The other side of the fence.

[medherring]

Birdsnest - read DC Reid's article below, and the rest of you - share it on your social media pages, and tell nancy.raine@sen.parl.gc.ca that you're not happy with her decisions.


http://commonsensecanadian.ca/first...lternative-open-net-fish-farms/#comment-70676

"Dr. Kristi Miller, on the Cohen record, showed that 25% of farmed chinook in Clayoquot Sound had both HSMI and ISA (both are Norwegian diseases that should not be in the North Pacific – DFO let them in on eggs). That is roughly 125,000 per farm. There are 22 farms in Clayoquot Sound, and it is a UN biosphere reserve."

wow, I would be interested to read more about this.

 

[fogged in]

Birdsnest,
Oh by the way, an upper end restaurant, whose owner I know, told me just recently that they occasionally receive in their order an Atlantic Salmon that has flesh so soft they have to through it away!
Can you explain that problem to me?

BIRDSNEST....In the interest of enlightenment...will you please answer my question above.
I am, told it is a fairly rare, but reoccurring event.

 

[Birdsnest]

Kudoa

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/enviro/aquaculture/rd2011/rdsalmon-saumon-eng.html

 

[chris73]

You are welcome to believe that what ever you wish about me. What nobody has done is proven any facts in my last links are wrong. And nobody has provided one real life case scenario where the peer reviewed papers claims apply. Not once. If the perceived devastation was eminent than you think we would have seen at least on single example over the last 30 years. Nobody seem to be able to do this. Of course there is an impact but it has to be shown to be greater than minimal and this has yet to be done.

Not a single example of devastation? Huh? Where have you been hiding? Not heard about dozens of devastating decease outbreaks that killed millions of fish? Chile?Not heard what happened to wild salmon stocks in Norway or Scotland? Or our east coast salmon? Not seen the pictures of salmon juveniles loaded over and over with sea lice when passing by farm pens? Go back under your couch and be ashamed.

 

[Birdsnest]

"Dr. Kristi Miller, on the Cohen record, showed that 25% of farmed chinook in Clayoquot Sound had both HSMI and ISA (both are Norwegian diseases that should not be in the North Pacific – DFO let them in on eggs). That is roughly 125,000 per farm. There are 22 farms in Clayoquot Sound, and it is a UN biosphere reserve."

wow, I would be interested to read more about this.

There have been many many Atlantic introductions to the pacific since the early 1800's. If PRV and isa have not killed wiped out pacific salmon over the last 100 years then I would say that it is an unlikely event. I may add that the isa/prv discoveries are controversial. Never the less having the virus is a far cry from showing signs of disease.

Common sense Canadian eh. Hmmm. Don't forget to donate!

 

[Birdsnest]

Not a single example of devastation? Huh? Where have you been hiding? Not heard about dozens of devastating decease outbreaks that killed millions of fish? Chile?Not heard what happened to wild salmon stocks in Norway or Scotland? Or our east coast salmon? Not seen the pictures of salmon juveniles loaded over and over with sea lice when passing by farm pens? Go back under your couch and be ashamed.

Spoken like a true follower. If that's what you believe full your boots but I would suggest that your anger is a reaction of the fear your being fed. Understandable.

 

[Sculpin]

Thread is kinda timely IMO. Same time as the successful launch of the First Nations project from land here on the Island that is in the media right now......

Lot's of tax payer's dollars thrown at that project as well. Just like the on water farms. Kinda weird that the article focused on the investment thing by some religious group. Side trackin' much ?.

Nervous?...........

 

[SpringVelocity]

You know the guys that designed that land based project are right near you in Nanaimo Sculpin?

PR Aqua http://www.praqua.com/ who put that in north island is very respected engineering company. I had the pleasure of meeting them several years ago and they know their stuff when it comes to the design of aquaculture containment systems. http://www.namgis.bc.ca/CCP/Pages/default.aspx

What is the fear if it works? I am not getting it. Its is good thing for farmers and the environment. I wish PR aqua and the first nations well and bringing this to life...

 

[Sculpin]

You know the guys that designed that land based project are right near you in Nanaimo Sculpin?

PR Aqua http://www.praqua.com/ who put that in north island is very respected engineering company. I had the pleasure of meeting them several years ago and they know their stuff when it comes to the design of aquaculture containment systems. http://www.namgis.bc.ca/CCP/Pages/default.aspx

What is the fear if it works? I am not getting it. Its is good thing for farmers and the environment. I wish PR aqua and the first nations well and bringing this to life...

They are not in Nanaimo anymore. Do some research (i.e. several years ago). There office may be in Nanaimo.

The almighty buck got to them as well .

 

[SpringVelocity]

The ‘Namgis farm is set to harvest their first batch of Atlantic salmon in a few weeks (the fish will be marketed as “KUTERRA” salmon). This event will undoubtedly be celebrated and marketed as a “first of its kind”. It isn’t the first: salmon farmers have been growing Atlantic salmon to market size in land-based farms for years now.

If you guys have been doing it for years why don't you all just do it?
That's a direct quote from the link basically slandering the namgis First Nation

Because the operating costs are too high for them. So in turn cost per pound of fish must go up to make it work. Honestly that seems to me what this about. It keeps getting twisted by farming industry around like it won't work.... But problem lies with the consumer in what they will pay per pound to have land based farming...

I still find it interesting how the government shelled at major dollars for up island land based farm development.

 

[SpringVelocity]

They are not in Nanaimo anymore. Do some research (i.e. several years ago). There office may be in Nanaimo.

The almighty buck got to them as well .

R and D as far as I know has not moved. But thanks I will have to check that out I haven't heard from them since x-mas. It's possible they are listed under In-sutu name. That kind of sucks if what you are saying is true they had a big operation.

If they moved it would have been last few months.

 

[Sculpin]

R and D as far as I know has not moved. But thanks I will have to check that out I haven't heard from them since x-mas. It's possible they are listed under In-sutu name. That kind of sucks if what you are saying is true they had a big operation.

If they moved it would have been last few months.

I'm talking their fiberglass operations.

 

[Gear'n'beer!]

Because the operating costs are too high for them. So in turn cost per pound of fish must go up to make it work. Honestly that seems to me what this about. It keeps getting twisted by farming industry around like it won't work.... But problem lies with the consumer in what they will pay per pound to have land based farming...

I still find it interesting how the government shelled at major dollars for up island land based farm development.

Well if the money doesn't work then perhaps the industry should fold up shop and move to china or some other polluting country who doesn't care about their oceans well being

 

[SpringVelocity]

I'm talking their fiberglass operations.

that sucks I didn't know that.... I thought that was still here. Just can't keep work here....

 

[fogged in]

Kudoa

http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/science/enviro/aquaculture/rd2011/rdsalmon-saumon-eng.html

Hat's off to Birdsnest.
He is willing to admit that his Atlantic Salmon going to market do from time to time carry disease, non threatening to humans I assume, but diseased non the less.
"Soft-flesh syndrome presents a significant challenge to the fish–farming industry by compromising product quality and lending to a negative consumer stigma of farmed fish products. In farm–reared Atlantic Salmon (Salmo salar) the most common cause of soft-flesh is a parasitic infection by Kudoa thyrsites."
Thanks for the clarification Birdsnest!

 

[rockdog]

Gross.
One of the many reasons I spread the word about farmed salmon whenever I can. At the store, friends, strangers about to buy it, deli workers.........

 

[agentaqua]

Hat's off to Birdsnest.
He is willing to admit that his Atlantic Salmon going to market do from time to time carry disease, non threatening to humans I assume, but diseased non the less.
"Soft-flesh syndrome presents a significant challenge to the fish–farming industry by compromising product quality and lending to a negative consumer stigma of farmed fish products. In farm–reared Atlantic Salmon (Salmo salar) the most common cause of soft-flesh is a parasitic infection by Kudoa thyrsites."
Thanks for the clarification Birdsnest!

PBS Nanaimo was doing what they called "research" on this disease. The biggest problem was that they were using a flow-through system WITH NO TREATMENT ON THE EFFLUENT END! This means they created a nexus of microsporidian infective stages at the pipe end in Nanaimo harbour - where wild springs, coho and other salmonids swim by and could contact the plume. I don't know if they changed this - but it was been going on for years. Nobody in PBS appeared concerned about this. It is indicative of the institutionalized myopic arrogance of DFOs aquaculture branch.

 

[agentaqua]

There have been many many Atlantic introductions to the pacific since the early 1800's. If PRV and isa have not killed wiped out pacific salmon over the last 100 years then I would say that it is an unlikely event. I may add that the isa/prv discoveries are controversial. Never the less having the virus is a far cry from showing signs of disease.

Common sense Canadian eh. Hmmm. Don't forget to donate!

Yes BN - most of those were juvies introduced into watersheds with abundant steelhead numbers at that time. Today there has been many adult escapees and we have found 2 year old Atlantic salmon fry/parr in many rivers in BC. That means they survived past their first year. The systems that have this - also have depressed numbers of steelhead. Volpe's peer-reviewed work demonstrated that steelhead and Atlantic salmon are the most likely interspecies competition of the Atlantic salmon invasion of native Pacific watersheds. This is because the steelhead fry and the Atlantic salmon occupy the same habitat. Atlantic salmon have large pectoral fins that they jam into the substrate to stay on station in fast flow areas - the same areas that steelhead fry use. If there are large numbers of resident wild steelhead fry already there - the Atlantic fry have a hard time gaining a fin-hold. If not - there is an opening. That is what has happened in many streams on Northern Vancouver Island adjacent to the farm areas.

 

[agentaqua]

It is tougher for closed containment to be successful - financially - at this time. That is because they have to compete with the open net-pen industry - which is much larger, more established - and gets free sewerage and free pumping from the ocean and the taxpayer. Many other posters have already commented on this fact.

If we eliminated the open net-cage technology - we would be left with only closed containment. There would be no competition - and that's the way the industry would function - successfully. The deck is currently stacked against new closed containment facilities due to the capital costs, and the pumping costs. Having said this - there are niche markets that some have been able to take advantage of. Over time - the closed containment industry will slowly grow. We need to phase-out the open net-cage technology - starting where there is large risk to outmigrating salmon smolts - areas like the Discovery Islands and the Broughtons.

 

[agentaqua]

This is what I have been reading. I have not seen you down playing any of these topics in any of the others threads. Why now? I'm disappointed your not on the other threads on the same topic name calling on those who dare post such info.

You know BN - it is not a crime to think for yourself. Quoting the dribble from the BCSFA and their paid PR firms does not demonstrate any credibility for your responses. I don't have the time nor the inclination to respond to all the dribble in all the threads all over the internet.

The fact that you jump on the revised 2014 forecast for Fraser summer-run sockeye as some sort of vindication that the open net-pen industry is exonerated of it's potential and realized impacts to wild salmon would be laughable except that is the message that our public and politicians get from the industry. It only demonstrates your and your industry's arrogance and ignorance.

There are many hundreds of watersheds across BC. There are 5 species of Pacific salmon - 6 including steelhead. In many larger watersheds - there are many different run timings and specific populations for each species. There is a policy - not fully implemented by DFO - called the Wild Salmon policy. In it - it talks about CUs (Conservation Units - effectively separate populations of each species by watershed) and how to determine conservation benchmarks. It is obvious that you and your industry are either ignorant of this policy or wish others to remain so.

To gleefully state that all is well with your industry because of this years forecast for Fraser summer-run sockeye is above average - only demonstrates your ignorance of wild salmon stocks.