browningmirage
Active Member
You should cite a source saying that eruptions are bigger emitters than civilization. There have been none in the past 100 years that would even come close.
The Pacific Ocean is so acidic that it's dissolving Dungeness crabs' shells
- Thread starter dradons
- Start date
You should cite a source saying that eruptions are bigger emitters than civilization. There have been none in the past 100 years that would even come close.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
I would be happy to but on another thread. My comment to Chris about volcanic influence was to halt him from quoting me incorrectly. This thread is about ocean acidification. Lets just keep this thread on track.
I will try this again:
Basic chemistry says high alkaline water like ocean water 125ppm resist change to pH far greater than water with no alkalinity like precipitation does it not? With such a minuscule change showing in the precipitation then there would be no detectable change to the oceans when considering volume of oceans and high alkalinity compared to water vapour or rain with no alkalinity. If atmospheric co@ is causing a pH drop like Chris says then how is it measured differentially from pH drops caused from the other more powerful acid forming molecules like sulphur or nitrogen? Chris says it is basic chemistry but eludes to show any instrumental test results to prove his claims.
Neither of you will comment on the LaPush bouy pH readings. Why is that?
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
You say, " CO2 is the big factor to influence seawater due to the vast surface contact and exchange rate". Do you mean the exchange rate in sea water would be greater than it would be in airborne water vapor?
Have you ever looked up the percentage saltwater versus freshwater on this planet? And then the tiny portion of this freshwater that is atmospheric? Even if all freshwater had a pH of 1 and was neon orange colored you wouldn't see a thing in the oceans.
Come on man...
Come on man...
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
I don't think you are understanding the question I am asking!
Lets try this one instead.
In the following graph would you say the ocean pH is increasing over time or decreasing over time at the LaPush bouy?
This question seems to be troubling some people. Maybe the Agent can share his prospective.
seascene
Crew Member
This was in my email today. Apologies if this has already been posted. Perhaps the knowledgeable here might comment (if not already posted
https://www.livescience.com/ocean-acidification.html?mc_cid=0ee68be033&mc_eid=f9910ecb07.
https://www.livescience.com/ocean-acidification.html?mc_cid=0ee68be033&mc_eid=f9910ecb07.
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
This is another report that does jump to the conclusion that atmospheric co2 is causing acidification of the oceans. The report like every other OA report doesn't mention freshwaters or precipitation being acidified. That is because FW and precipitation has been on a rising pH trend for the last 25 years. The rise in rain pH is also far greater, (between 10 and 100 times less acidic), then the little changes seen at some oceanic sites. This should be good news!! Suspended atmospheric molecules will react with water. Co2 has far less of an effect than sulfate and nitrogen. co2 may be going up in the atmosphere but the other more potent acid forming substances have decreased causing the precipitation pH to rise substantially to a point that was considered to be clean rain many years ago. So to claim the vast oceans with 125ppm average alkalinity is acidifying from co2 or whatever combination of acid forming molecules are in the atmosphere while the alkalinity free precipitation is in a rising pH trend is totally out to lunch.
In this last OA report they do state this, " Ocean upwelling, where currents bring colder waters with higher concentrations of carbon dioxide from the ocean's depths to the surface, also magnifies the effects of ocean acidification in coastal waters". There is the problem with their conclusion of linking OA to the fossil fuel consumption. How many times does upwelling magnify the effects?? Is it 10x is it 50x? Does ocean mixing trump co2 surface absorption? If anything upwelling would serve to remove the co2 saturated surface waters and mix them with deeper waters. Unfortunately those deeper waters being upwelled are lower in pH. Changes in upwelling better explains changes in pH trends going either way at open ocean sites not co2 absorption. Further more the LaPush bouy which has been in a rising pH trend is in a naturally colder climate zone than Hawaii which has a lowering pH trend. Colder water can absorb more co2 so in a stagnant ocean LaPush should be the sample site with the lower ph trend than Hawaii but the opposite is what is happening. Just another bit of information validating the upwelling rather than atmospheric co2 absorption theory.
I guess it all depends on where you get your data, how you line it up, which date you wish to omit and what your agenda is. If you have a hard on for humanity and fossil fuel industry then you would definitely not use the date from places like LaPush bouy. You also wouldn't want anyone to know about the diminished sulfate and nitrogen in the atmosphere or the trend that is going on in surface waters or precipitation. Nope that information would blow your story apart.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Ran across this yesterday and I thought I would post it up here so Fishmyster could give us his analysis.
https://meetings.pices.int/publicat...ions/Special-Report 5-Ocean_Acidification.pdf
https://meetings.pices.int/publicat...ions/Special-Report 5-Ocean_Acidification.pdf
Fishmyster
Well-Known Member
GLG
Well-Known Member
It's a rather large pdf so it can take 15 sec or more if your on high speed internet.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Here is a couple of videos that help to explain the problem and how it affects everyone from those that earn a living from the sea to those of us that see it as a part of us, through fishing, and think its worth protecting. I want my grandchildren to take their grandchildren fishing like many on this website have experienced.
From 2016 problem
From 2018 - solutions
From 2016 problem
From 2018 - solutions
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
It will take more than 700 years to reverse ocean acidification to the point of pre-industrial conditions, even with the most aggressive carbon dioxide removal techniques, scientists have said.
SpringVelocity
Crew Member
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
