Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
Reporting escapement or even a risk of escapement of any is mandatory within 24 hours on bc salmon farms. Has been for many years.
Study: Trophic Interactions and Consumption of Wild Fish and Plankton by Cage Reared Salmon in BC
- Thread starter Birdsnest
- Start date
Reporting escapement or even a risk of escapement of any is mandatory within 24 hours on bc salmon farms. Has been for many years.
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
You can have as many mandatory requirements as you like but if there is slack, or lack of enforcement and actual follow through on non-compliance it means squat. Like I said above, the salmon net pen feedlot industry has had a "too cozy" relationship with the fed/prov. govts. for too long.
Govt. want the fish farms to succeed even at a cost to taxpayers and the health of the environment. Govt. likes the cheaper/easier vision of farm raised fish then dealing with the more complicated and expensive process of better managing the wild salmon resource (even though farmed fish are not as sustainable to wild in the long run). Even more they like the large $ donations to their political parties and re-election campaigns they get from industry.
Unfortunately, it is not the only industry that gets preferential treatment like this (e.g. mining, oil/gas, forestry and pharmaceuticals to name a few). Concerned citizens demanding govt's and industry to be more accountable is the solution - hence most of the posts against the fish farm industry of this forum.
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You are incorrect. Reporting is not voluntary. Read the regulations:
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/SOR-2010-270.pdf
When there is evidence of an escape the licence holder must report this to DFO within 24 hours.
Speculation means squat.
Lack of transparency? Have you seen this:
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquaculture/reporting-rapports/escape-evasion-eng.html
Who would know if there is no 3rd party validation? What if they took the cops off the road - and gave you a 1-800 number to self report. Think that would be a safe, effective, responsible move by the regulators? Think people would speed and not report? It's voluntary.
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Does the industry not have to report inventories to the CRA? If a storm blows through and 50000 pieces go missing and the loss is not reported then doesn't the farm still tax against the inventory? Would it not be in the best interest of the farm to report this loss as to minimize the tax and show a profit vs loss? Back in the day we would inventory every fish through video every year (3rd party) and if any pens that had huge seal mortality through the winter where recounted in the spring. It's pretty transparent.
gunnerlove
Well-Known Member
It felt right.
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
Sorry you are wrong. I have worked directly in prov. govt. and have seen first hand the collusion between politicians, govt. execs and staff and the fish farm industry at the expense of the marine environment. I could no longer do this work as it sickened and angered me so I had to leave that job to find other work. I saw how they hid and covered up info, they made it hard for citizens to get the info they asked for, they worked in collusion with industry to circumvent the proper regulatory and inspection processes, etc. Fed/Prov. govt. is not always objective in its oversight as it should be and claims to be.
I experienced a culture and expectation on employees by management to 'not rock the boat' and make the industry look bad in a serious way. If you did, you did not fit in and needed to leave. Did they do it every time - of course not, but they did it enough to protect the industry from potentially serious harm. The continued govt. support of this highly controversial industry shows that nothing has changed.
I am sure the few industry supporters on this forum will tell me how I am full of BS, and try to poke holes in what I have said here, but I know what I saw and experienced. IMO and many others on this forum, this industry is no different from others (oil, mining, forestry, etc.) that have negative impacts on the environment and get support from govt. to hide or minimize much of their 'dirty laundry' from public view. Only continued action by concerned citizens will bring about the accountability needed to better manage fish farm to reduce their negative environment impacts
bigdogeh
Well-Known Member
Good post Whole in the Water.
Lately there's been a push by the supporters on this forum to try to put across that the fish farm industry and DFO is run with openness, honesty and transparency. and I've even seen it mentioned in another thread (well, well, well,) where a supporter (shuswap) directs people to acknowledge the fine work of DFO thanks to Kristi Miller for her work with ISA. I almost choked when I read that
(shuswap) "When people shoot a 10 minute video claiming Hard Evidence which is an abomination of science, it detracts from the good, positive work being done by many individuals who are not PR hacks. Fueling unsubstantiated conspiracies also detracts from the work being done by people like Kristi Miller."
It's almost comical that they (in this case shuswap) can try to claim this especially when you read excerpts and comments that have come out from from the cohen commission. It's interesting the one person he chose to use as an example of the fine work DFO is involved in is the one person who has been shunned and alienated at DFO for her finding ISA virus in atlantic farmed salmon samples.
and we're supposed to believe that DFO is working for the interests of all Canadians? I think most people are smarter than that and can see where his/their interests lie...
"5.
The DFO Reaction to Dr. Miller
There is no doubt that Dr. Miller’s temerity to test for ISA (or, more accurately, to find it) has not been popular at DFO and may be a career killer:
Dr. Miller and Stephen StephenQ Let me ask you more generally, as a result of 22 these findings of ISA, have you felt any pressure23 or adverse reaction from your other superiors?DR. MILLER: I'm pretty alienated in the department at25 the moment so the end result of all of this is I'm26 not included in any conversations about any of 27 this so once I reported this information on the28 24th, nobody in the department talked to me about29 disease or ISA after that.
47
See also p. 110: “nobody was speaking to me at that point”.
Dr. Miller further testified that the whole department was under restrictions from talking about ISA in email.
48
Her discussion with Dr. Stephen on November 24, 2011 was obviously not an easy one. Dr. Stephen raised concern about “repercussions of the new diseases on wild fish and their price and exchange between countries, etc.”
49
Her funding was at risk. It is submitted that the obvious difficulties that Dr. Miller has faced, including lack of cooperation from the province and from the fish farm industry in her research, will deter other DFO scientists from such lines of research. It is indicative of a culture at DFO that is adverse to research that will cause difficulties, real or potential, to the aquaculture industry."
45
See Dr. Miller’s testimony Dec. 19, 2011 at p. 108 - She was even told that under the CFIA definition she could not call what she found to be ISAv - she had to use another name.
46
Dec 19, 2011, p.98:32.
47
Dec. 15, 2011, p.108:22-29,
48
Dec. 15, 2011 p. 109:16-20.
49
Dec. 15, 2011 p. 108: 34-36.
Lately there's been a push by the supporters on this forum to try to put across that the fish farm industry and DFO is run with openness, honesty and transparency. and I've even seen it mentioned in another thread (well, well, well,) where a supporter (shuswap) directs people to acknowledge the fine work of DFO thanks to Kristi Miller for her work with ISA. I almost choked when I read that
(shuswap) "When people shoot a 10 minute video claiming Hard Evidence which is an abomination of science, it detracts from the good, positive work being done by many individuals who are not PR hacks. Fueling unsubstantiated conspiracies also detracts from the work being done by people like Kristi Miller."
It's almost comical that they (in this case shuswap) can try to claim this especially when you read excerpts and comments that have come out from from the cohen commission. It's interesting the one person he chose to use as an example of the fine work DFO is involved in is the one person who has been shunned and alienated at DFO for her finding ISA virus in atlantic farmed salmon samples.
and we're supposed to believe that DFO is working for the interests of all Canadians? I think most people are smarter than that and can see where his/their interests lie...
"5.
The DFO Reaction to Dr. Miller
There is no doubt that Dr. Miller’s temerity to test for ISA (or, more accurately, to find it) has not been popular at DFO and may be a career killer:
Dr. Miller and Stephen StephenQ Let me ask you more generally, as a result of 22 these findings of ISA, have you felt any pressure23 or adverse reaction from your other superiors?DR. MILLER: I'm pretty alienated in the department at25 the moment so the end result of all of this is I'm26 not included in any conversations about any of 27 this so once I reported this information on the28 24th, nobody in the department talked to me about29 disease or ISA after that.
47
See also p. 110: “nobody was speaking to me at that point”.
Dr. Miller further testified that the whole department was under restrictions from talking about ISA in email.
48
Her discussion with Dr. Stephen on November 24, 2011 was obviously not an easy one. Dr. Stephen raised concern about “repercussions of the new diseases on wild fish and their price and exchange between countries, etc.”
49
Her funding was at risk. It is submitted that the obvious difficulties that Dr. Miller has faced, including lack of cooperation from the province and from the fish farm industry in her research, will deter other DFO scientists from such lines of research. It is indicative of a culture at DFO that is adverse to research that will cause difficulties, real or potential, to the aquaculture industry."
45
See Dr. Miller’s testimony Dec. 19, 2011 at p. 108 - She was even told that under the CFIA definition she could not call what she found to be ISAv - she had to use another name.
46
Dec 19, 2011, p.98:32.
47
Dec. 15, 2011, p.108:22-29,
48
Dec. 15, 2011 p. 109:16-20.
49
Dec. 15, 2011 p. 108: 34-36.
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From what I understand, Miller also had to put her work on hold for a year or two, since the industry held-up her getting the markers to identify certain pathogens. Miller did her credible work IN SPITE OF being part of DFO. PBS Nanaimo is also in a conflict of interest as their aquaculture branch gets work/employment off the industry - as does the Province's fish vet...
Well didn't you admit your own biases towards the industry. Kind of goes both ways.
You just stated something that was incorrect as this information on escaped farmed salmon is public. Seems like some posters here are not very objective either.
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Whst is comical is your defence of Morton but I have to give you credit that at least you are willing to defend her latest circus here if she isn't. If you are going to quote what I said you should actually use it in your post instead of your own interpretation:
Misinformation doesn't serve any noble purpose. When people shoot a 10 minute video claiming Hard Evidence which is an abomination of science, it detracts from the good, positive work being done by many individuals who are not PR hacks. Fueling unsubstantiated conspiracies also detracts from the workbeing done by people like Kristi Miller.
As you can see I never made specific reference to ISA. However, if you want to go down that road about Dr. Miller's testimony then you are missing a lot more that she did talk about in regards to ISA/ISAV along with other scientists in Volume 2. Critics of the industry convienently do not mention all of Miller's testimony. More like critics are doing there own censoring now. It all there - go read it and give the filter a rest. Miller was an example of just one individual, but not the only one doing some really good work now. If you would divert away from Morton's blog for awhile you would see.
With the Strategic Salmon Health Initiative, Miller is involved in more than just one pathogen and research goes beyond that what you just mentioned. I do not agree with how the Privy Council treated the department and Miller back then, but that same excuse you use is hard to defend under this current mandate. Miller is not muzzled and the media can make arrangements for an interview with her and many other scientists in a much more expedited way now. Ironically, the SSHI is a collaborative effort that was remarkably started under the Harper government and is currently ongoing.
Your distrust doesn't necessarily equate to wrong doing on behalf of the industry. What is this 3rd party validation supposed to validate? It's not voluntary as the regulations say otherwise.
I agree that the job of validating would be somewhat different than other fisheries validators - but compliance - as with other fisheries/validators - would be the job.
bigdogeh
Well-Known Member
the way I and many others see it is the circus going on is the bunch of DFO clowns at the top running the show. It's not a wonder you guys constantly attack Morton as she is constantly out there trying to protect our wild salmon (your job) while all you guys are interested in is trying to deflect criticism of and prop up the filthy industry you've decided to go to bed with.
video evidence doesn't seem like misinformation to me. if it's shown that atlantic salmon are eating our wild fish, even one, that's one too many. but call it misinformation if that makes you feel better... farmed salmon aren't a natural part of the ecosystem. they're a foreign introduced (in the millions)
alien predatory species that are farmed in open pen nets directly on our wild salmon migratory routes. and they will take advantage of prey (salmon smolts, herring, etc) that gets through these open pen nets. common sense tells us this and now video evidence does as well.
How about this,
If the industry has nothing to hide why don't they set up a couple underwater camera's on a few fish farms and live stream the content on the internet and let people see for themselves what goes on? you and I know the answer to that one.
I'll go one step further. how about the misinformation spread by the fish farm industry claiming that farmed atlantic salmon are a healthy food source? maybe you should watch the video in this thread... and defend it. I'd be interested in seeing how you try to spin it as misinformation...
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/farmed-salmon-—-one-of-the-most-toxic-foods-in-the-world.64529/
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bigdogeh
Well-Known Member
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/index.php?threads/farmed-salmon-—-one-of-the-most-toxic-foods-in-the-world.64529/[/QUOTE]
maybe you could explain why if it's bad there, why it isn't bad here?
maybe you could explain why if it's bad there, why it isn't bad here?
One would think.... because it is in a completely different ocean with a ecosystem onto its own, farming practices, government rules and regulations. They farm I believe and maybe wrong but only Atlantic salmon, where as here we raise pacific coast salmon, steelhead, Atlantics, etc.
Definitely each fish farm site is different wrt exposure, migratory patterns of juvenile and adult wild salmon and species, estuarine/fjord circulation (again - why we need a robust, public environmental assessment). Just because we arbitrarily label and draw nonexistent lines to demark 1 stretch of water that we label "Pacific" verses an "Atlantic" label does not guarantee nor mitigate that the same problems that they had to deal with in the Atlantic will not happen in the Pacific. Atlantic and Pacific are just labels. As a responsible regulator - one would use the hard-learned experiences from the Atlantic to not repeat the same mistakes in the Pacific - rather than ignoring the obvious lessons. That's why Canada signed on to the Precautionary Approach as did over 170 other nations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle
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