in both wildlife & fisheries management.
And I know a great many others who hold similar or the same.
None of them would ever be so confused as to ask the types of questions you posed on this forum:

... Sheep, moose, elk, bears and wolves have co-habitated together for thousands of years. If an animal is being decimated we have to ask what has changed in their environment. As the APEX predator, MAN has a key role to play in how we manage our resources to ensure they are sustainable and thriving for many years to come. The shooting of bears is short sighted and a reaction and not a solution.

If you were trained in wildlife management, you should understand that every single species on this planet has been effected one way or another by us and our actions. Chiefly most are effected in a negative manner as we consume their habitats, winter range etc etc at an ever increasing rate. Thus, there is no such thing as a "natural balance" as your post so blithely suggests. In fact, there never really was a balance as most understand that descriptor, but rather cycles of various levels of booms followed by cycles of busts for the vast majority of populations.

The purpose of wildlife management today is to try and strike a balance between the various populations, and us, in light of ever increasing pressures on those populations. We largely caused the imbalances, and therefore it is up to us to utilize the best science possible to try and alleviate that to the extent we can.

Managing predators is very much a part of that puzzle, including bears. When afforded blanket protection (as has been foolishly done in the case of BC & Alberta Grizzlies) there is usually a reasonably swift response as the populations increase in an unchecked manner. Given the amount of damage predators (including bears) can inflict on ungulate populations, it is not surprising that under these conditions, those ungulate populations will suffer. The observations I made on the hunt described previously mesh with this synopsis perfectly.

Many pretend to understand the dynamics of wildlife populations, and the management thereof. What most of the armchair crowd fail to recognize is that every single action we take has ramifications for the whole. And in the case of predators, that effect can be swift, and if unanswered, very long lasting indeed.

It will not take overly long for many of BC's ungulate populations to indicate the signs that they simply will not be able to stand up to the increased pressure affording blanket protection to predators causes. Hopefully we will recognize that before the situation becomes critical for most, and take steps to once again properly manage bears etc by means of the best science available. And yes btw, that often includes the removal of individuals via hunting and shooting. My opinion is that utilizing proper, legally sanctioned hunting as a management tool is far superior to having to engage government employees to deal with the issues as they arise as "problems".

Obviously your mileage may vary...

Cheers,
Nog
 
Thanks Nog, exactly as I thought. Wonder if they the other biologists that are arguing PETA facts represented Canada at CITES as you have, or even know what it is? Or have seen first hand in as many countries as I have? Part Time your post screams no degree in wildlife management, in 2001 some of the worlds top G Bear scientists did exactly as you stated and worked for years to get the answers to your stated question, just the NDP/Green fools with the power decided to ignore all this and manage BC wildlife by emotion (Horgans words). Anyone who has worldly wildlife knowledge fully understands how that works. This is not my view, opinion or as you say Trump tactics but real stated facts, you just need a little real world education. Read some literature that is not paid for by anti's or hunters. Worlds wildlife management is not that hard if you remove emotions, feelings and propaganda, and use the best science available with action on recommendations.

HM
 
@part time if you would like to discuss conservation, fishery politics and management, please take your argument to that section of the forum. This particular thread is about being awesome and having a memorable trip.
Rant over.
 
Bit of an update on this one...

...I wasn't going to shoot just "any" bear this trip! In fact that tag has a date with a rather large bruin, perhaps it may even top last year's Monster, that is frequenting one of my local hunting areas right now...

Happy I didn't touch the trigger on that one.
The Big Boy that waited for me back at home was every bit as good as I thought he might be. Took a little effort, but eventually he wandered home with me. Well worth the wait on that tag!!

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I am still struggling along with the videos to attach to this one.
Frustrating, I am usually pretty savvy when it comes to figuring software out.
Not so much in this case, but rest assured, I will get it done and be posting them up here... eventually...

Thoughts of next year may have to wait.
A Family Reunion stateside, and a weddin' in Saskabush may preclude my involvement in another run. :(
Here's hoping the lottery is kind!!!

Cheers,
Nog
 
Geez I don't how I missed this post. I guess it was posted while we were on our hunt so it slipped by.

Heck of a write up Nog, one awesome adventure. I've heard a few guys talk about this area and have been invited a couple times on hunts into the area but have passed them up as my falls are spent with my boys hunting so it just wouldn't work out.

By the looks of the launch site it's no secret lol, but it's a big area I'm sure the odd time one would see another group it would be an inviting site, especially if one had issues.

Again I really enjoyed the read Nog, well done on the hunt and the report.
 
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