Driving an EV pickup

Interesting to see a clients development proposal, EV “ready” just has the conduit supplied and space in the mcc room? Sorry don’t know what they call electrical rooms/panels in residential. It’s starting off as a rental for 10 years, hopefully there will be grants to phase them in for renters who need them cause rent won’t be cheap.

Bike parking has 129 with 50% electrical and 100% of the 26 cargo bikes.

Proposal was about to go to a public hearing but ndp eliminated hearings, be interesting to see if the 119 suite building gets approved.

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To me, "EV charging ready" means the building has its electrical service sized such that each unit's panel is able to accommodate a 240V 40A dedicated to charger. And yes, conduit and conductors run to a box in an appropriate location.
 
To me, "EV charging ready" means the building has its electrical service sized such that each unit's panel is able to accommodate a 240V 40A dedicated to charger. And yes, conduit and conductors run to a box in an appropriate location.
The reality of this is that each dwelling unit requires a power system robust enough to support two clothes dryers and an oven. That doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me.
 
@kaelc - I have a bit of experience with EV charging in new multi-family apartment stratas - forgive me if I get a bit too far into the weeds. I see three main issues:

1) Common Property vs Limited Common Property. In 99% of all stratas your parking stall is designated as 'limited common property' on the strata plan (sometimes its done as an exclusive use license, but the impact is similar). What that means is that although the parking stall is not a part of your strata lot, it is common property assigned to the exclusive use of that strata lot. It basically means you are as close to owning it as you can get. The flip side of 'you own it' is that you don't share it. Lets say the strata wants to install a few EV chargers for use by all owners - there's just nowhere to do it because everyone owns their own stall there is no mechanism to share. As such, the only option is to install an EV charger (or allow sufficient capacity) at every single stall.

2) Electrical Capacity. In a single family house you typically have a 100amp or 200amp electrical service and power transformation to 120/240V is handled by the utility. The electrical load on your panel is a relatively simple calculation that takes floor area + electric range + electric dryer + Electric heating/cooling, and de-rates the load for each of these because they typically do not occur simultaneously. Load from an EV charger is not de-rated, and adds 30-50amps on top. In an apartment building, you do a similar load calc, however as the number of units increases the Electrical code allows you to further derate the main electrical service because not all loads from all suites occur simultaneously. However, EV load is on its own dedicated electrical system which is completely seperate from the suites and the Electrical code does not allow you to de-rate these loads (eg it requires the entire EV system to be sized in order to handle every single EV charging simultaneously). It is not uncommon to see the electrical system for the EV charging system sized almost the same as the entire rest of the building. Essentially you end up with an EV charging electrical system so big, that the building needs a second unit substation (the main transformer that received power from the utility ar 12,500/25,000 volts). To avoid this, the only real option is to rough-in a 'load management' system in which central load management hardware/software monitors the loads going to the chargers and then throttles capacity up or down based on which EVs are actually charging while not exceeding the building's electrical system capacity. In these 'networked' systems, a single 40amp circuit can handle up to 4 stalls, versus 1-40amp circuit per stall with a conventional charger. The main problem with these systems is that they operate on 3rd party subscription software, use proprietarty hardware, and have high monthly subscription costs. The developer can rough in the wiring/panels for these systems, but they can't install the load management system or the actual chargers because you would be committing to a particular system and every strata owner would now be paying for the EV charging load management service whether they own an EV or not. As of right now, most apartment buildings only have a few EVs.

3) Billing. In a modern strata building, BC Hydro will supply a dedicated/shared master meter for the exclusive use of the EV charging system. They won't supply individual meters to each EV charger, and the BC Utility Commission does not allow the strata to use the meter's built in software to track consumption for billing purposes because that would make the strata a 'reseller' of electricity and the EV chargers are not utility grade meters. As such, the strata gets one bill for EV charging and the only way to apportion it is by dividing it among all EV users as a fixed charge. Given the relatively low cost of electricity for EV charging, that's not a huge issue in practice - but strata's hate it because they have to explain why the person who drives 50km/week is paying the same monthly charge as the guy driving 100km/day. 'Perceived fairness' is a huge issue when it comes to running a functional strata meeting.

Strata corps are run by volunteers and aren't always the most sophisticated operators. Managing the installation/billing of an EV charging network is like running a small utility and is just beyond the scope of most Councils. Consequently, you see a lot of buildings that have been rough-ed in for EV chargers, where the Strata just sits on their hands and does nothing because they don't fully understand what they have, what the limitations of the building are, or who to talk to. Every option requires an expensive commitment, and is extremely hard to do if you only have a handful of initial EV owners.

What I would really like to see is an approach that makes it feasible for the developer to install the finished meters without requiring crazy electrical systems - either with fewer/simpler non-networked meters that are shared (or installed in shared 'common property' parking stalls). Would it be completely crazy in our modern world to have an EV charger shared between 2 stalls, and each person has the right to charge every other day? Alternatively, have the developer just install 1-2 DC fast charging station per building (with utility grade metering and direct credit card billing), and forget the individual Level 2 chargers entirely.
Dam that was in the weeds and another thing property owners with dreams of ndp developments have to consider! Hauling 5lb electric bike battery up an elevator or using a 120v circuit seems like no big deal in comparison.
 
Sorry to continue to derail your thread. Love reading your posts about your Lightning.
I'm fine with this line of discussion. I'm not here to thump the tub and tell everyone they should be driving an EV, but rather to show through my experience how they actually work in the real world.

But obviously that 'real world' is different for eveyone reading the thread. Vehicles, charging and how they fit into our cities and our lives is of common concern, but looks different for each of us. If we discuss the variations and other situations then maybe more people would start to see possibilities for them.
 
My only issue is I believe they have designed batteries with planned obsolescence in mind, rather then have easily replaceable, fixable ect batteries

Forcing people to basically scrap these things after 10 years

Looking past the battery issues these things are pretty much free to run and would last for ever.
 
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My only issue is I believe they have designed batteries with planned obsolescence in mind, rather then have easily replaceable, fixable ect batteries

Forcing people to basically scrap these things after 10 years

Looking past the battery issues these things are pretty much free to run and would last for ever.
I hear the concerns over battery replacement a lot, but I don't think there's much actual foundation for them. These aren't lead-acid starting batteries that only live 5-7 years. Car makers know the batteries are the most expensive components in their vehicles, so these are the most carefully designed and monitored batteries ever made. Highly detailed cooling/heating systems and preconditioning software routines before driving or charging are all intended to maintain long life. Individual modules within a vehicle battery are monitored by the management system and can be replaced separately if so indicated.

We don't have long run data on Lightning yet, as the first ones only hit the road in 2022, but Tesla has over a decade now. Their study shows that a model S or X at the 320,000 km mark had an average of 88% of its original factory range remaining, and later releases like models 3 and Y have even more sophisticated battery chemistry.

What we're used to with ICE vehicles is they run until they don't. A significant mechanical failure in engine or transmission forces us to either fix it or scrap it. For the most part though, EV isn't be like that. Maximum range will slowly drop off with the passing of time and charge cycles, but there's no sudden breakdown equivalent to a broken timing belt or blown head gasket.

 
My only issue is I believe they have designed batteries with planned obsolescence in mind, rather then have easily replaceable, fixable ect batteries

Forcing people to basically scrap these things after 10 years

Looking past the battery issues these things are pretty much free to run and would last for ever.
Fortunately Tesla and other manufacturers can’t keep innovation and independent repair down. There are multiple businesses in the states that do repairs to batteries and if there isn’t one in the lower mainland yet, there will be!
 
Apparently a couple of years ago Tesla had a 1 million mile battery working in the lab. Not sure if it's in production yet tho.
 
I read some of the issue is segments of the battery failing, a cluster of cells or what ever.

The other issue I read is insurance not covering battery replacement but I guess that no different then a gas car getting written off.

Read about a guy driving over a piece of metal and it punctured the battery and car got written off,

A plug in is probably in my near future so this thread has been great
 
I read some of the issue is segments of the battery failing, a cluster of cells or what ever.

The other issue I read is insurance not covering battery replacement but I guess that no different then a gas car getting written off.

Read about a guy driving over a piece of metal and it punctured the battery and car got written off,

A plug in is probably in my near future so this thread has been great
Plug-ins don't make sense to me. A fraction of the savings of operating an EV but all the expenses of an ICE engine. From my perspective it's either going to be an EV or an ICE but I don't want to be balls only half deep.
 
Plug-ins don't make sense to me. A fraction of the savings of operating an EV but all the expenses of an ICE engine. From my perspective it's either going to be an EV or an ICE but I don't want to be balls only half deep.
Were the Toyota Prius a plug in? The taxi cabs seemed to do very well, they were everywhere for awhile.
 
Were the Toyota Prius a plug in? The taxi cabs seemed to do very well, they were everywhere for awhile.
I believe so. And the RAV4 Prime is a great vehicle. But the way I view it is that it only offers a modest fuel savings, yet you're still burdened with all the maintenance costs of a conventional gas engine. I think hybrids will be viewed historically as a gateway to full electric for a lot of people.
 
The starting in 2012 Toyota offered a plug-in Prius model (not standard on all Prius'). I think it was 20km all electric
 
I believe so. And the RAV4 Prime is a great vehicle. But the way I view it is that it only offers a modest fuel savings, yet you're still burdened with all the maintenance costs of a conventional gas engine. I think hybrids will be viewed historically as a gateway to full electric for a lot of people.
I thought they had the regenerative braking charging aspect?
 
I ment plug in as 100% electric but I may consider a hybrid but it would have to be a plug in for sure.

Tesla y was a good fit but it’s expensive
 
I thought they had the regenerative braking charging aspect?
"Traditional" hybrids like the main Prius line have an ICE, a small lithium battery and electric motor in a closed loop. The electric drivetrain kicks in for moving off from stationary and has a regen function when slowing. The ICE acts as a conventional drive system and recharges the battery when there's no regen.

Then there's plug-in hybrid, or PHEV for short. RAV4 Prime, Prius Prime and Mitsubishi Outlander are well known examples, but lots more are coming onto the market - it's a growth sector for sure. There's a few different drivetrain layouts, but the one that is starting to become dominant is what I think of as "generator mode". This is where the wheels are driven solely by electric motors, from a battery; when the battery gets low, the ICE starts and generates charging current. Similar concept as used by diesel locos for over half a century, just with a battery added. Most have 60-80 km of electric range for around town use, gas generator kicks in after that. You get the instant torque of electric drive all the time, but longer stretches between stops are possible. Charge the battery at home from hydro power and a significant chunk of annual mileage will be cheap and clean.

For my own driving use and personal outlook, I prefer all electric. Simple, cheap to run, almost no maintenance, a tenth of the moving parts so there's less to break. Once development matures and R&D represents a smaller portion of overall production costs, they'll be cheaper to buy than ICE or PHEV. But long trips away from home only account for 15% of my annual km, so figuring out public chargers and making sure I have enough charge to get there is only an occasional thing. I know others drive a lot more highway km than I do, or just want to hit a gas station when needed and not worry about charging. That's fine, different tools for different jobs. For the odd person who does almost all their driving on long highway runs, I'd say stick with ICE for a while. That's where they're at their best.
 
Tesla y was a good fit but it’s expensive
Did you look at cost of ownership over 3-5 years? Low running costs and near-zero maintenance catch up a lot of ground; obviously the more km driven, the sooner the gap is bridged.
 
Plug-ins don't make sense to me. A fraction of the savings of operating an EV but all the expenses of an ICE engine. From my perspective it's either going to be an EV or an ICE but I don't want to be balls only half deep.
depends on your driving habits. We have a Hyundai PHEV and it pretty much goes everywhere we need it to on a 4 hr charge from our home charger. Wife puts in $25 in gas a couple of times a year. I think the latest readout was .2 litre per 100 kilometre. So at .2 it’s pretty efficient 500 K to a litre. We went PHEV years back when we still had range anxiety. Will soon be looking for a new car and probably go fully electric, but maybe not as we have been very happy with the PHEV. Everyone is different, this is what works for us and is a second vehicle.
 
My wife has had a Prius PHEV on order for well over a year . It was ordered when the vehicle was announced with a subject to fit (I am 6'4" tall) clause in the contract.

There has been some reporting by Consumer's Reports that the PHEV Prius are not as reliable as the Hybrids. We now know that the PHEV is FWD while the Hybrid is AWD.

The Hybrid Prius is a great taxi cab and that says something for it's low operating costs and reliability..

sly karma's reporting makes the Lightning quite appealling except I really don't need a pick up.

I have read quite a few positive reviews on its' ability to provide comfortable seating for tall people.

Now that I am retired , I have the time to head over and take one out for a test ride.

I have drive 2 Teslas a Model 3 and a Model Y. I cant see very well out of a M\odel 3 and the 3's and Y's seats are really short to be comfortable for me.
 
depends on your driving habits. We have a Hyundai PHEV and it pretty much goes everywhere we need it to on a 4 hr charge from our home charger. Wife puts in $25 in gas a couple of times a year. I think the latest readout was .2 litre per 100 kilometre. So at .2 it’s pretty efficient 500 K to a litre. We went PHEV years back when we still had range anxiety. Will soon be looking for a new car and probably go fully electric, but maybe not as we have been very happy with the PHEV. Everyone is different, this is what works for us and is a second vehicle.
Sounds like you've proved your second car could easily be an EV. But if it's paid off and doing what you need it to do, why change? Or, since your gas engine must have very low hours, pull a readout off its ECM and post it for sale on this forum!
 
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