Something Wicked This Way Comes - ON THE LINE

Harper has called everyone opposed to the pipeline development and associated tanker traffic and vastly increased risk to the coast of BC, a "radical".

For anyone who is pro NDP, or at least supports the NDP's opposition to Northern Gateway, here is a place to sign up and show how "radical" you are.

http://radicals4ourcoast.ca/

And if we who want to protect the BC coast and its vibrant economy, culture and social fabric, and incredible ocean environment are "radical", what does that make Harper?

With his demonstrated contempt for science and his gutting of environmental laws to make way for the pipeline development, at best he is just a fundamentalist conservative imprisoned in his own blind ideology. At worst, given the destruction he is prepared to risk unleashing on BC's coast and waterways, Attila the Hun or Gengis Khan come to mind!!
 
Not surprising but a good overview of Canada's energy policy over the past year and how industry has had influence:

CBC reveals the oil and gas industry was granted its request that the federal government change a series of environmental laws to advance "both economic growth and environmental performance."

Within 10 months of the request, the industry had almost everything it wanted.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/sto...tter-to-government-on-environmental-laws.html
 
$30.00 a bbl is a substantial gain so they would be willing to flatten many hurdles to get it. Never underestimate the power of money. :(

Another example of the Golden Rule in action. "Them with the gold make the rules."
 
how many rivers are protected now?Harper has an agenda and the pipeline will go ahead.It sucks but it will happen guys.
Phishbonk,

This will not go through! Have you read the submissions to the Joint Review Panel? It is all posted here:-

http://gatewaypanel.review-examen.gc.ca/clf-nsi/prtcptngprcss/prvshrngtrnscrpt-eng.html

More than 60% of all British Columbians are opposed to this project.

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/po...ns-opposed-enbridge-northern-gateway-pipeline

This will result in a change of BC government in May. There will then be a very long political battle between the Province and the Feds.
Then factor in the First Nations, especially the Land Treaty issues and the fight will go on for years.

This bitumen pipeline will never be built across BC!! The people of BC will see to that.....

http://pipeupagainstenbridge.ca/five-big-problems
 
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Yes to the tune of $80 million or so per day to gain.

I hope you are right,but whe there is money there's politics and where there,s politics there,s corruption.
 
Is that gross or net? ie. does this include both the forecasted revenue and expenses? Much of the garbage valuation work done on both sides ignores such major items in order to make a nice caption for a newspaper, facebook update, etc.
what is your source for this? I have a funny feeling I already know the answer to this but please share
Who exactly are the recipients of this $80 million per day you speak of? how is the pie cut between the feds, AB, BC, enbridge and it's foreign ownership parnters, etc.

I'm not sure if this was just an off the cuff remark to state that there are serious financial benefits or if you are serious. As someone who has spent a career doing financial analysis I can let you know that anyone competent looking at the financials of this proposed pipeline sees it as a complete and utter HORRIBLE financial deal for BC in it's proposed form.

finally, what was the valuation method used for determining the $ value of a clean river?

Yes to the tune of $80 million or so per day to gain.
 
Just saw article from a facebook link - http://www.vancouverobserver.com/po...-enbridges-bogus-economics-joint-review-panel



Some of the most damning evidence of the Enbridge Northern Gateway Joint Review Panel (JRP) hearings this morning was presented by a former BC Hydro CEO and deputy minister of energy for both Manitoba and Ontario.

“It is my contention that Enbridge has submitted marketing propaganda masquerading as economic analysis because of the one-sided, self-serving private benefit picture the proponent has presented. Therefore the public benefit test is not being met and therefore the project is not in the public interest,” Marc Eliesen, a career executive in the Canadian energy and utility sector, told the panel.

Along with the presidency of BC Hydro, Eliesen sat on the board of Suncor Energy and was former CEO of Manitoba Energy Authority and Ontario Hydro. In total, he has worked for seven governments and nine ministers of the crown.

His assessment of the Enbridge plan was blunt, noting that "bogus economics with misinformation" was being used by the proponent, by the oil industry and by governments of Canada and Alberta to justify the Northern Gateway pipeline project.

He said in the case of the Enbridge Northern Gateway pipeline, the proponent submitted a 30-year scenario, which assumed one constant fixed exchange rate for over 30 years.

"I have sat as director on a number of company boards, including Suncor Energy, and I can easily state that if management had forwarded only one scenario for any project, without sensitivity analysis, they would be quickly dismissed."

Eliesen said his analysis is based on his energy background and having read and analyzed the Enbridge application to the National Energy Board, including the economic benefits case. He emphasized that he has followed the information request process and reviewed responses from Enbridge, and reviewed the statements and cross-examination on economic matters discussed at the JRP hearing in Edmonton. In his view, it’s clear due diligence on the Northern Gateway project has not taken place.

“The case that has been presented to this panel is not professional, it is not reliable and it is not believable,” Eliesen said.

“The lack of professionalism reflected in the due diligence business case exposes this project as unsupportable on the basis of economic and business criteria.”

“It’s not easy being green ... but it's the right way to go.”

David Benton, a former economist in Alberta and currently working as a project manager in the Hartley Bay area, told the panel that First Nations' culture is "inextricably linked to the territories they've known for centuries."

“If this project were to proceed [...] it will be genocide for that (Hartley Bay) community," he said.

Environmental consultant Ann Pacey also raised serious environmental concerns about the pipeline project while Surrey resident Neville Gosling was one of many speakers who reminded the panel about the oil spill on the Kalamazoo River and the inadequate response from Enbridge.

“It is not surprising that British Columbians do not trust Enbridge or pipelines,” Gosling said. “I do not believe we should allow (oil) tankers the size of Empire State Building and foreign owned by BC waters.”

Pia Massie of Vancouver brought her son to the hearings to reinforce the responsibility of each generation to protect the water, air and land of British Columbia.

“Thirteen years ago my son was born in New York City. Then 9/11 happened,” Massie told the panel.

“I wanted my child to grow up in the most beautiful place I had ever known on earth. The Enbridge pipeline is a project so toxic that it has brought global shame to Canada.”

The JRP hearings continue all this week in Vancouver at the Sheraton Wall Centre. It will resume the final week of January in Vancouver before moving to Kelowna January 28.
 
Actually Tincan the oilsand producers are getting as much as $40. less per bbl due to pipeline resrictions. The figure I am stating is also if the Oilsands reach 2millionbbl per day production. But it is easy to see how this amount of moolah makes the Government and producers willing to do many things for this kind of money.

Is that gross or net? ie. does this include both the forecasted revenue and expenses? Much of the garbage valuation work done on both sides ignores such major items in order to make a nice caption for a newspaper, facebook update, etc.
what is your source for this? I have a funny feeling I already know the answer to this but please share
Who exactly are the recipients of this $80 million per day you speak of? how is the pie cut between the feds, AB, BC, enbridge and it's foreign ownership parnters, etc.

I'm not sure if this was just an off the cuff remark to state that there are serious financial benefits or if you are serious. As someone who has spent a career doing financial analysis I can let you know that anyone competent looking at the financials of this proposed pipeline sees it as a complete and utter HORRIBLE financial deal for BC in it's proposed form.

finally, what was the valuation method used for determining the $ value of a clean river?
 
Trust me, I am quite aware of the fact that there are some parties involved in this proposed pipeline who are set to make money and I do realize the Fed's know that if they want to sell the tarsands oil they are best to do it asap (for their short term purporses). The Chinese and others in the intl market are willing to pay more per barrel which is precisely why there is an attempt to force this pipeline down the throats of Canadians. The reality is that people in the know on both sides know that there are a very few who stand to gain from the Enbridge Northern Gateway pipeline. The one who are pro pipeline are the ones who stand to gain. The one who are most anti pipeline are the one who know the economics and realize it makes no sense for BC at all and very little sense for Canada as a whole. The majority in the middle don't understand the intricacies of this project and their opinions are largely shaped by what they see and read in short tv spots and ads, many of which tell them the pipeline is "more than a pipeline, it's a path to our future" or some garbage similar to that.

Anyone with financial acumen and enough interest in reading through the proposal made by Enbridge can see that this is a bunk deal for Canadians (long term) and BC (short and long term).

Actually Tincan the oilsand producers are getting as much as $40. less per bbl due to pipeline resrictions. The figure I am stating is also if the Oilsands reach 2millionbbl per day production. But it is easy to see how this amount of moolah makes the Government and producers willing to do many things for this kind of money.
 
The economic arguments are all moot. Any financial benefit could be wiped out by one serious bitumen tanker grounding and oil discharge.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/me...s+rewards+Northern+Gateway/7690478/story.html

But that is really not the point. There are some things we do not do for moral or ethical reasons, especially if someone or a group suffers major consequences. Selling hard drugs is just one example. There are many others.

The natural, cultural, ecological and heritage values of the BC Coast are incalculable. (Again ignoring the significant real economic values for the moment.)
Putting that pipeline in would be like selling the very soul of BC. Just like the story in the Faustian parable, it is a pact with "the devil". We are tempted, seduced and sold by the lure of great riches, but the time will come when we and our descendents have to pay. Big time!

The conservatives government cares for none of this and they would sell their own grandmothers, if they thought it would bring "economic benefit".
 
So true but so far those against have kicked the big guys hard enough in the shins that they are sitting up and paying attention.

The economic arguments are all moot. Any financial benefit could be wiped out by one serious bitumen tanker grounding and oil discharge.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/me...s+rewards+Northern+Gateway/7690478/story.html

But that is really not the point. There are some things we do not do for moral or ethical reasons, especially if someone or a group suffers major consequences. Selling hard drugs is just one example. There are many others.

The natural, cultural, ecological and heritage values of the BC Coast are incalculable. (Again ignoring the significant real economic values for the moment.)
Putting that pipeline in would be like selling the very soul of BC. Just like the story in the Faustian parable, it is a pact with "the devil". We are tempted, seduced and sold by the lure of great riches, but the time will come when we and our descendents have to pay. Big time!

The conservatives government cares for none of this and they would sell their own grandmothers, if they thought it would bring "economic benefit".
 
Norway, a great example of how to retain resource (oil & gas) wealth within it's borders for future generations... pretty much the exact opposite of what the Cons have been pushing for in Canada for decades.

CALGARY - A new report has some advice for Canada when it comes to managing its oil wealth — be more like Norway.

The study from the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives released Thursday calls for a more hands-on approach both provincially and federally toward developing the resource, divvying up its riches and reducing its environmental impacts.

"Right from the beginning in Norway, there was a consensus that the government had to be in the driver's seat, both as an owner and as a regulator and it had to be involved in all aspects of the industry," Bruce Campbell, executive director of the group and the report's author, said in an interview.

In Canada, it's been much the opposite, with foreign and domestic private interests more or less in control since the start.

Read full article below:

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/01/16/oil-industry-canada-norway_n_2491761.html?utm_hp_ref=canada
 
Agreed there Gunsmith, what I also find troubling is how much condensate the tarsands need now and into the future.
Makes you wonder why they don't just upgrade it onsite and ship it east.
 
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