GLG
Well-Known Member
Your sources are suspect because the come from a right wing rags (except guardian) that are famous for it's climate change reporting and climate change denial. You want facts.... there are other sources that have more responsible reporting on those facts. Here is one that comes from the Industry and German government. It tells a different picture then that media.Here's some info from 2 countries that are years ahead of us. Why go down this same path? The last 2 links are the dirty little secret I was referring to, if it looks like this now imagine when there's enough neodymium produced to have a meaningful impact. And rest assured NIMBYISM (not meant to be derogatory just the easiest way to convey the idea) will ensure it's produced in some third world backwater not domestically.
http://theenergycollective.com/robe...ck-germany-does-not-get-half-its-energy-solar
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...ower-chaos-should-be-a-warning-to-the-UK.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ear...elied-upon-to-deliver-UK-energy-security.html
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/clean-energys-dirty-little-secret/307377/
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/aug/07/china-rare-earth-village-pollution
http://www.unendlich-viel-energie.de/media/file/400.AEE_Talking_Cards_2015_engl_final.pdf
or here
http://energytransition.de/
You're correct the planet doesn't need more fossil fuels it needs better fossil fuels. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out that on a cold dark Canadian winter day when demand is at it's highest solar output will be at it's lowest and we simply don't have sufficient storage capacity to get us by. Same for wind are you ready to wager your home heating in January or fridge and freezer contents on it when the sun doesn't shine for weeks? Even if we built enough renewable that actually had sufficient output, not capacity we still need backup for the significant off time. Starting that kind of power generation up everyday isn't like flicking a light switch so these backup plants chug along inefficiently and expensively 24/7. Pick your poison for that source, kinda makes a good case for NG doesn't it? Please read those links they're full of facts and actual numbers.
Ah yes the solution to our fossil fuel problem is more fossil fuels. Who would have thought, face plant. There are solution if we have the courage to find them. Can we do everything tomorrow, no we need a plan for a transition. Ever here of net zero housing? Would it surprise you to know that the leaders in this field are in Alberta? Do they know something that we don't.
http://www.greenenergyfutures.ca/episodes?topics=net-zero
Yes we need backup but would it surprise you to know that if we had an electric fleet it could offer backup as well as storage for renewable energy. Here is an example of one of many such solutions and as all things in technology the price comes down with time and the products get better. Think computers and cellphones.
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1076589_nissan-launches-leaf-to-home-electric-car-power-system
Because society demands the energy and products they deliver. Do you think the big corps produce these things you rally against for fun? Wanna stop production, then stop consumption. 60% of emissions from a barrel of oil come from consumption not production. The earths population grows by 170 people every minute and they all want the same things you take for granted. Shouldn't they be able to take their friends up to Browns Bay for a day of sockeye fishing?
Yes the Koch Brothers fund all that climate change denial for fun or maybe they are more interested in their wealth and protecting it. You always come back to that argument that the only way to slow down consumption is never to slow down production. We can do both. You slow down consumption by using Cap and Trade or Fee and Dividend. You can slow down production by regulation.
Yes we have suppliers in Canada, they are in Ontario and are being attacked on all fronts.Interesting, I hadn't heard about this it almost sounds like a protectionist policy, where's the domestic suppliers that should be stepping up? Surely they can compete with a 300% tariff added can't they? Or can they? Perhaps there's a reason Canada focuses on what it can compete at which is resource extraction.
Very much like if we were to eliminate all big industry from Canada, it won't help as much as people think. It would actually put the planet back a step because (as I've said 100 times but you seem unwilling to accept or don't actually care) someone else will pick up the slack and it won't be done better than here. Like you've said before "who cares let them clean up their own mess, we've got commitments." That really doesn't sound like something someone who cares about the planet would say. it sounds like someone with a different agenda. Where do you want the petroleum base products for the plastics you use everyday to come from? How about the met coal, the natural gas (not just for fuel you use something made from it EVERYDAY), the copper etc? Ready to go without?
Yes I have an agenda... it's for future generations. My family goes way back in Canada, 200 years before confederation and I have a stubborn streak I got from them that I'm sure you have noticed. I'm not apposed to resource industry in Canada. I'm apposed to resource industry capture in government. We need to look at everything that has a heavy footprint on the environment CO2 and otherwise. Yes we need plastic, but is that not a better use of our fossil fuels then burning it? Yes we need fertilizers and is that not a better use of fossil fuels then burning them. Yes we need NG here in Canada and the US to transition from coal power plants. I'm not against met coal as that is not the same as thermal coal and is needed to help with this transition. Same with copper as long as it's done right and not like the mess we had here in the Comox Valley that we are still fixing with tax payer money.
"Ready to go without" Their you go again with the false choice argument. Why can't we do both? Protect the environment and the economy. Why do we have to chose one or the other?
Back to agenda.... I have no money invested in renewables, my money is invested in bonds and is a balance of Canadian an BC municipal bonds. So I'm invested in the community and pays a steady 5%. I'm also transitioning to renewables but can only do it so fast. Last year I bought a hybrid car for the wife she went from 14L/100 Km to 4L/100 Km. Here is what I'm looking at now.
http://shoreenergy.ca/productsservices/the-sun-pump/
To stimulate investment as there's competition in this space. I think we should give the solar industry a break from carbon tax too, surely with that and a 300% tariff they could compete. If these renewable technologies were actually viable I'd be all over giving them the same breaks as the energy sector gets but since they aren't it would be a waste of time and money and once you factored in unreliable output and backup needs we'd go backwards pretty fast. When you consider the last sentence don't just think operationally, think of how much material goes into the infrastructure for such minimal returns.
Most countries around the world seem to think that it is worth the effort to go to renewable energy. Why is it that Canada is betting against it? Could be that the line between the fossil fuel industry and government is so blurred that you can't tell where one stops and the other begins. We will have to agree to disagree on the value of renewables.
Do some research on countries that are ahead of us if you don't like my sources above. Don't get tricked by the words capacity and output as you dig into it.
I didn't say anything about solar, I said raws for rare earth magnets. There could potentially be tons of jobs in solar when you figure out how many it's gonna take to power the world and the fact they don't last but 25 years, so there's always that upside.
Yes I'm full aware of the difference between name plate and output and have been for a long time. Are you aware that not all wind turbines use rare earth magnets? Yes the potential for jobs in Canada is huge for both solar, wind and home efficiency because you can't outsource the installation of that. Pity we didn't grab wind power when Alberta was set to be a world leader oh so many years ago.
OK so we agree we're not there yet, what do you suggest we do in the meantime?
Ugh, we're doing it again Gilbert!
"A good hockey player plays where the puck is. A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be."
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/w/waynegretz131510.html#liVwMCjo3sjkWtqZ.99."
I'll leave you with one idea for BC renewable. If we capitalize on our renewable energy we could store that extra power behind dams for later use when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shinning. I think the salmon would like that idea when in summer we have to balance water for salmon and water for electric generation. Seems like a win win in our books.
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