Startling new research finds large buildup of heat in the oceans, suggesting a faster rate of global
- Thread starter agentaqua
- Start date
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
https://www.eenews.net/stories/1060104389
"The dismal salmon runs across the rest of Alaska this year have been attributed to changes in the Gulf of Alaska, including the mysterious "blob" of unusually warm water that plagued the region a few years ago, and increased competition from other salmon species (Greenwire, Oct. 23).
Bristol Bay's sockeye weren't affected by those factors because salmon born in Bristol Bay's rivers and streams spend most of their ocean lives in the southeast Bering Sea, not the Gulf of Alaska.
"When they enter the marine environment, it's a different environment that wasn't directly influenced by the blob," said Greg Ruggerone, a Washington state-based scientist who has been studying Alaskan salmon since 1979.
Even though some sockeye from Bristol Bay could have swum into the Gulf of Alaska during their time in the ocean, by the time they got there from Bristol Bay, scientists say, they were likely large enough to survive the blob and fend for themselves against competitors.
"The blob" — which disappeared in 2016 as mysteriously as it appeared — was an anomaly.
But there is evidence Bristol Bay sockeye will continue to have an advantage over their southern relatives for years to come because climate change is causing the Gulf of Alaska to warm faster than the southern Bering Sea, where most Bristol Bay sockeye spend their ocean lives.
"When they leave fresh water, they are entering an area that's warmer than in the past but not as warm as the blob and cooler than what a normal Gulf of Alaska would look like," said Ed Farley, program manager for the Ecosystem Monitoring and Assessment Program at NOAA's Alaska Fisheries Science Center."
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
By Denise Chow with NBC News Tech and Science News• last updated: 01/11/2018
TEXT SIZEAaAa
While mapping the seafloor some 250 miles off the coast of the Australian island of Tasmania, scientists recently discovered what's being called a "volcanic lost world"deep underwater.
The chain of volcanic seamounts — huge undersea mountains that loom as tall as 9,800 feet, or more than six times taller than the Empire State Building — offer a glimpse into a previously unknown ocean ecosystem.
The seamounts vary in size and shape, with some having sharp peaks and others having plateaus, Tara Martin, a researcher with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation in Hobart, Tasmania, said in a statement. But even the tallest seamounts were still at least 6,500 feet below the ocean's surface.
Environment
The scientists also encountered an unusual abundance of marine animals in the area, including humpback and long-finned pilot whales as well as albatrosses, petrels and other seabirds.
The unexpected discovery, made by Martin and other researchers aboard the organization's research ship Investigator during a 25-day mapping expedition, highlights just how little we really know about the bottom of the ocean.
"We've only mapped a tiny fraction of the ocean floor," said Andrew Fisher, a marine geologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz, who was not involved in the new discovery. "We have more detailed maps of Mars, Venus and the moon than we do of the seafloor. Other planetary bodies can be mapped in high resolution with satellites, but on Earth, the water layer gets in the way. The only way is to go out with ships."
The research vessel Investigator is owned and operated by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, Australia’s national science agency.Owen Foley
More than 80 percent of the ocean remains unmapped and unexplored, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. That's because it's difficult and time consuming to create detailed seafloor maps. Sonar-equipped research vessels like the Investigator must make a series of passes over an area in a process Fisher likened to mowing a lawn.
The Australian researchers plan to study the seamounts off Tasmania in greater detail during future expeditions over the next two months.
Fisher said he's keen to see the results of these follow-up studies, adding that the discovery suggests that many more of these hidden worlds may be out there waiting to be found.
"People have estimated that something like 10,000 to 100,000 of these kinds of features are out there," he said. "We look at areas that we've already mapped and say, 'If this is representative, let's scale that up to the whole planet.' That tells you there are many thousands of these that haven't been found yet."
TEXT SIZEAaAa
While mapping the seafloor some 250 miles off the coast of the Australian island of Tasmania, scientists recently discovered what's being called a "volcanic lost world"deep underwater.
The chain of volcanic seamounts — huge undersea mountains that loom as tall as 9,800 feet, or more than six times taller than the Empire State Building — offer a glimpse into a previously unknown ocean ecosystem.
The seamounts vary in size and shape, with some having sharp peaks and others having plateaus, Tara Martin, a researcher with the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation in Hobart, Tasmania, said in a statement. But even the tallest seamounts were still at least 6,500 feet below the ocean's surface.
Environment
The scientists also encountered an unusual abundance of marine animals in the area, including humpback and long-finned pilot whales as well as albatrosses, petrels and other seabirds.
The unexpected discovery, made by Martin and other researchers aboard the organization's research ship Investigator during a 25-day mapping expedition, highlights just how little we really know about the bottom of the ocean.
"We've only mapped a tiny fraction of the ocean floor," said Andrew Fisher, a marine geologist at the University of California, Santa Cruz, who was not involved in the new discovery. "We have more detailed maps of Mars, Venus and the moon than we do of the seafloor. Other planetary bodies can be mapped in high resolution with satellites, but on Earth, the water layer gets in the way. The only way is to go out with ships."
The research vessel Investigator is owned and operated by the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organisation, Australia’s national science agency.Owen Foley
More than 80 percent of the ocean remains unmapped and unexplored, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. That's because it's difficult and time consuming to create detailed seafloor maps. Sonar-equipped research vessels like the Investigator must make a series of passes over an area in a process Fisher likened to mowing a lawn.
The Australian researchers plan to study the seamounts off Tasmania in greater detail during future expeditions over the next two months.
Fisher said he's keen to see the results of these follow-up studies, adding that the discovery suggests that many more of these hidden worlds may be out there waiting to be found.
"People have estimated that something like 10,000 to 100,000 of these kinds of features are out there," he said. "We look at areas that we've already mapped and say, 'If this is representative, let's scale that up to the whole planet.' That tells you there are many thousands of these that haven't been found yet."
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
http://sciencenordic.com/here’s-what-warmer-world-will-look-norway
Fish species are moving north
Warmer ocean temperatures will cause Norwegian fish species such as cod, coalfish and herring to move north. These species have been found both in the relatively temperate North Sea and in the colder Barents Sea.
As sea temperatures have risen over the last 40 years, the conditions for these fish have become worse in the North Sea, while in the Barents Sea, stocks have increased in both quantity and extent.
"In the North Sea, more temperate fish species have come from the south such as sardines, anchovies, and European hake," says Sundby.
These changes can have consequences for seabirds. The puffin is threatened as a result of changes in fish stock locations. However, in the short term, there will be more fish overall in Norwegian waters, at least as long as the temperature increase is limited to just two degrees Celsius.
Fish species are moving north
Warmer ocean temperatures will cause Norwegian fish species such as cod, coalfish and herring to move north. These species have been found both in the relatively temperate North Sea and in the colder Barents Sea.
As sea temperatures have risen over the last 40 years, the conditions for these fish have become worse in the North Sea, while in the Barents Sea, stocks have increased in both quantity and extent.
"In the North Sea, more temperate fish species have come from the south such as sardines, anchovies, and European hake," says Sundby.
These changes can have consequences for seabirds. The puffin is threatened as a result of changes in fish stock locations. However, in the short term, there will be more fish overall in Norwegian waters, at least as long as the temperature increase is limited to just two degrees Celsius.
GLG
Well-Known Member
B.C.'s plans for rising sea levels 'may not be enough,' report warns
Coastal Ocean Research Institute warns that climate change, trash and noise all threaten ocean waters
Bethany Lindsay · CBC News · Posted: Nov 01, 2018
The research arm of the Vancouver Aquarium is ringing alarm bells about the future of B.C.'s coastal waters, saying current plans for dealing with climate change and other human-caused disturbances fall short of what's needed.
A new report from the Coastal Ocean Research Institute breaks down the current state of B.C.'s ocean waters. It finds that sea levels seem to be rising faster and higher than previous models predicted, while surface temperatures creep ever higher.
The report also suggests, that despite anecdotal reports some sea star species are recovering from a devastating wasting disease, these important ocean creatures have shown no measurable signs of a rebound.
more here..... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...vels-may-not-be-enough-report-warns-1.4888550
walleyes
Crew Member
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/16/657778326/climate-change-could-make-beer-prices-double-study-says
The Horror, the Horror.
The Horror, the Horror.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
A vault of glass and the deepest underwater volcanic eruption ever detected
The extremely young age of the lava deposit offers scientists a window into the very beginnings of what happens when a volcanic outburst occurs beneath the seas
The New York Times
Robin George Andrews
November 2, 2018
10:41 AM EDT
In 2015, an international team of researchers sent robotic submersibles beneath the waves north of Guam. They had set out to study an area south and west of the Mariana Trench — the deepest groove in Earth’s oceans — and an arc of volcanoes, hoping to spy hidden hydrothermal vents.
Instead, they discovered a spectacular glassy labyrinth, nearly five kilometres below sea level. It was recently cooled lava, the product of the deepest underwater volcanic eruption ever recorded by scientists.
The researchers reported their discovery last week in Frontiers in Earth Science. The identification of deep-sea eruptions happens very rarely, said Bill Chadwick, a seafloor geologist at the NOAA Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Oregon and lead author of the new study, and discovering one “is an opportunity to learn about a fundamental Earth process that we know little about.”
Trending in Canada
Tories vow to fight appointment of Liberal chair chosen during song and booze-fuelled meeting
Conservatives say the Liberals wanted revenge against a floor-crossing MP and didn't follow proper procedure. Liberals say the Tories disrupted a…
The finding was not just notable for its extraordinary depth. The extremely young age of the lava deposit offers scientists a window into the very beginnings of what happens when a volcanic outburst occurs beneath the seas. So often, they just see an epilogue.
“Much of what we know about underwater eruptions, their hydrothermal systems and the biological communities that grow on them is gained from studying old, even ancient, volcanic systems,” said Rebecca Williams, a volcanologist at the University of Hull in England, who was not involved in the research.
A combo photo provided by Chadwick WW Jr. et al of various images made by the Deep Discoverer, a remote operated vehicle, showing lava deposits made by an eruption, including pillow tubes, glass and other formations. Close to the Mariana Trench and nearly three miles below sea level, scientists found evidence of an underwater eruption that was only months old. Chadwick WW Jr. / The New York Times
Around 80 percent of Earth’s eruptions take place within the oceans. But their depth and remoteness makes finding these near-ubiquitous events difficult. Before 1990, not a single submarine eruption had been detected. Today, even with better instrumentation and exploration, only 40 or so have been found.
It does not help that we barely know what the seafloor itself looks like. Samuel Mitchell, a doctoral student researching underwater eruptions at the University of Hawaii at Mānoa, and who was not involved in the study, said: “We actually have better maps of the entire surfaces of the moon and Mars in comparison to our own seafloor.”
Robotic submersibles are helping to close this information gap.
Chadwick’s team made the initial discovery using an autonomous vehicle named Sentry, which was built by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Back in 2015, it was perusing the seafloor near where the Pacific tectonic plate is sinking beneath the Philippine Sea plate. To the east, there is the Mariana Trench and an arc of about 60 underwater volcanic monuments, also called seamounts.
To the west of this arc, the seafloor is slowly spreading. Here, in what is known as the Mariana back-arc, additional volcanic activity is possible — and this is where Sentry spotted the prolific lava flows.
Old lava flows were expected here, but what the researchers detected is the first known new eruption in the back-arc region. That makes this discovery enormously serendipitous, as eruptions here are only expected every few hundred years or so.
After small sections of the dark, shiny lava flows were spotted by Sentry’s onboard cameras, bathymetric scans of the area from the researchers’ ship confirmed they are about 4.5 miles long and up to 450 feet thick.
Produced by the rapid quenching of lava, the individual protuberances form a surreal collection of glass. Countless bulbous mounds and pillows protruding from the streams are adorned with narrow tubes, which the study authors compare to drips of wax on the outside of a candle.
In 2015, sediment had yet to cover the flows, and hydrothermal vents were present. By 2016, the vents had quieted as the flow continued to cool. Speedy, mobile creatures like shrimp and squat lobsters had moved in. The surface was not yet hospitable for slower colonizers like sponges and anemones.
Both the lava’s cooling rate and the incomplete invasion of life indicated the eruption likely took place only months before the team stumbled across it. That youthfulness matters — these fresh rocks provide relatively unaltered insights into the chemical alchemy that produced them. It is also an opportunity to watch diverse communities of living things emerge and change as the hydrothermal system first springs up and then declines.
“The closer in time we are to an event like this, I think the more we can learn about its impacts on deep-sea ecosystems and the chemistry of the oceans,” Chadwick said.
The extremely young age of the lava deposit offers scientists a window into the very beginnings of what happens when a volcanic outburst occurs beneath the seas
The New York Times
Robin George Andrews
November 2, 2018
10:41 AM EDT
In 2015, an international team of researchers sent robotic submersibles beneath the waves north of Guam. They had set out to study an area south and west of the Mariana Trench — the deepest groove in Earth’s oceans — and an arc of volcanoes, hoping to spy hidden hydrothermal vents.
Instead, they discovered a spectacular glassy labyrinth, nearly five kilometres below sea level. It was recently cooled lava, the product of the deepest underwater volcanic eruption ever recorded by scientists.
The researchers reported their discovery last week in Frontiers in Earth Science. The identification of deep-sea eruptions happens very rarely, said Bill Chadwick, a seafloor geologist at the NOAA Pacific Marine Environmental Laboratory in Oregon and lead author of the new study, and discovering one “is an opportunity to learn about a fundamental Earth process that we know little about.”
Trending in Canada
Tories vow to fight appointment of Liberal chair chosen during song and booze-fuelled meeting
Conservatives say the Liberals wanted revenge against a floor-crossing MP and didn't follow proper procedure. Liberals say the Tories disrupted a…
The finding was not just notable for its extraordinary depth. The extremely young age of the lava deposit offers scientists a window into the very beginnings of what happens when a volcanic outburst occurs beneath the seas. So often, they just see an epilogue.
“Much of what we know about underwater eruptions, their hydrothermal systems and the biological communities that grow on them is gained from studying old, even ancient, volcanic systems,” said Rebecca Williams, a volcanologist at the University of Hull in England, who was not involved in the research.
A combo photo provided by Chadwick WW Jr. et al of various images made by the Deep Discoverer, a remote operated vehicle, showing lava deposits made by an eruption, including pillow tubes, glass and other formations. Close to the Mariana Trench and nearly three miles below sea level, scientists found evidence of an underwater eruption that was only months old. Chadwick WW Jr. / The New York Times
Around 80 percent of Earth’s eruptions take place within the oceans. But their depth and remoteness makes finding these near-ubiquitous events difficult. Before 1990, not a single submarine eruption had been detected. Today, even with better instrumentation and exploration, only 40 or so have been found.
It does not help that we barely know what the seafloor itself looks like. Samuel Mitchell, a doctoral student researching underwater eruptions at the University of Hawaii at Mānoa, and who was not involved in the study, said: “We actually have better maps of the entire surfaces of the moon and Mars in comparison to our own seafloor.”
Robotic submersibles are helping to close this information gap.
Chadwick’s team made the initial discovery using an autonomous vehicle named Sentry, which was built by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution. Back in 2015, it was perusing the seafloor near where the Pacific tectonic plate is sinking beneath the Philippine Sea plate. To the east, there is the Mariana Trench and an arc of about 60 underwater volcanic monuments, also called seamounts.
To the west of this arc, the seafloor is slowly spreading. Here, in what is known as the Mariana back-arc, additional volcanic activity is possible — and this is where Sentry spotted the prolific lava flows.
Old lava flows were expected here, but what the researchers detected is the first known new eruption in the back-arc region. That makes this discovery enormously serendipitous, as eruptions here are only expected every few hundred years or so.
After small sections of the dark, shiny lava flows were spotted by Sentry’s onboard cameras, bathymetric scans of the area from the researchers’ ship confirmed they are about 4.5 miles long and up to 450 feet thick.
Produced by the rapid quenching of lava, the individual protuberances form a surreal collection of glass. Countless bulbous mounds and pillows protruding from the streams are adorned with narrow tubes, which the study authors compare to drips of wax on the outside of a candle.
In 2015, sediment had yet to cover the flows, and hydrothermal vents were present. By 2016, the vents had quieted as the flow continued to cool. Speedy, mobile creatures like shrimp and squat lobsters had moved in. The surface was not yet hospitable for slower colonizers like sponges and anemones.
Both the lava’s cooling rate and the incomplete invasion of life indicated the eruption likely took place only months before the team stumbled across it. That youthfulness matters — these fresh rocks provide relatively unaltered insights into the chemical alchemy that produced them. It is also an opportunity to watch diverse communities of living things emerge and change as the hydrothermal system first springs up and then declines.
“The closer in time we are to an event like this, I think the more we can learn about its impacts on deep-sea ecosystems and the chemistry of the oceans,” Chadwick said.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
Note:
Around 80 percent of Earth’s eruptions take place within the oceans. But their depth and remoteness makes finding these near-ubiquitous events difficult. Before 1990, not a single submarine eruption had been detected. Today, even with better instrumentation and exploration, only 40 or so have been found.
Around 80 percent of Earth’s eruptions take place within the oceans. But their depth and remoteness makes finding these near-ubiquitous events difficult. Before 1990, not a single submarine eruption had been detected. Today, even with better instrumentation and exploration, only 40 or so have been found.
OldBlackDog
Well-Known Member
News Media Gave Blanket Coverage To Flawed Climate Paper
A week ago, we were told that climate change was worse than we thought. But the underlying science contains a major error.
Independent climate scientist Nicholas Lewis has uncovered a major error in a recent scientific paper that was given blanket coverage in the English-speaking media. The paper, written by a team led by Princeton oceanographer Laure Resplandy, claimed that the oceans have been warming faster than previously thought. It was announced, in news outlets including the BBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post and Scientific American that this meant that the Earth may warm even faster than currently estimated.
However Lewis, who has authored several peer-reviewed papers on the question of climate sensitivity and has worked with some of the world’s leading climate scientists, has found that the warming trend in the Resplandy paper differs from that calculated from the underlying data included with the paper.
“If you calculate the trend correctly, the warming rate is not worse than we thought – it’s very much in line with previous estimates,” says Lewis.
In fact, says Lewis, some of the other claims made in the paper and reported by the media, are wrong too.
“Their claims about the effect of faster ocean warming on estimates of climate sensitivity (and hence future global warming) and carbon budgets are just incorrect anyway, but that’s a moot point now we know that about their calculation error”.
And now that the errors have been uncovered, Lewis points out that it is important that the record is corrected.
“The original findings of the Resplandy paper were given blanket coverage by the media, who rarely question hyped-up findings of this kind. Let’s hope some of them are willing to correct the record”.
Nicholas Lewis: A major problem with the Resplandy et al. ocean heat uptake paper (pdf)
Contact
Nicholas Lewis
e: nhlewis@btinternet.com
A week ago, we were told that climate change was worse than we thought. But the underlying science contains a major error.
Independent climate scientist Nicholas Lewis has uncovered a major error in a recent scientific paper that was given blanket coverage in the English-speaking media. The paper, written by a team led by Princeton oceanographer Laure Resplandy, claimed that the oceans have been warming faster than previously thought. It was announced, in news outlets including the BBC, the New York Times, the Washington Post and Scientific American that this meant that the Earth may warm even faster than currently estimated.
However Lewis, who has authored several peer-reviewed papers on the question of climate sensitivity and has worked with some of the world’s leading climate scientists, has found that the warming trend in the Resplandy paper differs from that calculated from the underlying data included with the paper.
“If you calculate the trend correctly, the warming rate is not worse than we thought – it’s very much in line with previous estimates,” says Lewis.
In fact, says Lewis, some of the other claims made in the paper and reported by the media, are wrong too.
“Their claims about the effect of faster ocean warming on estimates of climate sensitivity (and hence future global warming) and carbon budgets are just incorrect anyway, but that’s a moot point now we know that about their calculation error”.
And now that the errors have been uncovered, Lewis points out that it is important that the record is corrected.
“The original findings of the Resplandy paper were given blanket coverage by the media, who rarely question hyped-up findings of this kind. Let’s hope some of them are willing to correct the record”.
Nicholas Lewis: A major problem with the Resplandy et al. ocean heat uptake paper (pdf)
Contact
Nicholas Lewis
e: nhlewis@btinternet.com
http://www.realclimate.org/index.ph...el-et-al-2015-part-iii-response-to-nic-lewis/
"The bottom line is that using adjusted forcings or assuming that ocean heat uptake is only 94% of the energy imbalance makes no qualitative difference at all."
"The bottom line is that using adjusted forcings or assuming that ocean heat uptake is only 94% of the energy imbalance makes no qualitative difference at all."
GLG
Well-Known Member
For those that don't understand what all this means.... here is the cliff notes.
IPCC says that we have until 2030 to cut our emissions in half or were effed.
Resplandy et al paper says we may have underestimated and their calculation fits the Argo float network data.
That means you have until 2028 to cut our emissions in half or were effed.
Nic Lewis says, no no you should calculate a different way and mine lines up with the IPCC report that we have until 2030 to cut our emissions in half or were effed.
At this point does it really matter who is right as were effed unless we start taking this seriously. We have either 10 or 12 years to get this done. Thankfully there are solution out there, we just need to push for them.
chromatose007
Well-Known Member
Well now... I have been following the Climate Change Catastrophe BS since Al Gore made a movie 'awhile' back.
Remember all of the grave prophecies? ALL of which NEVER have materialized. BUT WAIT, they DO keep moving the goalposts, don't they??? Why do you think that is? Gov't funding perhaps?
There is climate change, no doubt but, blaming it on man is ABSURD to say the least.
There is plenty of research available to anyone with an open mind that explains just how impossible it is for CO2 to cause catastrophic climate change.
Rising oceans? OK then, why can you still buy land and get a 30 year mortgage in Florida? Banks aren't known for making bad loans based on 'solid science', are they?
Best source for real, actual climate scientists et al is the 1000frolly YouTube channel.
Lots of other scientific based web sites that study and explain the problems with the IPCC and their ilk
I will leave you with a quote from the IPCC:
"Climate models are unable to predict extreme events because they lack spatial and temporal resolution. In addition, there is no clear evidence that sustained or worldwide changes in extreme events have occurred in the past few decades" --- IPCC AR4 (2007) Section 8.3.9.3 Page 232
Remember all of the grave prophecies? ALL of which NEVER have materialized. BUT WAIT, they DO keep moving the goalposts, don't they??? Why do you think that is? Gov't funding perhaps?
There is climate change, no doubt but, blaming it on man is ABSURD to say the least.
There is plenty of research available to anyone with an open mind that explains just how impossible it is for CO2 to cause catastrophic climate change.
Rising oceans? OK then, why can you still buy land and get a 30 year mortgage in Florida? Banks aren't known for making bad loans based on 'solid science', are they?
Best source for real, actual climate scientists et al is the 1000frolly YouTube channel.
Lots of other scientific based web sites that study and explain the problems with the IPCC and their ilk
I will leave you with a quote from the IPCC:
"Climate models are unable to predict extreme events because they lack spatial and temporal resolution. In addition, there is no clear evidence that sustained or worldwide changes in extreme events have occurred in the past few decades" --- IPCC AR4 (2007) Section 8.3.9.3 Page 232
littlechucky
Crew Member
I believe we are in a warming phase globally.
Where I am sitting was covered under a couple kilometres(!!) of ice only 20,000 years ago (which is a blip in geologic time). So rising sea levels and receding glaciers is only a continuation of this.
I am not going to debate whether or not man has played a role in global warming / climate change...we probably have to an extent. But the broader trend has existed long before the last 150 yrs.
Where I am sitting was covered under a couple kilometres(!!) of ice only 20,000 years ago (which is a blip in geologic time). So rising sea levels and receding glaciers is only a continuation of this.
I am not going to debate whether or not man has played a role in global warming / climate change...we probably have to an extent. But the broader trend has existed long before the last 150 yrs.
wildmanyeah
Crew Member
I thought I read somewhere or may have herd it on star talk that we are actually suppose to be in a cooling trend.
Similar threads
