Seaspanker
Active Member
So , will we be handed the same 2 under 77 cm rule on springs again next year ? don't know about you but i never seen any shortage of nice fish ! on the inside . any comments or predictions ?
2 under 77 cm rule again next year ? [ in area 23 ]
- Thread starter Seaspanker
- Start date
Charter Tofino
Well-Known Member
The counters are above what they predicted this year.
Libbs
Member
New bulletin emailed today. Lookin good still for adults. Trending to be way more adults than forecast. Low number of jacks tho.
OBSERVATIONS:
Through September 23, a total of 43,704 adult coho, 2984 coho jacks, 14,672 adult Chinook, 459 Chinook jacks, 88,925 adult sockeye, and 93,507 sockeye jacks are estimated to have passed through the Stamp falls fishway. Through September 21, A total of 9607 adult coho, 651 coho jacks, 6 adult Chinook, 121,484 adult sockeye, and 332,135 sockeye jacks are estimated to have passed through the Sproat falls fishway.
Since September 17, daily escapement counts through the Stamp Falls fishway ranged between 361 and 966 adult Chinook, and 1093 and 2255 adult coho. Adult sockeye daily escapement since September 17 ranged between 0 and 4 at the Stamp falls fishway and between 0 and 18 at the Sproat fishway.
River temperatures have decreased in the past few days and over the past week have ranged between 19.4 and 21.2oC at the Sproat fishway (Figure 4). Temperature data from the Stamp Falls fishway is currently unavailable because the HOBO environmental monitoring system is experiencing technical difficulties. The discharge rate is moderate.
Note: Salmon escapement estimates in this bulletin are preliminary, based on an initial digital video review.
OBSERVATIONS:
Through September 23, a total of 43,704 adult coho, 2984 coho jacks, 14,672 adult Chinook, 459 Chinook jacks, 88,925 adult sockeye, and 93,507 sockeye jacks are estimated to have passed through the Stamp falls fishway. Through September 21, A total of 9607 adult coho, 651 coho jacks, 6 adult Chinook, 121,484 adult sockeye, and 332,135 sockeye jacks are estimated to have passed through the Sproat falls fishway.
Since September 17, daily escapement counts through the Stamp Falls fishway ranged between 361 and 966 adult Chinook, and 1093 and 2255 adult coho. Adult sockeye daily escapement since September 17 ranged between 0 and 4 at the Stamp falls fishway and between 0 and 18 at the Sproat fishway.
River temperatures have decreased in the past few days and over the past week have ranged between 19.4 and 21.2oC at the Sproat fishway (Figure 4). Temperature data from the Stamp Falls fishway is currently unavailable because the HOBO environmental monitoring system is experiencing technical difficulties. The discharge rate is moderate.
Note: Salmon escapement estimates in this bulletin are preliminary, based on an initial digital video review.
albernifisher
Well-Known Member
Any more updates on the escapement?
Those last numbers are very encouraging. It would be nice to have some excess for once. I know I for one would support this slot for the next ten years if all other fisheries were closed on them (like now) and we could get back to the kind of numbers I have heard of in the canal in the 80's 90's. Sure wish I was around during those times, and I personally would be willing to take BIG short term sacrifices to get back to anything close to how it used to be.
Jencourt
Well-Known Member
SophiaB:
I believe a little research would show that those numbers from the 80's and early 90's was the result of a few years of aggressive work and high output by Robertson creek hatchery. Sadly those efforts where met with an even more aggressive commercial fishery combined with the fact we where still allowed 4 Chinook a day as sporties. Throw in the consistent decrease in funding and production from the hatchery as well as some water issues and well here we are. Every time the numbers start to look like they may be showing small signs of repair they are just hit with another bag or net.
So if numbers surpass DFO required minimums the perceived surplus will just get harvested anyway.
As I understand it this is and was at that time a put and take fishery and as long as that is so it will always be dependent on the PUT
This how I understand that fishery to work.
Don't get me wrong I support conservation for the purpose of building stocks and returning runs to more historic levels. I am just pointing out that this run has a history that needs to be considered and maybe reconsidered when developing conservation plans.
Cheers:Ray
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uclueletcharters
Well-Known Member
I heard the reason the run was expected to be low this year was due to someone snoozing at the wheel at the hatchery and a large number of fry died so the release was quite small and this year was the returning run from that unfortunate situation? Due to this they protected the run as much as possible so as many as possible would make it back to produce a good enough return for the next cycle 4 years from now. That was what I heard. If this was the case I would imagine everything will be back to normal next year. Can anyone elaborate on this at all?
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HookNSlice
Member
my bet is there is 2 more years of below average returns as ocean survival has been the ***** and this is the first year they have tried anything different (aka net pen rearing and s1 smolts). Other areas have improved survivals with these strategies so hopefully something works.
Aces
Well-Known Member
When the fish get the **** netted outta them in the inlet and river where they have no chance to escape there won't be enough spawners to propagate good runs of Chinooks. Pretty simple.
On top of that the hatchery only produces a fraction of the smolts that they did back then (some years 8-9 million Chinooks) so until these issues are addressed these runs we are experiencing now will be the norm.
On top of that the hatchery only produces a fraction of the smolts that they did back then (some years 8-9 million Chinooks) so until these issues are addressed these runs we are experiencing now will be the norm.
Ocean survival has been quite good for runs returning this year to most rivers so not sure why one would think it wasnt good for PA fish. This has been a great year for returns.
I'd guess its the double commercial fishery that's killing this run. The chinooks Lucky enough to dodge the bag fleet in the inlet can't get past the native commercial fishery in the river. I wouldn't expect much better next year but you can always hope.
I'd guess its the double commercial fishery that's killing this run. The chinooks Lucky enough to dodge the bag fleet in the inlet can't get past the native commercial fishery in the river. I wouldn't expect much better next year but you can always hope.
HookNSlice
Member
well I wouldn't throw out the term "good survival" when the survival rates are less than 1%(0.4 actually). When 5-8 years ago that number 3-6% maybe even higher.
Where are you getting that number from?
Reports from all over the island were great this year. I know personally I've never caught so many chinooks and by all accounts coho returns look great too. Not to mention tons of pinks. Maybe not as many sockeye as people hoped but considering this is the collapsed cycle not many expected a good return.
All I can tell you is what I observed and read and besides the PA run there has been no shortage of fish this year. I wish every year could be this good.
Reports from all over the island were great this year. I know personally I've never caught so many chinooks and by all accounts coho returns look great too. Not to mention tons of pinks. Maybe not as many sockeye as people hoped but considering this is the collapsed cycle not many expected a good return.
All I can tell you is what I observed and read and besides the PA run there has been no shortage of fish this year. I wish every year could be this good.
HookNSlice
Member
I agree fishing was excellent this year and it was a great coho year all around and hopefully not over yet. I was referring to the west coast Vancouver Island Chinook including somass sarita gold, bedwell, Cypre, Conuma, etc all the way up to the marble river. Predictions for these rivers were disastrous hence the 2 under 77cm and no canal fishery, and from what I have seen the returns are slightly better than expected which is great for the systems but I doubt anything is going to turn around overnight. Did anybody get any Canadian hatchery heads? because I sure didn't.
gearjammer
Member
I got one Chilliwack River Hatchery in July but it was on the inside off French Creek.
searun
Well-Known Member
Here's latest counting fence data. No question we will have more than the target return - so the predictions were slightly off in a positive way. I also observed a lot of jacks this season which are likely being counted as CN adults in the video count, and that will skew numbers in this report. There will be a more accurate count once they start the egg take...so if that is correct then the original DFO prediction may actually be spot on for Adults at 16,000.
This season is a return based on a low number of smolts released, and is the first year of a continuing trend. DFO reduced the smolt output by 2 million. The hatchery water source has reduced flow - they installed smaller intake pipes when the upgrade was completed which effectively limits the smolt production and there is NO way to increase it now. So potential solutions will most likely come from either finding other ways to increase production off site, or to increase the ocean survival.
We think the most practical option is to focus on gains that could be made by shifting release timing to help reduce predation and survival in the first weeks and transition from river to ocean in the estuary. Our local SFAC has been advocating working to improve smolt survival by net penning fish.
The rationale being we know that the Conuma hatchery fish are ocean net penned and have enjoyed a much higher ocean survival. For example, Conuma releases just over 2 million smolts, yet got a slightly larger return of adults. Whereas, Robertson released over 6 million and had far less adults. We experimented with one this year and got permission to hold 10,000 fish to prove we can do it successfully. Normally this would not happen because they need a few seasons of water data to verify if the site selected is safe for fish, so we had a lot of cooperation from DFO to let us experiment.
A few folks commenting that the various commercial fisheries have impacted the number of spawning adults, and while that is correct in that we had several disasters with the greed factor; no effective controls on number of fish commercially retained - that is not the limiting factor here. The reason being we only need around 20,000+ fish to get enough eggs to max out the hatcheries capacity....and, the natural (wild) spawn is thought to be largely ineffective (less than 5% if memory is correct).
We have had some very productive SFAC meetings and a lot of opportunity for input. I think that everyone around the table wants the best for our fishery. Everyone, including DFO has learned a lot from past mistakes and the focus now is on moving forward to figure out how to get more fish coming back rather than getting all caught up in the blame game. I would encourage those who are interested to get involved and attend the SFAC meetings to learn more and have some input.
OBSERVATIONS:
Through September 29, a total of 46,931 adult coho, 3338 coho jacks, 19,661 adult Chinook, 568 Chinook jacks, 88,928 adult sockeye, and 93,512 sockeye jacks are estimated to have passed through the Stamp falls fishway. Through mid-day September 29, a total of 12,705 adult coho, 957 coho jacks, 10 adult Chinook, 121,556 adult sockeye, and 332,402 sockeye jacks are estimated to have passed through the Sproat falls fishway.
Since September 24, daily escapement counts through the Stamp Falls fishway ranged between 116 (on September 29) and 1093 adult Chinook, and 97 (on September 29) and 710 adult coho. Adult sockeye daily escapement since September 24 was negligible (0 or 1) at the Stamp falls fishway and ranged between 2 and 18 at the Sproat fishway.
The discharge rate over the past few days is very high and river temperatures have continued to decrease. Over the past week river temperatures have ranged between 16.8 and 19.5oC at the Sproat fishway (Figure 4). Temperature data from the Stamp Falls fishway is currently unavailable because the HOBO environmental monitoring system is experiencing technical difficulties.
Note: Salmon escapement estimates in this bulletin are preliminary, based on an initial digital video review.
This season is a return based on a low number of smolts released, and is the first year of a continuing trend. DFO reduced the smolt output by 2 million. The hatchery water source has reduced flow - they installed smaller intake pipes when the upgrade was completed which effectively limits the smolt production and there is NO way to increase it now. So potential solutions will most likely come from either finding other ways to increase production off site, or to increase the ocean survival.
We think the most practical option is to focus on gains that could be made by shifting release timing to help reduce predation and survival in the first weeks and transition from river to ocean in the estuary. Our local SFAC has been advocating working to improve smolt survival by net penning fish.
The rationale being we know that the Conuma hatchery fish are ocean net penned and have enjoyed a much higher ocean survival. For example, Conuma releases just over 2 million smolts, yet got a slightly larger return of adults. Whereas, Robertson released over 6 million and had far less adults. We experimented with one this year and got permission to hold 10,000 fish to prove we can do it successfully. Normally this would not happen because they need a few seasons of water data to verify if the site selected is safe for fish, so we had a lot of cooperation from DFO to let us experiment.
A few folks commenting that the various commercial fisheries have impacted the number of spawning adults, and while that is correct in that we had several disasters with the greed factor; no effective controls on number of fish commercially retained - that is not the limiting factor here. The reason being we only need around 20,000+ fish to get enough eggs to max out the hatcheries capacity....and, the natural (wild) spawn is thought to be largely ineffective (less than 5% if memory is correct).
We have had some very productive SFAC meetings and a lot of opportunity for input. I think that everyone around the table wants the best for our fishery. Everyone, including DFO has learned a lot from past mistakes and the focus now is on moving forward to figure out how to get more fish coming back rather than getting all caught up in the blame game. I would encourage those who are interested to get involved and attend the SFAC meetings to learn more and have some input.
OBSERVATIONS:
Through September 29, a total of 46,931 adult coho, 3338 coho jacks, 19,661 adult Chinook, 568 Chinook jacks, 88,928 adult sockeye, and 93,512 sockeye jacks are estimated to have passed through the Stamp falls fishway. Through mid-day September 29, a total of 12,705 adult coho, 957 coho jacks, 10 adult Chinook, 121,556 adult sockeye, and 332,402 sockeye jacks are estimated to have passed through the Sproat falls fishway.
Since September 24, daily escapement counts through the Stamp Falls fishway ranged between 116 (on September 29) and 1093 adult Chinook, and 97 (on September 29) and 710 adult coho. Adult sockeye daily escapement since September 24 was negligible (0 or 1) at the Stamp falls fishway and ranged between 2 and 18 at the Sproat fishway.
The discharge rate over the past few days is very high and river temperatures have continued to decrease. Over the past week river temperatures have ranged between 16.8 and 19.5oC at the Sproat fishway (Figure 4). Temperature data from the Stamp Falls fishway is currently unavailable because the HOBO environmental monitoring system is experiencing technical difficulties.
Note: Salmon escapement estimates in this bulletin are preliminary, based on an initial digital video review.
