Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders' (an expert DFO fish scientist) recent estimony

[Englishman]

Guys,

Watershed Watch recently posted this video about Dr. Kristi Miller-Saunders' recent testimony to MP's about the salmon feed lot industry.

Watershed Watch ask us to please share!

 

[Whole in the Water]

Be interested to hear the pro-industry supporters tell us what is wrong with what Dr. Miller-Saunders says in this video. Like how her research is flawed, her credentials are lacking, how she has no right, or basis to say what she does as they do with others who question and bring to light this industry controversial practices, its negative impact on the marine environment and the increasingly unscrupulous relationship it has with the govt.

 

[Dave]

There is nothing wrong with M-S's testimony. Her research is not flawed, her credentials are superb ... and now she is doing what the Harper government would not allow her to do ... talk about the problems she faces. I suggest we wait till she and her colleagues actually have some meaningful data to report as she, Riddell, and many others are working to find answers to the questions we all want answered.
This testimony is not new, simply government doing due diligence in airing this issue and the fact is there is nothing new to report, as yet.

 

[Whole in the Water]

It is NOT govt. doing due diligence - LOL. It is a few dedicated and principled govt. employees that are taking a risk to their careers to speak up about the inappropriate relationship between our political leaders, senior Fed. and Prov. govt. bureaucrats and the foreign owned corporations that fund the political parties to support their unsustainable, and environmentally harmful net pen salmon feedlots.

There is nothing new to report yet because it has been squelched up to this point. It remains to be seen if the govt. leaders will let the truth be known - I tend to doubt it as it is not good for "business".

So that leaves us with concerned citizens to work hard to bring the truth to light and create public pressure to bring needed changes. This has always been the main force for positive change in human history - that is what is not new here!

 

[Dave]

There is nothing new to report yet because it has been squelched up to this point. It remains to be seen if the govt. leaders will let the truth be known - I tend to doubt it as it is not good for "business".

You believe what you like witw; I believe no one will tell Brian Riddell or Miller-Saunders what to say or what to report.

 

[agentaqua]

That's kinda WitW's point, Dave wrt kristi... (re: "few dedicated and principled govt. employees")

 

[Whole in the Water]

You believe what you like witw; I believe no one will tell Brian Riddell or Miller-Saunders what to say or what to report.

I agree it is possible that Riddell may tell it like it is - hope he does and it brings about some positive change!

As for any Fed. or Prov. govt employee - you report out what your work and political bosses allow you to say, or your job/career may be threatened, if you do it too much, for too long. I know - I've seen it. That's how power and control in corporations and govt. is exerted. To think otherwise is naïve.

I admire M-S for her courage and principles and truly hope that she will be able to say it like it is without being edited, or paying some other price for reporting out information that others in power may not like.

 

[Clint r]

I agree it is possible that Riddell may tell it like it is - hope he does and it brings about some positive change!

As for any Fed. or Prov. govt employee - you report out what your work and political bosses allow you to say, or your job/career may be threatened, if you do it too much, for too long. I know - I've seen it. That's how power and control in corporations and govt. is exerted. To think otherwise is naïve.

I admire M-S for her courage and principles and truly hope that she will be able to say it like it is without being edited, or paying some other price for reporting out information that others in power may not like.

Govt only allows us to hear what they want. If you doubt it research thalidomide.

 

[Dave]

Clint r, perhaps you should run for office and make things right.

 

[agentaqua]

or perhaps Clint should do as many of us on here already do - engage w government to help provide and demand oversight and accountability -what citizens in a democracy are supposed to do - if Clint isn't already doing that...

 

[Dave]

or perhaps Clint should do as many of us on here already do - engage w government to help provide and demand oversight and accountability -what citizens in a democracy are supposed to do - if Clint isn't already doing that...

Phfft. Bitching on a fishing forum won't accomplish anything.
Agent, perhaps it's you who should consider politics. You certainly have the brains to sway/convince people, and I think you would excel.
Seriously, have you considered this?

 

[Clint r]

Clint r, perhaps you should run for office and make things right.

Not a chance. Did you research thalidomide? What did you find out?

 

[Clint r]

Phfft. Bitching on a fishing forum won't accomplish anything.
Agent, perhaps it's you who should consider politics. You certainly have the brains to sway/convince people, and I think you would excel.
Seriously, have you considered this?

Why do you have to be like that Dave? Bad day at work? Did you research thalidomide? Simple question. I knew someone that suffered direct consequences of the "thalidomide incident". So believe what you want but I know the govt only tells you what they want you to know.

 

[Klob]

Dave? Daves not here man.

 

[Clint r]

Hahaha. That takes me back.

 

[shuswap]

It is NOT govt. doing due diligence - LOL. It is a few dedicated and principled govt. employees that are taking a risk to their careers to speak up about the inappropriate relationship between our political leaders, senior Fed. and Prov. govt. bureaucrats and the foreign owned corporations that fund the political parties to support their unsustainable, and environmentally harmful net pen salmon feedlots.

There is nothing new to report yet because it has been squelched up to this point. It remains to be seen if the govt. leaders will let the truth be known - I tend to doubt it as it is not good for "business".

So that leaves us with concerned citizens to work hard to bring the truth to light and create public pressure to bring needed changes. This has always been the main force for positive change in human history - that is what is not new here!

This idea that professionals in the department are risking their careers right now regarding their research into this as well as speaking up about relationships has to be balanced with the direction this Federal government has taken regarding talking to the media which is in stark contrast to the previous Federal government. In this case, it was a parliamentary committee so to expect Dr. Miller to not be forthcoming because of fear of reprisals doesn't make sense given that new Federal government wants it's scientists to engage the public, the media and even parliamentarians.

I agree with Dave....These parliamentary committee discussions are public record so whether you want to argue that they are not being diligent enough is your opinion....that's fine, but it's a fact that that they are released to show transparency in the process - something some prominent activists should do themselves.

The Thalidomide argument is silly. Not part of a serious discussion on this. Speculating on conspiracies sounds empowering, but they are more often than not just rhetoric, in my opinion. I'm pretty certain that the people involved in that are not around now making these decisions. However, if some folks still feel like there is still some grand conspiracy going on, like 3 million illegal voters in the US, then I urge them to contact the scientists directly.

http://profiles.science.gc.ca/default.asp?lang=En&n=6505F854-1

Additionally, contact university academia like UBC (Pacific Salmon Ecology and Conservation Laboratory) and Carlton University; non-governmental groups like the Pacific Salmon Foundation; industry (aquaculture companies) and various First Nations involved in collaborative work right now with DFO staff with work that is either directly or indirectly related to aquaculture. Contrary to what some might think, this research is not all about aquaculture although there are aspects in some research that can be applied to it.

It's simply not true that there's nothing new to report because it's being squelched up to this point. Most of this work is multi-year in nature which has actually sparked more questions than it answers. The interaction of many factors doesn't just easily reveal itself. There are lab tests that have not been completed in some cases as well as research that has not been published yet. In some cases, small sample sizes don't allow for big conclusions to be made.

The groups that I have mentioned are more than happy to discuss their work with interested folks. If folks are willing to keep an open mind and ask some thoughtful questions then it could provide a clearer insight to what is going on. By all means be part of the concerned citizens, but it's important to be informed citizens also. If you are truly concerned with the truth of what's going on I have provided you some groups to contact. Whether you chose to follow up is up to you. If some folks are convinced some conspiracy is at play then it won't be very productive to talk with them at all - I wouldn't waste their time in that case.

 

[agentaqua]

Thanks for your well-written post, shuswap. I agree with quite a bit of it.

I would add that it would be naive to think that a mere change in ruling parties and the Prime Minister - substantially changes the administrative functioning and departmental/corporate mentality in any federal department - as much as I welcome the change from the Harper regime. Party politics still precludes elected representatives from truly representing their electorate. The same lobbyists still peddle their wares in Ottawa, and elsewhere. The same PR firms are hard at work engaging and distributing their information via various media sources. The same Deputy Ministers down to Regional Directors still carry-on with their policies and ways of being promoted within every department. There is still the same problems with confusion over duties and protection of industry verses being a "public" servant with the upper echelons of DFO and CFIA.

Don't get me wrong - I am glad Harper and his entourage are gone - and I hope that Trudeau will encourage better governance structures - maybe. But he is a politician, after all.

Unfortunately, our government is broken. Maybe not as broken as the states and other countries - but still - broken.

And it is a tough go for any government employee to stand-up to the corporate mentality from above - and put their career advancement below seeking and telling the truth. I have quite a bit of admiration and respect for Kristi Miller. I don't think she chose the easiest path within DFO....

 

[ziggy]

You know, over the years I have known many people who worked for the government and we're principled committed and would never be brow beat into keeping quiet if they saw a wrong committed. I think they would be very offended and rightfully so,to the sweeping generalisations people make about them towing the party line and putting promotion ahead of principle.

I agree there are lots of lobbyists and spin doctors working the issues. Not only corporate ones but also the fund seekers who need to create conspiracy theories to remain relevant. There is a very high level of competition to garner public donations and embellishment is just one tool used to accomplish it.

I'm sure there are government employees who are worried about their careers, but it would be naieve to suggest those same people don't exist within organisations that exist solely to criticize government as well. The critics need something to criticize otherwise they become irrelevant.

Everyone is free to believe what they want, but as I stated I have known many government employees that would never be cowed into not speaking out! Perhaps I just knew the ones that were good enough at their jobs and confident enough in their abilities to not worry about their career?

 

[agentaqua]

I too have known many decent well-intended government employees, Ziggy - especially in such compartments in DFO like stock assessment. Thank you for pointing that out in your post.

My intent was NOT to slander in any way those employees - and I feel that I shouldn't have to point that out.

However, on top of the many decent well-intended government employees - and indeed all of us Canadians - exists a top-down colonial governance/administration that has been sub-opted through lobbyists and collusion/corruption. It would naive to suggest that this political and financial interference has not worked it's way into proper oversight and regulation of our natural resources. We see it all the time, Ziggy.

In addition to the above influences - every top-heavy administration has it's own corporate mentality and discipline. It's a part of all of the federal departments. That mentality and control does not "reward" going against the flow. I would suggest that Kristi has had to struggle against that flow for some time now...

 

[ziggy]

I agree Agent there are careerists in government as there are in any industry, including the professional protest Industry. People who live off public donations also become careerists. I guess it all comes down to how many? I stand by my opinion based my own personal knowledge, the picture painted of the corrupt, lazy bureacrat is more an urban myth than a truth. Maybe I just knew the good ones.
By the way, I would also take exception to everyone in the environmental movement being branded as,smelly, dope smoking, Art History graduates, that live in their parents basement.
We can assume everyone in government is being muzzled, therefore the truth we know to exist is being hidden. I just don't believe government has the sharps or the ability to destroy anyone who speaks out.