This will have a real effect on fishing and hunting.

OldBlackDog

Well-Known Member
VICTORIA — Three decades ago Nisga’a Chief James Gosnell declared in the midst of the national constitutional debate that aboriginal people owned British Columbia “lock, stock and barrel.”

Back then he generated headlines and more than a little outrage and disbelief. Today, thanks to a judgment for the ages from the highest court in the land, we should admit that he was well on the way to being right.

For as Supreme Court of Canada Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin observed Thursday in recognizing title for the Tsilhqot’in people over a sizable chunk of the province, “from their perspective, the land has always been theirs.”

So it was, so it is and so it is destined to remain for all time.

“This gives them the right to determine, subject to the inherent limits of group title held for future generations, the uses to which the land is put and to enjoy its economic fruits,” wrote McLachlin in a decision joined unanimously by seven other judges.

Hers was an up-to-the-moment version of title, not one that would confine native people to the traditional uses of fishing rocks and salt licks: “Like other landowners, Aboriginal titleholders of modern times can use their land in modern ways, if that is their choice.”

But even as she looked to the future, McLachlin rooted her definition of Aboriginal title in the oldest of legal authorities, the English common law, and its equation of ownership with general occupancy of the land: “A general occupant at common law is a person asserting possession of land over which no one else has a present interest or with respect to which title is uncertain.”

The Europeans who settled this province neglected to secure clear title from the owners who were already here. Ironically, they also imported the legal system that allowed those earlier land owners to reassert their rights, albeit more than a century (and counting) later.

Note, too, that the particulars of this case go back to an award of timber cutting rights in 1983, meaning it overlaps with nine premiers and successive Social Credit, New Democrat and B.C. Liberal administrations. B.C. governments of every political stripe have been in denial about the meaning of aboriginal title for a long time.

While the specifics of the ruling only apply to the claim brought by the Tsilhqot’in, the high court provided a guide for other First Nations seeking similar recognition over their traditional territories.

The onus is on them to demonstrate that they occupied their traditional territories in sufficient fashion, continuously and exclusively. The Tsilhqot’in were able to do that in a remote valley with no overlapping claims from other First Nations. Pointedly, they also excluded private property from their claim.

Not all of the province’s 200 recognized First Nations may be able to meet the test in like fashion. But one can expect that many will, with significant consequences for the province and its economy.

There was some concern that the high court might write the province out of the picture because land reserved for First Nations is federal jurisdiction. But McLachlin preserved the provincial jurisdiction over management of resources, albeit in stunted fashion where it would run up against aboriginal title.

Valid: “Legislation aimed at managing the forests in a way that deals with pest invasions or prevents forest fires.” Not valid: “The issuance of timber licences on Aboriginal title land for a direct transfer of Aboriginal property rights to a third party.”

The latter may have every forest company and other holders of timber cutting rights wondering if they’ll soon be negotiating with a new landlord.

The judgment did indicate that the federal and provincial governments could encroach on aboriginal land for projects in the broader public interest. Examples cited: “The development of agriculture, forestry, mining, and hydroelectric power, the general economic development of the interior of British Columbia, protection of the environment or endangered species, the building of infrastructure and the settlement of foreign (meaning non-native) populations to support those aims.”

Even then, governments would have to consult extensively, minimize infringement, compensate adequately, and be prepared to prove they have met those standards in court.

Thus the provincial authority over land and resources is substantially diminished and First Nations would appear to have secured a near veto over development within their traditional territories.

Welcome to the new B.C., where the rule of law now incorporates a delicate balance between European and aboriginal concepts of rights and title. Still it is recognizably the rule of law.

Thinking back to the comment at the outset of this column, Chief Gosnell has long since gone to meet his maker and his Nisga’a people have since made a treaty. Before he died in 1988, Chief Gosnell had this to say about the meaning of his words.

“When I said we owned the place, lock, stock and barrel, nobody asked me, ‘Jimmy, what do you mean by that?’ he told journalist author Terry Glavin. “Well it’s the beginning point of negotiations. That’s what it is. We own the whole thing. You want my land? Let’s negotiate.”

Then it was an invitation, perhaps even a dare. In the new British Columbia defined by the Supreme Court of Canada, there’s no longer any choice. Lets get on with it.

vpalmer@vancouversun.com

Follow me: @VaughnPalmer


© Copyright (c) The Vancouver Sun
 
Coming soon--- decreased access to some of your favorite hunting and fishing areas.....
 
Read on.... That’s what one Tsilhqot’in Nation community attempted in 1989, after a Prince George-based forest products company submitted to the B.C. government a plan to log blocks of forest on territory used by their people but considered by governments as Crown land.

In response, the Xeni Gwet’in declared the area off limits to commercial exploration, logging, mining and road building. Henceforth, they said, non-natives could ask permission to “come and view and photograph our beautiful land,” and hike and camp subject to “our system of permits.”


Ka-Ching!

And more..... http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...ng-implications-for-canadian-energy-projects/

No doom and gloom-- Its reality now and the next generation will have to deal with it....
 
I'm so happy we live in a country where everyone born here is treated with equality.... (sarcasm)
 
Make no mistake,equality has never been the FN's intentions.They intend to rule this land and everything and everyone in it.If you thought the "slipper skippers" were bad,you ain't seen nothin' yet!By the time this is over they'll be charging
us by the pound for every fish that comes out of THEIR OCEAN.That will be the day I hang up the rods for good.Sad
day indeed.
 
Your two nicknames should be Doom and Gloom........ :)

Just more reality:

Q: How does all of this affect Crown land owned by the government on behalf of the B.C. public?

A: “The court reconfirmed an existing principle that has been established some time ago, that aboriginal title predates Crown title,” said David Bursey, who leads the aboriginal law group in the firm Bull Housser.

That means much of B.C.’s Crown land is “in play” for First Nations that want to pursue title claims, said Isaac.

Nothing changes immediately, he said, and for anything to happen on the land, first an aboriginal group has to win a title claim or sign a treaty.

“British Columbia must be very thoughtful in its reaction to this, and whatever its answer is it has to be sustainable over the long term,” said Bursey. “The issue isn’t going away and there won’t be a quick fix to this.”

More than 94 per cent of land in B.C. is considered Crown land.

B.C. is now limited in what action it can take on Crown land — whether logging, mining or other resource extraction — when that land is subject to a strong title claim by a nearby First Nation, Nouvet said. The stronger the claim, the more consultation and accommodation is required by government, the court ruled.

“If a First Nation has a strong aboriginal title claim and the government is contemplating approving a mine that would wreck an area, I would say under this decision that is not allowed,” said Nouvet.

Q: What about Crown land already being used for a purpose? Or even a provincial park?

A: There’s nothing stopping a First Nation from claiming title over Crown land currently being used, or over a park.

“In theory parks are up for grabs in an aboriginal title claim,” said Nouvet. “The First Nation, if it wins, would get to decide how they want to use the land, and the First Nation would not be confined to keeping it as a park.

 
Who else could see a Harper government making a deal under these rules with first nations to rescind a national park and then share the resource wealth discovered to be there? Not probable but a loophole now exists.
 
Not really worries about out this I think hunting and fishing can coexist with first nations. We both need each other.... Each one benefits the other. Some ****** things have happened but if this stops the pipeline I am all for it...
 
CL I see Jerry and yourself love you new nicknames..... LOL :) Going to have to get new decals for your boat..... I always thought Statler and Waldorf was more suiting for you two... LMAO :)

 
OK-- thats your funny for the day..... But now to get serious.... do you REALLY think that our kids will have the same access as in the past? Read the part about Crown Lands........ and LEHs???? They belong to First Nations now because they come first and its their land.
 
Not really worries about out this I think hunting and fishing can coexist with first nations. We both need each other.... Each one benefits the other. Some ****** things have happened but if this stops the pipeline I am all for it...

Yup, but only if you can afford it. It will never be the same once they get their hands on it. Same as resourse extraction, companies will pay to work on "Indian Land" because they will still get the resourses, but it will cost more, which will be passed on to us, so in reality everything will go up. Dig deep everyone because the cost of living here in BC will go up.....again

Cannot see where they need us, except to pay more to access land that has been everyones, and I sure as hell do not see where I need them.

One law for everyone and everone treated the same. Gets rid of all the BS that has slowly been destroying this great country.

Sad times are a head, especially for our children.

Cheers

SS
 
This thing is a total nightmare.And yes I agree that it should have been one law for everyone right from the beginning,but our forefathers didn't play it that way,and now here we are.To think this won't affect every single one of us drastically
in the future is being totally delusional.
 
There comes a point with everything and anything - where the past simply has to be the past and time to move on.
 
There comes a point with everything and anything - where the past simply has to be the past and time to move on.

So I guess you would just let it go that a your children were removed from you and put in residential schools being treated worse than an animals, raped, starved, beaten? You would forget that your were treated like savages? I guess we should all forgive Hitler too for what he did, its the past.
I may not agree with what they are asking for as I do not know all the issues, but an ignorant statement because you may have limited access to an area for recreation! I guess being removed from your home and being placed on a reserve is nothing compared to losing a hunting area, or having to request permission to hunt an area.

Maybe do a google search on residential schools, or read some of the history on how the natives in Canada were treated. Ya they have an f-you attitude, wouldn't you?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/a-history-of-residential-schools-in-canada-1.702280

or try reading " the history of the county of Peterborough, Ontario"

The funny thing is that, what our government doing today in regards to our land, pipelines, salmon farming, mines... is because they KNOW better, just like they did back then. History has a way of repeating itself.




BTW I am not native
 
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i sincerely hope your first nations are better stuarts of what they have been granted than the tribes of WA state. down this way, these folks are all about green backs and raping the resources. hopefully your indigenous peoples can look south and learn something about how not to behave.
 
i sincerely hope your first nations are better stuarts of what they have been granted than the tribes of WA state. down this way, these folks are all about green backs and raping the resources. hopefully your indigenous peoples can look south and learn something about how not to behave.

They were taught by the government so I would say no difference! and in no way am I trying to stand on a high horse and cry out for native rights, I am saying there is more to the picture that what some people think. The government made this mess now they have to clean it up at a cost to all Canadians unfortunately.
 
Yes, there were lots of things that happened, but if you want to use history then you have to go to what the natives,did to each other.
Just look at what the Haida nation did!





So I guess you would just let it go that a your children were removed from you and put in residential schools being treated worse than an animals, raped, starved, beaten? You would forget that your were treated like savages? I guess we should all forgive Hitler too for what he did, its the past.
I may not agree with what they are asking for as I do not know all the issues, but an ignorant statement because you may have limited access to an area for recreation! I guess being removed from your home and being placed on a reserve is nothing compared to losing a hunting area, or having to request permission to hunt an area.

Maybe do a google search on residential schools, or read some of the history on how the natives in Canada were treated. Ya they have an f-you attitude, wouldn't you?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/a-history-of-residential-schools-in-canada-1.702280

or try reading " the history of the county of Peterborough, Ontario"

The funny thing is that, what our government doing today in regards to our land, pipelines, salmon farming, mines... is because they KNOW better, just like they did back then. History has a way of repeating itself.




BTW I am not native
 
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Yes, there were lost of things that happened, but if you want to use history then you have to go to what the natives,did to each other.
Just look at what the Haida nation did!
Its called selective History. We wouldn't want anyone to know that the Haidas were slavers and savages......That just wouldn't be convenient in court.(sarcasm) Much better to only look at one side of the coin with the British and the other FN's. Unfortunately for all native BC'ers (anyone born here) the province is no longer yours, it now belongs to 3% of the population
 
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