Eco Groups Want Emergency protection for Resident Orcas!

Discussion in 'Saltwater Fishing Forum' started by Whole in the Water, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. ILHG

    ILHG Well-Known Member

    I have an idea!!

    Someone quick submit a pipeline application to distract them..;)

    (No political sarcasm intended.. I just picture a dog distracted by a squirrel..)
    Derby likes this.

    J-GLOBAL Well-Known Member

    I'm kind of curious about the petition, the science/reasoning, and the response that has happened and that will happen.

    Obviously, I'd prefer my sport fishing opportunities not be impacted (selfish).

    However, I recognize that this is a species at risk, and perhaps we (humans) should do something to help.

    The question, for me, is:
    what changes will have the greatest impact on the survival of this species?

    If the largest positive change would be reducing sport fishing opportunities, and there is sound science behind this, well, okay.

    I'd suggest that there are likely other changes that would have a more significant impact, and therefore, of course, those should be pursued in order of their impact.

    I had an interesting discussion with a U.S. gent today, who suggested our winter fishery is catching all their fish so we shouldn't be allowed to fish in the winter. Not exactly relevant to the SRKW discussion, but similar in that changes are suggested for one group, for the benefit of another.

    Hopefully those making the decisions will insist on having as much relevant data as possible, and make as unbiased a decision (non-politically or $ based) as possible for the benefit of the species at risk. Us humans will get along just fine with a reduced Whale Watching fleet, or fewer days/smaller fishable areas, or a reduced commercial harvest, or reduced in-river netting, etc.

    My confidence that the decision, if any, will be based on anything "objective" is very small.
  3. GLG

    GLG Well-Known Member

    Great post J-Global it seems that your thinking this through. As you pointed out it's complicated.

    It also seems some are looking at the parade and hoping to get out in front, to bend it, for their agenda. I could be wrong ....... maybe they just like stirring the pot to get a rise.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
    bigdogeh and Tugcapitan like this.
  4. california

    california Well-Known Member

    Good point J-Global, as with everything there are many factors, and if sport fishing representatives take the position of some on this thread that everyone else is the enemy and to blame (NGOs, Commies, FN, Alaskans, Seals, Freighters, Pollution) , and sport fishers are a small part of the problem so leave us alone, the outcome will be worse. The amount of salmon sport fisherman take isn't really the main issue. Off course we take some, some estimates are two weeks worth of feed for the SRKW, which isn't insignificant, but the bigger issue is all the best places for foraging also have sport boats, with engines running and a maze of gear down which likely makes the whales avoid the areas. Add in the constant harassment of the whale watching fleet (which I believe is a huge issue) and these animals probably have lost some of the opportunity to forage undisturbed. Northern Residents, also fish eaters, are doing quite well, also in the face of declining chinook stocks, but they don't have the same concentrations of sport boats all year round, whale watching vessels or pollution that SRKW contend with.

    Increasing hatchery production will take 4 years to show any results, and increasing production in the past has not led to more fish (for 4 decades now) so why it would be expected to work now I'm not sure. Action will be taken sooner, and it seems inevitable that some sort of fishing exclusion zones, which should include no whale watching in the zones, will be set up. It seems sport fishers would be best served by being ahead of the curve, and have proposals that minimize the impact to sport fishers, but also make some concessions for the welfare of the animals. Otherwise we risk being painted as a stubborn, privileged segment of the population that can afford expensive boats and gear, and are interested in nothing but our own recreation.
    bigdogeh and Derby like this.
  5. kaelc

    kaelc Well-Known Member

    Why has Raincoast and the David Suzuki foundation dropped the commercial seine fleet as a target since 2013? They were targeting the seine fleet and then backed off a 100% to now target recreational fishers feeding their families. I think large corporate money being paid to Seachoice which is ran by the David Suzuki foundation is buying their silence and killing wild salmon in the long term. Target the little guy while teaming up with corporations, through their sustainable grocery chain partnerships. It is time reporters started asking the hard questions about why kill salmon by the millions at the mouths of rivers, when they are about to spawn and create a long term fix? The reporters have to ask who are these "environmentalist" beholden too?
    chromatose007 likes this.
  6. Fishtofino

    Fishtofino Well-Known Member


    Adapt to the abundant food source
    wildmanyeah likes this.
  7. wildmanyeah

    wildmanyeah Well-Known Member

    Maybe they will now that’s granny’s dead, or maybe we should chum the waters for them with seals. This pod is obviously failing to adapt to climate change.

    There’s constantly 10 whale watching boats bagging them all day. I’d like to see whale watches restriscet to odd or even days of the week. That would provide them with every other day of free feeding and allow the pod to spread out.

    It would be Interesting to see a study that shows the impacts of whale watching.

    I’d be happy to restrict my fishing days too if a ballenced approve is taken.
  8. wildmanyeah

    wildmanyeah Well-Known Member

    It says in their report that in 2017 commercials fishing was almost non existent.

    Maybe they have one that battle
  9. kelly

    kelly Well-Known Member

    NGOs like the ones you listed have been the main opposition to Fish farms and a damaging commercial fisheries. I wouldn’t waste too much time on your conspiracy theories.

    Proactive discussion with them showing the facts and suggesting realistic alternatives is going to be a more productive approach than putting our heads in the sand and ignoring them.
    bigdogeh, Fishtofino and california like this.
  10. profisher

    profisher Well-Known Member

    Commercial fishing is almost extinct for the same reason the whales are going extinct. The commi's need even more fish than the whales do to survive so they disappeared first.
    Fishtofino and kelly like this.
  11. SpringVelocity

    SpringVelocity Well-Known Member

    I believe we crossed that line years ago with these groups. Btw just because they back fish farms doesn't mean we have to support them. These groups are lobbying to shut down fisheries and businesses. Anyway do what you want but spreading around their message could get our fisheries closed. I won't be supporting any of them anymore.

    BTW I am not suggesting putting head in the sand. But why would you seriously go on social media, and just feed the misinformation. Some of you don't even read the garbage and it it goes onto all over the place on people's feeds. I mean come on cherry picked data, end all hatcheries, we cant do net pens because of this etc. etc.

    Its a lot of negativity from personally groups that don't spend a dime on salmon enhancement, and frankly I think it is a little insulting. They talk about working together, and this has shown they are not.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
    ILHG, Tidal Chaos and wildmanyeah like this.
  12. wildmanyeah

    wildmanyeah Well-Known Member


    Ugg i hate to say this but Watershed Watch Salmon Society and the wild salmon defender alliance vigorously apposes salmon farms but seems to be on recreational and commercial fishermen side. Its odd because Alexandra Morton started her career listening to whales so you would think she would be more involved in saving them but i guess shes just too pissed off that salmon farms used sound devices that chased the whales off where she lives in the broughton archipelago.

    Maybe it helps that Alexandra Morton nabour was a commercial troller and she worked on it.

    These groups should be our public enemy number 1 as they have declared war on recreational fishermen.

    On behalf of David Suzuki Foundation, Georgia Strait Alliance, Natural Resources Defense
    Council, Raincoast Conservation Foundation and World Wildlife Fund Canada
    (the “Petitioners”)

    i. Establish protected Southern Resident feeding refuges in priority feeding areas (Figure 5) to enable Southern Residents to forage without competition, interference, noise or disturbance from recreational and commercial salmon fishing, between May 1 – November 30.

    This measure is intended to prevent adverse impacts from salmon fishing within core Southern Resident feeding areas. These proposed Southern Resident feeding refuges lie within habitat identified as Southern Resident critical habitat under SARA or proposed as resident killer whale critical habitat by DFO. These areas include the Southwestern shoreline of Vancouver Island through Juan de Fuca, extending westward to Pachena Bay; Boundary Pass to southwest North Pender Island and to East Point on Saturna Island; and approaches to the Fraser River (Figure 5). (In the U.S., key foraging areas established for Southern Residents reflect the work of Ashe et al. (2010), who identified priority feeding areas near southwest San Juan Island, Salmon Bank and Stewart Island, and suggested consideration of a whale protection zone within these feeding areas near southwest San Juan Island.)

    Figure 5. Proposed Southern Resident feeding refuges. Feeding refuges are recommended to enable Southern Residents to forage without competition, noise and disturbance from recreational fishing and whale watching activities between May 1-November 30. Feeding refuges in Canada should include the Southwestern shore of Vancouver Island, Boundary Pass to East Point on Saturna Island, southwest side of North Pender Island, and approaches to the Fraser River. (See Appendix C for enlarged map.)

    DFO’s science-based review identified the high priority need to establish greater access for Southern Residents to Chinook salmon within key foraging habitats.157 It identified measures for greater access to prey through reduced competition from fishers, and reductions in physical and acoustic disturbance from vessels. The review states that areas should be identified and protected for periods of time to provide improved access to Chinook salmon by Southern Residents.
    DFO may deem it preferable to extend the restrictions in the refuges to prohibit not only salmon fishing but all hook and line fisheries, in order to support enforcement and to increase confidence that disturbance is adequately reduced.
    Southern Residents occur within the Salish Sea year-round, but more frequently between the late spring to fall when they target Chinook salmon migrating as spring, summer and fall aggregates to the Fraser River, Georgia Strait, Puget Sound, and other Salish Sea rivers.158
    This measure should apply until there is evidence that it is not needed, i.e. until the health of Southern Residents (as determined by photogrammetry, pregnancies, hormones, vital rates or other proxies) indicates a high likelihood that Southern Residents are recovering. To determine whether this criterion is met, a reviews of this management initiative should be conducted every five years.
    At a Southern Resident prey workshop organized by DFO in 2017, scientists suggested there were likely “thresholds” of Chinook abundance that would promote Southern Resident recovery. It was suggested that tools such as photogrammetry, pregnancies, vital rates or other measures of Southern Resident health could be employed as proxies to determine whether Southern Residents are recovering. Additional research and science based management advice are required to identify and calibrate such proxies and indices, and assess the effectiveness of foraging area closures, and incorporate these findings into recovery measures. Because Southern Resident recovery is expected to take longer than one generation (25 years), reviews of the recommended management measures are unlikely to confirm the likelihood of recovery if conducted more frequently than once every five years. These periodic reviews can also be used to assess the efficacy of the specific feeding refuge locations and adapt them if necessary.
  13. kelly

    kelly Well-Known Member

    First of all, I didn’t say support them or spread their message. I said engage them with meaningful discussions to try and help them understand where they’re misinformed and offer constructive alternatives. That’s how we are going to overcome these issues, not by ignoring them or calling them granola munchers like so many seem to suggest.

    Put together an email that shows their cherry picked data or oversights and explain your views. You’ll get a response and you’d be suprised that often they begin to understand the bigger picture.

    The other thing is that you can’t clump all Conservation NGOs together. They don’t all have the same agenda and they aren’t all trying to shut sportfishing down.
    agentaqua and bigdogeh like this.
  14. Chaster Byng

    Chaster Byng New Member

    Might be worthwhile to move down the food chain and enhance the Salish Sea herring -

    • Reduce the Commercial Herring Fishery
    • Increase Spawning

    That would help the entire food chain... including the Chinook and ultimately the whales.

    We, as sport fisherman, could also stop fishing with herring and anchovies. That would take away that market (albeit a very small part) from the commercial fleet. - Not a popular idea I'm sure.
  15. kelly

    kelly Well-Known Member

    As for this topic, what are the alternatives to shutting down the South Island to sportsfishing to protect SRKW?

    1. Reduce/end commercial Chinook fisheries? The fishery is already pretty small and the majority is relatively sustainable troll caught fish. Little bycatch, big prices per lb and generally not run by the massive Fishing companies. Tough to target them.

    2. Increase hatcheries? We’ve seen that hatcheries generally milk down genetics but Washington and Oregon have produced big numbers and are providing a huge boost to the SRKW. It would not be a quick fix and would require big $$$ but is feasible.

    4. FN in river fisheries. Another tough one to ever shut down but full regulation and accountability would be nice.

    5. Chum fisheries. There is obviously a large commercial Chum fleet that could be targeted but mature chum really are only in the South Island area in numbers for a month or two per year. They don’t play as big of a role in diets.

    6. Whale watching. This is one I’d personally like to see restricted. There are so many boats chasing these whales everyday that it’s become too much. Have area quotas for boats, more area closures for whales to utilize and enforce the distance regulations in place.

    7. Seals/sea lions. Data has shown that they’re now consuming massive amounts of fish. Population management would be a PR nightmares in this day of age. Not likely.

    8. Reduce herring catch. As Chaster Byng suggested, this is one conservation groups and Sportsfisherman have long agreed on. Stop Fishing out the bottom of the food change.

    9. Spawning/habitat restoration. Stop poor logging practices that have decimated a lot of wild coastal systems and caused flooding/drought cycles. This is a big one that has to happen to help wild runs but its a long term project.

    Any other ideas?
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
    wildmanyeah and OutdoorsRep like this.
  16. IronNoggin

    IronNoggin Well-Known Member

    I'd suggest you do a little research before spouting next time around.
    Although I obviously agree with your assessment involving habitat, you are right out to lunch on your comment regarding commercial extraction of springs. I well understand that, as I am one of the very last few still standing (troller). Our quotas have been cut to the point that every single one of us HAS to have another job in order to keep fishing. Our overall removals at this point are actually smaller than those of the recreational fleet. So put a damn sock in it when you don't know, and understand just who is taking what out there these days!

    Sheesh! :confused:
  17. ziggy

    ziggy Well-Known Member

    Well one immediately comes to mind, if you are shutting down the South Island why would you not do the same on the northern part of their migration route? I asked the same thing regarding the different regs between area 20 and area 19 up to 19-5? I'm told it's to protect the Fraser and Cowichan runs, but those runs pass through the other areas prior to getting here? Why are we treating migratory fish like they are resident?
  18. kelly

    kelly Well-Known Member

    This thread was to emphasize that shutting down sportsfishing is not the only answer. I don’t think pushing for further restrictions is going to help anyone.
    searun likes this.
  19. Fishtofino

    Fishtofino Well-Known Member

    More restrictions on South Island sport fishers probably wouldn’t help the Orcas either as they are already cruising up the coast to find fish.
    I’ve seen them more the last few years than ever
  20. ziggy

    ziggy Well-Known Member


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