MadJigga
Well-Known Member
Where would i get clarification of this information?Unless the vessel is under about 24 feet then the pleasure craft will do.
Where would i get clarification of this information?Unless the vessel is under about 24 feet then the pleasure craft will do.
Try this link, MJ:Where would i get clarification of this information?
Where would i get clarification of this information?
Thanks. What’s the definition of sheltered wAters?What I said is true just with parameters, my apologies. I carry a copy of this on my boat because I suspect that it is very likely this if I was to get checked the person checking would not know this either for it is very deep in the regulations and very few people know about this portion of the reg. I dont necessarily support is for commercial operating.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp14070-3582.htm
see Table 4-1
View attachment 50799
Sheltered waters has nothing to do with being on our coast line in the ocean... and operating in "Near Coastal Class 2 Waters"
What you posted there has nothing to do with fishing our salt water coast line. If you carry that on your boat and try to tell DFO, TC, WorkSafeBC etc anything like that you will be given the information I have given above in my posts...
I’m going to. I’ll be transiting my construction crew from Sidney to small gulf islands. In my 20’ boat. The client will be paying for the service. I think it’s pretty cut and dryJust get an SVOP.
But despite totally hijacking the thread if you go down this list to BC you can see where the salt chuck is included .
https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2007-31/page-3.html#docCont
As soon as you are categorized as "Near Coastal Class 2" (which you will be if you are working from (earning a living) your boat, chartering passengers on our BC coastline) then you need all the stuff I mentioned above. Doesn't matter if you are under 24'... You can see that clearly on the TC websites.
Now if you go back to this page:
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp14070-3582.htm
You will see in the chart that when you are operating a charter vessel carrying "passengers" (paying customers) you need the SVOP and the SDV-BS (Old MED3 course)
It's in the TC act, regulations, definitions etc..I just can't see where it lists anything about paying customers. It only states "passengers". I am curious where the distinction between paying customers and passengers is listed?
It's in the TC act, regulations, definitions etc..
I've taken all the courses and we went over it lots during the course. If you are a commercial vessel (earning a living from your vessel-you are the master) there is a very clear distinction between "guests" and "passengers" and the TC laws/regs that go with them.
Also doesn't matter if an employee, crew member other than the master is piloting the vessel, if it's a working vessel then it's a "commercial vessel" and is governed under those laws by TC and WorkSafeBC. Doesn't matter if a "passenger" literally "paid" a fee or not, if the vessel is running as a commercial vessel then they are "passengers" not "guests".
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/debs-small-vessels-faq-general-502.htm
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/marinesafety/tp-tp14070-3578.htm
Than
Ok thanks I got this from that which is clear.
"How do I determine if I'm carrying passengers or guests?
The basic consideration when deciding which category a vessel should fit is whether the person(s) carried on board are passengers or not.
The situation is clearer where the vessel owner also operates it and there is no form of charter party in existence. In this situation, you have to examine the relationship between the owner and the people on board. If any of them are paying money for their carriage on the vessel, then they will be deemed to be passengers and the vessel will come within Transport Canada’s regime. If the owner is receiving any form of remuneration for the use of the vessel, even if not directly from the persons carried, then they will be passengers. If the persons are guests, there is no form of remuneration and the vessel is being used exclusively for pleasure they will not be passengers and the vessel will be under pleasure craft regime. This would include the situation where an owner invites some friends for a trip on his pleasure craft. If the sole purpose of the trip is pleasure and there is no commercial element or intent then they will not be passengers."
So where does it clearly state that if you are commercialy operating with passenger you are automatically under the prevision of "near coastal class 2"?
I agree with you. Much better to have your I's dotted and T's crossed. And yes insurance comes into play big time. Make sure it's written into your policy.In my case, I’ll be charging my customer a fee for the boat and per passenger. Say $300 a day. I know guys that do this without a SVOP. I’d prefer to have my bases covered as I plan on doing this a lot. If I’m boarded and checked or if something were to go wrong and Worksafe or my liability insurance was involved I want to have dotted my I’s and crossed my T’s. Better safe than sorry kinda thing. It’s been my experience that when I push my luck it pushes back.
The OP originally started this thread asking about the courses because he was thinking about either guiding from his boat or someone else's. Chartering around our coast is in the category "Near Coastal Class 2" It's a geographical definition which then dictates the regulations you fall under.
If you have a very specific small geological location that falls into "sheltered waters" category and your not gonna be more than one NM from any shore that you want to charter in then giver a go at telling TC/WSBC/CCG that and see what they say about your requirements...
Yes exactly. The courses give a lot of excellent info. And yes the safety briefing is written in the law as well. And like you say if something goes wrong they will investigate and question all of the passengers. You should have a check list to go through every time you go out. I mentioned it in another thread not long ago about how most of my passengers have had no idea how to use a VHF, call signs etc and also most have no clue about cold water exposure/survival etc. Going through these things fresh before a trip can really help them with knowledge and also make them feel like you care about their safety.I would just say this...why wouldn't you want an SVOP training and certification even if you aren't operating outside the 1 NM from sheltered waters? This should be more about doing the right thing to prepare yourself for trouble. Taking the easy route out sometimes leaves you and your passengers unprepared for trouble...who needs that.
Another bit of advice...every commercial operator must be providing proper safety briefings demonstrating all the safety equipment, lifejackets etc before heading out....failure to do so will result in a Charge laid against you - especially in situations where there has been an incident. Gloves come off. Just ask the guy who was captain on the boat that sank off Tofino while on a halibut charter...he was convicted of several charges.
Yup. I’ll be spending a bit of time making sure any and all concerns are addressed and covered before I move forward. Currently I’m using a water taxi service but would prefer more control over departure times etc. And would like to duck out early some days and fish!!I agree with you. Much better to have your I's dotted and T's crossed. And yes insurance comes into play big time. Make sure it's written into your policy.