The Future of Fish Farms ????

part 3

4. Relevant risk factors for emergence of HPRΔ (ToR 2b)
There is an evolutionary relationship between virulent and low-virulence forms of ISAV, whereby HPR0 possibly through several steps mutates into a virulent form of the ISAV. However, no predisposing risk factors have been demonstrated or suggested to drive or increase such an evolutionary process. Hence, there is a lack of knowledge on specific risk factors for HPRΔ emergence from HPR0. The available evidence on transmission within populations and spread between populations and control thereof is almost entirely based on studies of HPRΔ (ISAV); however, the observations from the Faroe Islands and Norway have provided some insight into the dynamics of HPR0.

4.2. HPRdelta emergence from endemic HPR0 infection
Fish susceptibility to virulent viruses may be modulated by acquired immunity. HE is a major antigen of ISAV and contributes to stimulating a protective immune response (see Section 2.4). Previous infections with ISAV, like vaccination with attenuated viruses, may induce a level of protection against subsequent infections with the same or other ISAV variants. The possibility that a subclinical infection with HPR0 might prevent or mitigate subsequent infections with virulent variants has not been investigated.

Industrialised farming of salmon is exposed to a range of environmental challenges, such as high density, low physical activity, water with periodically suboptimal oxygen levels and changing temperatures, intensive feeding and growth rate, and handling. Such exposures may be regarded as chronic or temporary stress inducers, harming their defence mechanisms and aggravating disease outbreak dynamics, as well as potentially influencing the evolution and replication ability of the infectious agents themselves. Moreover, high-density farming increases the number of possible infectious contacts whereby an infection and disease in a single salmon can become a communicable disease in an industrialised high-density setting.

CONCLUSIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS

GENERAL CONCLUSIONS
Atlantic salmon is the only species in which the disease ISA has been observed naturally.

ISAV can be genetically differentiated on the basis of the sequence of an HPR of genomic segment 6 which encodes the HE protein.

Initial reports of findings of ISAV before 2002 did not distinguish between HPR0 and HPRΔ, making interpretation of older findings more difficult in the light of current knowledge.

A single observation of HPR0 ISAV in wild Atlantic salmon indicates that the virus may exist outside the farmed salmon population.

TOR 1 THE CAPABILITY OF HPR0 ISAV TO CAUSE CLINICAL DISEASE.

HPR0 ISAV does not cause clinical disease in Atlantic salmon.

It is known that HPR0 ISAV causes a transient subclinical infection and replicates mainly in gills.

There is currently no evidence indicating that HPR0 ISAV leads to natural infection and replication in fish species other than Atlantic salmon.

TOR 2 THE RISK OF HPR-DELETED ISA EMERGING FROM HPR0 ISA AND, IF RELEVANT, INDICATING FACTORS FOR SUCH AN EMERGENCE.

2a Risk of HPRΔ emerging from HPR0
All virulent ISAV have deletions in the HPR region of the HE gene and they have either an insertion or the Q266L mutation in the F gene. Transitional viruses having only one of the HE or F mutations have not been found.

The most plausible hypothesis is that virulent ISAV (HPRΔ) is derived from HPR0 ISAV.

The close association between genetic relatedness and the spatio-temporal distance of virus strains in solitary outbreaks further supports the hypothesis that virulent ISAV evolve from HPR0-ISAV.

Epidemiological and historical data from solitary disease outbreaks indicate that the risk of emergence of virulent ISAV is low but not negligible.

2b Risk factors
There is a lack of knowledge on risk factors for HPRΔ emergence from HPR0.

The risk of emergence of HPRΔ ISAV and subsequent development of disease can be expected to be related to the overall replication rate of HPR0 ISAV and the presence of susceptible hosts Any factor that affects replication or host susceptibility would therefore also influence the risk of emergence of HPRΔ ISAV.

RECOMMENDATION
Baseline monitoring is needed to estimate the prevalence of ISAV HPR0 in farmed Atlantic salmon and wild fish in proximity to farming facilities.

The whole opinion can be found here:
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/efsajournal/doc/2971.pdf

BTW... I actually read every word of what I post! Hell... sometimes I actually write them! :)
 
sometimes I actually write them!

I see that.

So salmon farming has been around for 30 some years. Based on all this information why has there not been a masive die of of farm fish here yet from this "ISAv". I think we could all agree that atlantics are the "canary in a coal mine".

Do you really think that the government is just hands down covering this up?

Then just do a search and you will find Mainstream (majority owned by the country of Norway) has already acknowledged the European strain of ISAv was transported to Chile by the Atlantic feedlot industry!

That is no secret. They did not have the proper protocols in place to avoid it along with a few other issues. They have had a drastic restructuring.
 
I see that.

So salmon farming has been around for 30 some years. Based on all this information why has there not been a masive die of of farm fish here yet from this "ISAv". I think we could all agree that atlantics are the "canary in a coal mine".

Do you really think that the government is just hands down covering this up?

Your canaries are actually dying... would you mind having them tested by a certified lab, usung certified procedures, and let the public know the lab results? Also, do you realize when asked Canada refused providing those positive ISAv samples to the U.S. stating they were to degraded to test? Please note there... Yep, right the samples were to degraded to let the U.S. test; however, not to degraded for Canada, CFAI, and DFO to use to try to discredit the others?

You have had "massive" [open to interpatation] die. Just what is that virus DFO refers to SLv?

"covering this up" I have actually written and have had two articles published. The first person to use the term "salmongate" in an article I wrote and do believe those two articles sums my feelings on that topic - clearly! Read those Cohen reports!!!!!!!!!

That is no secret. They did not have the proper protocols in place to avoid it along with a few other issues. They have had a drastic restructuring.
The queston was referring to fish feedlots spreading disease. The answer to that is YES!!!!! You do realize that Coho die off was the NA ISA virus, right? Now how do you suppose both the EU and NA strains of ISAv ended up in CHILE????

Concerning the "drastic restructuring" - Agreed the (goverment) of Chile certainly has required and made some needed changes. Please also note that was after those Norway fish lots pulled out - leaving Chile holding the bag!
 
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I am always trying to learn as much as I can about it. Unfortunately it is not my position or job to fully understand it all but I do have an opinion which is subject to change.


So....with all that Charlie posted are you really open to changing your opinion Birdsnest?

We care about wild salmon around here. You've given up on them, you only fish Tuna! You got some inside info?
 
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I am always trying to learn as much as I can about it. Unfortunately it is not my position or job to fully understand it all but I do have an opinion which is subject to change.


So....with all that Charlie posted are you really open to changing your opinion Birdsnest?

We care about wild salmon around here. You've given up on them, you only fish Tuna! You got some inside info?


I always found it pretty ironic mr tuna was a salmon farmer. lol

Lorne
 
I find it funny how one dead sea lion makes the news, when so many get blasted every year by fishfarmers. (http://www.timescolonist.com/techno...estigated+Fisheries+Oceans/7611649/story.html) Birdsnest and Dave, How many have you guys shot??.....what do you usually do with all the dead carcasses?
LOL!! Well, the last few I killed I trolled behind my boat, hoping for transient Orca or two.

Seriously, I’m not a fish farmer ... I’m a retired Senior Research Technician from DFO’s Science Branch, spending 37 years based out of the Cultus Lake Laboratory. Among other duties I provided technical support to both DFO and university scientists and for about 15 years was involved in sampling Fraser River sockeye for stressors relating to pre spawning mortalities and disease.
 
LOL!! Well, the last few I killed I trolled behind my boat, hoping for transient Orca or two.

Seriously, I’m not a fish farmer ... I’m a retired Senior Research Technician from DFO’s Science Branch, spending 37 years based out of the Cultus Lake Laboratory. Among other duties I provided technical support to both DFO and university scientists and for about 15 years was involved in sampling Fraser River sockeye for stressors relating to pre spawning mortalities and disease.

Do you cut plug them or fish em whole?? :D

Interesting how you've worked for DFO and you seem to take a pro-fishfarm stance.....
 
I have never shot a sealion or seal. And I am happy to say that predators, where I work, have not been shot for over 10 years and we have not had one death for a very a long time due to proper predator nets and rigging which they can not get caught in. One thing for certain, where there are sea lions there are fish for them to eat and thats all they do. I love sealions but I cant eat a whole one. lol

We care about wild salmon around here. You've given up on them, you only fish Tuna! You got some inside info?

It wasn't the hottest year for salmon I now know so I went for some of the columbia's in the spring and then I usually don't fish until into the first week of august when the fishing gets really hot. But it just never got really hot this year so I just didn't fishem. The tuna thing is new and exciting and can only be done on immaculate weather days so thats what I prefer. In all honesty I have fished salmon for alot of years and I am fortunate to do that so whats the purpose in me going out and hammering the salmon every year like I could. I am not that interested in it. I could bust out a sustainability comparison between the tuna fishing and salmon fishing in which case the tuna fishing is far more sustainable(based on populations)(gas not included) but thats not where I am coming from. As far as what charlie says well he is obviously resourceful but I am now pretty convinced that he is pure campaigner/activist so no he is not swaying my opinion much. His mind is made up like many regardless of some of unknowns that he creatively looks past IMO. I would guess he is far smarter and informed than myself overall but I cant help but to notice in his style that he is on the campaign trail. I do care about salmon stocks but I do not use the term "wild" lightly. There are substantial differences between wild and hatchery salmon and I think that it is important to separate the two to better understand and identify the difference. Lumping the two together is a mistake. Salmongate....what a laugh. Thats excessive propaganda tactic if I ever saw it! Typical of activists to compare salmon farms to tobacco, asbestos and now Watergate. Silly antics. Thanks to staniford tho for he made it clear that as long as you truly believe it, you can say it how ever you like.
 
LOL!! Well, the last few I killed I trolled behind my boat, hoping for transient Orca or two.

Seriously, I’m not a fish farmer ... I’m a retired Senior Research Technician from DFO’s Science Branch, spending 37 years based out of the Cultus Lake Laboratory. Among other duties I provided technical support to both DFO and university scientists and for about 15 years was involved in sampling Fraser River sockeye for stressors relating to pre spawning mortalities and disease.

For someone wiht that kind of back ground i wish you would offer a bit more to the debat ethen the usual 2 or 3 sentences...
 
Do you cut plug them or fish em whole?? :D

Interesting how you've worked for DFO and you seem to take a pro-fishfarm stance.....
Good to see you have a sense of humour hambone! Actually there a few of us ex and current DFO people who post about the upside of salmon farming in BC; some even do so on this site when discussions get boring on other forums.
 
I have never shot a sealion or seal. And I am happy to say that predators, where I work, have not been shot for over 10 years and we have not had one death for a very a long time due to proper predator nets and rigging which they can not get caught in. One thing for certain, where there are sea lions there are fish for them to eat and thats all they do. I love sealions but I cant eat a whole one. lol



It wasn't the hottest year for salmon I now know so I went for some of the columbia's in the spring and then I usually don't fish until into the first week of august when the fishing gets really hot. But it just never got really hot this year so I just didn't fishem. The tuna thing is new and exciting and can only be done on immaculate weather days so thats what I prefer. In all honesty I have fished salmon for alot of years and I am fortunate to do that so whats the purpose in me going out and hammering the salmon every year like I could. I am not that interested in it. I could bust out a sustainability comparison between the tuna fishing and salmon fishing in which case the tuna fishing is far more sustainable(based on populations)(gas not included) but thats not where I am coming from. As far as what charlie says well he is obviously resourceful but I am now pretty convinced that he is pure campaigner/activist so no he is not swaying my opinion much. His mind is made up like many regardless of some of unknowns that he creatively looks past IMO. I would guess he is far smarter and informed than myself overall but I cant help but to notice in his style that he is on the campaign trail. I do care about salmon stocks but I do not use the term "wild" lightly. There are substantial differences between wild and hatchery salmon and I think that it is important to separate the two to better understand and identify the difference. Lumping the two together is a mistake. Salmongate....what a laugh. Thats excessive propaganda tactic if I ever saw it! Typical of activists to compare salmon farms to tobacco, asbestos and now Watergate. Silly antics. Thanks to staniford tho for he made it clear that as long as you truly believe it, you can say it how ever you like.

YOu are now convinced he is a campigner and an activist because he is smart and resourceful? Unreal.... and typical i guess. Can you please tell me WHO could sway your opinion? I am pretty sure the answer is nobody.
 
For someone wiht that kind of back ground i wish you would offer a bit more to the debat ethen the usual 2 or 3 sentences...
After a while, being told to go home to mommy, shut up or f off takes it's toll; why bother discussing fish farms when it seems most on this site have their minds fully made up that farms are the reason for the declination of wild salmonid populations? What could I possibly say that would change your stance?
If you want lots of cut and pasted sentences you have Charlie for that.
 
After a while, being told to go home to mommy, shut up or f off takes it's toll; why bother discussing fish farms when it seems most on this site have their minds fully made up that farms are the reason for the declination of wild salmonid populations? What could I possibly say that would change your stance?
If you want lots of cut and pasted sentences you have Charlie for that.

Ive actually never seen you add anything of real value. Thats all. It is very hard to change my opinion because the science against FF is so great. But I am open to changing my opinion if the "facts" and "science" help me get there. I have yet to meet anyone on the Pro FF side that has a leg to stand on. I am very pro business, and would like nothing more then for Fish farms to be safe, and sustainable, and good for everyone and everything. Maybe you are that guy?
 
YOu are now convinced he is a campigner and an activist because he is smart and resourceful

Another basic example of the copious amounts of assumptions here about me. I never said that, you assumed it.
 
Good to see you have a sense of humour hambone! Actually there a few of us ex and current DFO people who post about the upside of salmon farming in BC; some even do so on this site when discussions get boring on other forums.

Interesting... Well I clearly think that salmon farms are a disaster but unlike many other people the tipping point for me came directly from the mouth of a longtime DFO employee. We had a great chat and I asked many questions in which I wanted unbiased answers. This person said they feel there isn't much they can do, but there is DEFINITELY reason to be very worried about wild salmon. Some of the stories were completely enraging....

Anyways, it would appear not all of your colleagues feel the same way as you do.
Have you spent any significant amount of time out of a lab and on the water where there are farm sites??
 
Interesting... Well I clearly think that salmon farms are a disaster but unlike many other people the tipping point for me came directly from the mouth of a longtime DFO employee. We had a great chat and I asked many questions in which I wanted unbiased answers. This person said they feel there isn't much they can do, but there is DEFINITELY reason to be very worried about wild salmon. Some of the stories were completely enraging....

Thats interesting because I have had the exact opposite experience. Thus is the nature of the debate.
 
Thats interesting because I have had the exact opposite experience. Thus is the nature of the debate.
Birdnest.... You are a witness to the two sides of DFO
One side measures success by the abundance of money and the other side measures success by the abundance of life.

Not hard to figure out who you talk to.
 
@GLG: Good point. In the case of my top secret DFO informant, that person cares about the health of the environment as much as anyone. They wouldn't be doing their job otherwise as I don't think pay is anything to write home about.

Anyways...... lol there's obviously two sides to the argument......... the argument that's been going on for over 20 years while the numbers of farms has increased and the number of wild fish has decreased.... weird? :(
 
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