Throw the big Chinook Back... Rec AND Commercial

[anorthernhunter]

Question - and I am NOT stirring the pot,just a simple question.

Since I have fished as a little guy in Campbell River and for all the years I have been going up to Langara in Haida Gwaii I have subscribed to the notion of throwing the big ones 25 + or 30+back as breeding stock.

I and my fishing mentors always saw this as investing in the future (besides the teens are smaller and easier to cook).

Do the commercial guys throw the big ones back too? If so, good. If not - (I know it's their livelyhood) shouldn't they do so?

Again - a simple question as we all do our part for conservation. Northern

 

[outoftowner]

No the commercial guys don't . And while throwing the big guys might make you feel tingly it doesn't do much for conservation.

Also there are not many big guys left. 20 is definitly the new 30.

 

[profisher]

Commercial guys keep all legal fish. I TOTALLY disagree with the comment doesn't do much for conservation. Chinook over 30 pounds have never represented more than 5% of the total Chinook population. (Based on my 40 plus years of keeping records of my catch) Up until recent times all Chinook were exploited as high as 80% by all commercial, recreational and FN fishwries. Take 80% of the 5% and you are down to 1% left for the river. If ALL sectors fished selectively and released those bigger fish it would make a difference.

 

[Prairie Locked]

I have no interest in keeping bigger fish of 20+. I think smaller springs are better eating and the density and thickness of the flesh cooks more evenly.

For the rec fishers, I believe this is a decision that should be made in advance of catching a bigger fish. Then your not left to contemplate it at the last minute.

I’d be curious how releasing a larger fish does nothing for conservation?

 

[N2013]

^^^^^
This.

 

[Whitebuck]

Plus 95% of the big fish that do get released are netted into the boat, fumbled around for a 10 minute photo shot then thrown back into the ocean...easy pickings for the seals and sea lions. Sweet.....you just killed an almost genetic unicorn so you get your face on multi media.
With that being said....ain’t no catch and release with a gillnet!

 

[anorthernhunter]

Again, not trying to stir things up - but... are you really saying that releasing tyees has no beneficial situation to the chinook stocks?? Why so we not keep the 300 lbs hali's then? Why throw the big ones back as they are breeding stock?

All I am asking is - if the general rec angler tosses back the "big-ones" for the sake of conservation - why doesn't the commercial boys do the same

-Northern

 

[Waterwolf2230]

I’m not going to say that I’ve never kept bigger fish but going forward I’ll be stepping onto my offshore bracket and
grabbing the big guys by the tail. Inevitably I’ll lose some doing it that way but like one of the fellas said, have the plan in advance and it makes those decisions easier when you are jacked up. I think for the most part big fish that get netted don’t have much of a chance.

My family and I also much prefer eating fish in the teens.

 

[Stizzla]

Again, not trying to stir things up - but... are you really saying that releasing tyees has no beneficial situation to the chinook stocks?? Why so we not keep the 300 lbs hali's then? Why throw the big ones back as they are breeding stock?

All I am asking is - if the general rec angler tosses back the "big-ones" for the sake of conservation - why doesn't the commercial boys do the same

-Northern

I think the consensus is that many of the large salmon that actually make it to the rivers after years and years of avoiding the deathly obstacles, just get gillnetteted in the rivers anyways. Halibut don’t. That being said I would be happy to release a tyee and get a replica made for my wall.
Prairie Locked is absolutely right that a 10-15lb salmon cooks up so nicely!
It’s a touchy subject for sure, but honestly, how do we stop the river slaughtering?!

 

[outoftowner]

Again, not trying to stir things up - but... are you really saying that releasing tyees has no beneficial situation to the chinook stocks?? Why so we not keep the 300 lbs hali's then? Why throw the big ones back as they are breeding stock?

All I am asking is - if the general rec angler tosses back the "big-ones" for the sake of conservation - why doesn't the commercial boys do the same

-Northern

We throw the big halis back because they are full of worms most of the time and it's Illegal. Most Chinook over 10lbs are breeding stock

I would venture to say most anglers do not throw back the big ones. I don' have the science but I would assume caught and released big Chinook have a high mortality based on how long it typically takes to get one in. Also, that same fish will not be relesed by a commercial troller and will likely end up on a gill net anyway. These fish don't exist anymore. They are basically unicorns. While i think its a noble gesture, That won't change by sporties releasing them

 

[Prairie Locked]

We throw the big halis back because they are full of worms most of the time and it's Illegal. Most Chinook over 10lbs are breeding stock

I would venture to say most anglers do not throw back the big ones. I don' have the science but I would assume caught and released big Chinook have a high mortality based on how long it typically takes to get one in. Also, that same fish will not be relesed by a commercial troller and will likely end up on a gill net anyway. These fish don't exist anymore. They are basically unicorns. While i think its a noble gesture, That won't change by sporties releasing them

I think it boils down to the fact that you can make as many assumptions as you want and you can firmly believe that unicorns are real but the reality is, they aren’t.

I’ve released big fish and had no problems doing it. Proper release techniques should be practiced with not netting them, limited handling and keep them in the water. I doubt mortality is as high as you are assuming.

It’s like Wayne Gretzky said, 100% of retained fish die. Release them and give them a chance. A 25% chance of survival with release is better than 100% odds of dying in retention.

And I also don’t think it’s accurate to assume they will be netted in a river either. There are many that aren’t netted like the Fraser May be.

 

[california]

If the rumoured slot limits are put in place, with a max size of 83 or 85cm we will be forced to release anything over about 16 or 17 lbs anyhow, so the big ones may need to go back. At this point this is only a rumour however. If properly handled most research shows about 10% mortality from the hooking and handling. The obvious likely mortalities are the active bleeders with gill damage, but you can't tell if the fish has suffered some other injury that doesn't pump blood but may effect their ability to feed or evade predators. If there are a lot of sea lions in the area I would suspect there could be higher mortality as they might be able to catch the exhausted fish more easily. Research has shown that average size of chinook has decreased significantly over the last few decades, some of which can be attributed to selection of these larger fish by sport and commercial sectors, but not all the size decline. I know the northern lodges encourage catch and release on the big ones and post pictures of them being released, but I've also seen 50+ fish on the docks at Langara and WCFC, likely fish headed for Rivers Inlet. The reduced size is obviously an issue as smaller females have less eggs, and are less able to spawn in areas with larger gravel.

 

[ericl]

Iv'e got lot's of pictures of over 30# Chinook I killed over the years - I never look at them so for me a picture is worthless. My fondest Chinook memory is a 30#+ that jumped & threw the hook 10 ft off the boat.

Releasing fish w/o taking them outta the water is fine, but if you net a big one, take a picture, throw it back, then retain a smaller one, most likely you have now killed two fish. For all you know the smaller one you killed COULD be a big one in the future.

 

[profisher]

100% of dead fish taken back to shore never spawn

 

[Derby]

Iv'e got lot's of pictures of over 30# Chinook I killed over the years - I never look at them so for me a picture is worthless. My fondest Chinook memory is a 30#+ that jumped & threw the hook 10 ft off the boat.

Releasing fish w/o taking them outta the water is fine, but if you net a big one, take a picture, throw it back, then retain a smaller one, most likely you have now killed two fish. For all you know the smaller one you killed COULD be a big one in the future.

got to agree..my best memories have been the one that got away... hmm they always seem bigger too

 

[Prairie Locked]

I’ve had a couple of cool ones where it’s at the side of the boat with a plug or spoon hanging out of the corner of their mouth. As you’re getting ready to release, they look up at you as the hook drops out and they calmly saunter away. I love those ones.

Maybe it’s just me, but I think it’s really cool to make eye contact with a fish you’re going to release. Kind of spiritual in a way. (Sorry if that sounds corny)

 

[spikeydave]

There was a tagging program done by some northern lodges a few years back, it went on to show that as previous studies there was a 10-15% mortality rate on fish that were handled and released properly. Pretty good odds. We need to get the mindset changed that if I throw a big one back it will get caught or die so I'll keep it. It is genetics, the big ones need to breed to make big fish, pretty cut and dry. Conuma hatchery out of Nootka used to catch the big breeders and keep the genetics strong, a while back with lack of funding they just got their quota of brood stock regardless of size. You used to go to Nootka and catch 30lbers constantly, then it slowly went smaller and smaller to the norm of 20 odd lbers. I was talking to a gent from the hatchery and a few years back they were noticing the smaller fish size returning and started to target the bigger fish. Over the next few years we will hopefully see a stronger return of bigger fish to the river. If we all practice releasing the large genetics then hopefully in time we may build the stocks up, if we continue on the path of kill everything then we will be calling the 25lbers the new tyees. Hardest thing in this world is to change peoples perspectives!

 

[anorthernhunter]

Good points Spikeydave and others.

The mindset to throw the big ones back for various reasons (genetics, spawners, lots of eggs etc) resonates with the
rec anglers ... imagine if the commercial guys were mandated to throw back anything over a certain size ... that
would go along way to help the efforts of the rec anglers to help the recovery.

 

[tincan]

I've certainly bonked my fair share of tyees in the past and, like many on this thread, decided several years ago that I won't be doing that any more for a variety of reasons. An 8lb winter spring is the best eating fish IMO so that's my target for dinner fare nowadays. Tough to find one of those mid-summer so a 12lb spring is a good alternative. The guiding community release a lot of fish given the nature of their work and for the most part they are pretty good at doing so. The survival rate for a 'properly' released fish is very high. I agree that a lot of rec guys have no idea how to release a fish. However, that is changing as more people learn about the value of releasing large chinook. The most important things you can do if you want to successfully release a salmon are:
-Don't overplay the fish. Bring it in quickly if possible
-Keep the fish in the water. Use a gaff/pliers to release the hook.
-If you tail the fish while getting the hook out do not lift the fish up and out of the water by the tail (you damage the caudal peduncle). Support the fish with both hands if you do want to lift the fish up for a pic, etc.
-If the fish is tired spend a minute or two reviving it alongside your moving boat.

Releasing big fish properly does have a significant impact on these rare populations. There are very few large fish left in BC (kalum, wannock) and the remaining few need to be conserved. Once a population is gone (think June hogs from Columbia) they will not be making a comeback. It's nice to see this mentality shift happening in the rec sector but it does take time. Would be great to see the commercial troll fishery release the big springs as well but I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[outoftowner]

There was a tagging program done by some northern lodges a few years back, it went on to show that as previous studies there was a 10-15% mortality rate on fish that were handled and released properly. Pretty good odds. We need to get the mindset changed that if I throw a big one back it will get caught or die so I'll keep it. It is genetics, the big ones need to breed to make big fish, pretty cut and dry. Conuma hatchery out of Nootka used to catch the big breeders and keep the genetics strong, a while back with lack of funding they just got their quota of brood stock regardless of size. You used to go to Nootka and catch 30lbers constantly, then it slowly went smaller and smaller to the norm of 20 odd lbers. I was talking to a gent from the hatchery and a few years back they were noticing the smaller fish size returning and started to target the bigger fish. Over the next few years we will hopefully see a stronger return of bigger fish to the river. If we all practice releasing the large genetics then hopefully in time we may build the stocks up, if we continue on the path of kill everything then we will be calling the 25lbers the new tyees. Hardest thing in this world is to change peoples perspectives!

Nootka hatchery didn't do that because of lack of funding, they did it because that strain of fish was more robust and the science was the returns were better.