Poll - Sport Fishing and Salmon Stocks

Well ill bite ill admit coho were very bad for sooke but sockeye for the first 3 weeks in aug was very good just had to find them got some alomost every time i went out, as for springs they were good you again had to find them and from Aug 3 to sept 10 it was great the boat personally got some over the 30 lb mark more than a few times but i also hunted them down and had to move to find them and the size was down.

Now for the east. malcom,blackfish sound,johnston strait and knight inlet great fishing in may and june and the beginng of july but aug was very scratchy this fishing as we know is getting more and more of a knowledge game as the fish are fewer and more picky gone are the days of basically thowing gear at them you really have to know what there habits are getting and look at whats going on around you.


Good luck Wolf
 
spoke to my uncle today that that has a hatchery on his farm(shannon farms up in port alberni) I did not ask him what his return was last year but they had one coho show up at the hatchery as of today .he said that there was a number jacks that did show up late and that was a sign of a good return for next year .so keep your fingers crossed .
 
fishin magician,
I agree with some of your points, but I think you need to take a breath. If you think the west coast had a tough year, you obviously were not out there!!! Hakai pass had a normal year. Rivers Inslet had a normal year. I know this because I was there. You are right about the coho in Georgia strait. I will give you that. You forgot Gold River, it had a normal year. I dont remember hearing any complaints from sooke except the fish were a little late, which was the case in every place. Bamfield, Ucluelet, Tofino all had a great season. Ya coho fishing was bad inshore. But they were not to bad offshore. You watch, next year will be a different story. Port Renfrew, another good year. Port Mcneil started out great, ended not to bad either. Same goes for Port Hardy. I hope you dont get all your information from joe blow down at the dock or some government report. Just because some places on the coast had below average returns doesnt meen the whole coast is in jeoperdy. Fishing must not be very much fun for you when you take such a negative approach to it.
 
It seems like there is a lot of anecdotal information we can all report here.... I have only been fishing a very small portion of the coast, so I cannot comment on the state of the fishery as a whole. I just know that the Sunshine Coast is not what it was when I was a kid. I remember regularly counting over 100 boats mooching with live herring between Gower Pt. and Camp Byng. I wonder if this has something to do with the current state of affairs?

What are the best sources for determining the health of a specific fishery or area?

Does it seem odd that the offshore areas had an okay year for Coho versus the inshore areas? Were the offshore Coho this year exclusively headed to WVI streams and rivers?
 
quote:Originally posted by nine eyes deep

fishin magician,
I agree with some of your points, but I think you need to take a breath. If you think the west coast had a tough year, you obviously were not out there!!! Hakai pass had a normal year. Rivers Inslet had a normal year. I know this because I was there. You are right about the coho in Georgia strait. I will give you that. You forgot Gold River, it had a normal year. I dont remember hearing any complaints from sooke except the fish were a little late, which was the case in every place. Bamfield, Ucluelet, Tofino all had a great season. Ya coho fishing was bad inshore. But they were not to bad offshore. You watch, next year will be a different story. Port Renfrew, another good year. Port Mcneil started out great, ended not to bad either. Same goes for Port Hardy. I hope you dont get all your information from joe blow down at the dock or some government report. Just because some places on the coast had below average returns doesnt meen the whole coast is in jeoperdy. Fishing must not be very much fun for you when you take such a negative approach to it.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on some points you make but talking to some of the guys i know that charter out of bamfield the chinook fishing was a lot slower this year than the last couple of years.There were a few days they said were good but overall a slower year.I only fished barkley last year the second week of june and the chinook fishing was pretty good then.I did fish renfrew all summer and it was definatly a slower year there than the last couple.I think most people would agree on that one.But I have seen years in the past where you get a slower season and then the next year it bounces back.I hope that is the case.
 
...and has anyone noticed the latest on native settlements? [B)]
 
Fishin Magician Quoted: "Where did you get that data on Chinook? That wasn't the experience of most guides on the coast. Fraser River test fisheries suggested returns were lower.

Sockeye fishing was NOT a record year, everything was so late it was ridiculous, and the mortality was massive. The numbers were downgraded a few times.

There's more than a few saltwater guys on there that would be to differ, and there are some commercial troller salts on here that say "fishing sucked this year". They had to CANCEL the herring fishery for the CKNW herring sale...they couldn't catch any!

That says we're in trouble.

Barking up the wrong tree eh? Hmm..that would explain why the Georgia Strait is a dead zone for Coho for the last 13 years and resident Chinook are down, the average size is down, and the west coast had a tough year of it?

Can you post links to your data? "

Gooey Bob replies...

Unfortunately most of my information comes from either the preliminary 2007 Salmon Stock Outlook, or from attending SFAB meetings and listening to what the strock assessment biologists have to say. I tried to look up the Outlook document on the DFO website but couldn't find it. It will be publicly released in January so stay tuned...

I agree wholeheartedly that Coho on the South and Central Coasts are in deep trouble. If you read my post on the saltwater forum responding to the "Today's TC" thread, you'll see that I (and the DFO stock assesment biologists) also firmly beleive that is all about ocean survival - NOT overfishing.

Chinook are definitely not the case IMHO. As others have noted, summer fishing in JDF was average or above average this year (how much of Junes poor success had to do with the relentless westerlies?)I have some familiarity with Langara and the West Coast Charlottes as well as the Central coast through work, and can say with confidence that while Langara was down a bitr in catch, the West Coast had an awesome season (as usual!. Rivers Inlet was almost totally devoid of Coho, but the Chinook catch (if you can beleive the lodge and charter log books) was about the same as 2005, and much better than 2004 or 2003.

Georgia Strait has been in trouble since the mid 90's. Lower Georgia Strait chinook have serious protection measures in place right now (check out the regs) and I fail to see how any kind of bag limit restrictions or anything you offer as a solution can protect them more.

Sockeye returns to the fraser were indeed at or near records for the dominant stocks last year. If they died or wer caught in the river, how does stopping fishing help to cool down the Fraser?

Fishin' magician, what I'd encourage you to do is to call your local DFO office or hit their website and see if you can get your hands on the pdf files or power point slides that are used at SFAB presentations. There is some science there - although I'd be the first to admit that the "science" surrounding salmon run prediction has been less than perfect lately.

Doom & Gloom disguised as conservation doesn't help anyone, and may just help scare away potential customers for guys like wolf and the other guides who contribute to this site.

All I'm saying is, try to get your facts right rather than listen to anecdotal information only, before asking recreational anglers to choose how they'd like to cut back their fishery.

If I can find links, I'll post them. Otherwise, I guess you can call me a BS'er if you like!

Gooey.
 
quote:Originally posted by nine eyes deep

fishin magician,
I agree with some of your points, but I think you need to take a breath. If you think the west coast had a tough year, you obviously were not out there!!! Hakai pass had a normal year. Rivers Inslet had a normal year. I know this because I was there. You are right about the coho in Georgia strait. I will give you that. You forgot Gold River, it had a normal year. I dont remember hearing any complaints from sooke except the fish were a little late, which was the case in every place. Bamfield, Ucluelet, Tofino all had a great season. Ya coho fishing was bad inshore. But they were not to bad offshore. You watch, next year will be a different story. Port Renfrew, another good year. Port Mcneil started out great, ended not to bad either. Same goes for Port Hardy. I hope you dont get all your information from joe blow down at the dock or some government report. Just because some places on the coast had below average returns doesnt meen the whole coast is in jeoperdy. Fishing must not be very much fun for you when you take such a negative approach to it.
Click to expand...

I was out there as a matter of fact. Quite a bit over the coast. I know more than a few guides on the coast too...from Victoria..to Sooke..to Bamfield...to Nootka...to Winter Harbour...to Langara Island..to Knight and Rivers Inlet...to Campbell River...to right here in Vancouver..and the general information and consensus seems to be what most people are posting on this board.

I get my information from colleagues who guide, fellow fishers, observations from myself out there fishing personally and guiding, commercial fishers of all types..., etc..

If you want to say that cuz "certain areas" did ok, that they shouldn't be affected or we shouldn't be painted with any paint from a same brush..you're sadly mistaken, the trend from year to year is stock decline as a whole.

At last I checked, fish have fins and they swim, and they swim free...free to go whereever they want---and ultimately...there weren't as many fish going up the rivers.

Well..if you had yourself what you consider a good year....that's good...you probably managed to make some $$$, put that in the bank, buy food for the winter, service the boat and live to guide another season---however it doesn't mean that DFO should come up with some kinda of piecemeal solutions which don't do FIDDLESTICKS.

That's EXACTLY what DFO has been doing, and we now have Georgia Strait DEVOID of Coho, and spring fishing sucks in all but the peak times. Ever driven the Old Island Highway 30 years ago, 25 years ago? 10 years ago? Now go and drive it and see the difference?

According to 2 lodge owners this year was a DEADZONE in Rivers Inlet, and people fishing up there for 20 years said this was the worst year they'd ever seen.

The west coast did have a tough year, and I'd have to disagree with you.


When DFO gets rid of that stupid 45 cm size limit on Chinooks and makes it hatchery Coho only, and bring back slots....now let's see what kind of year you're going to have??? All the "negative press" is sure to affect the fishing industry..but hey...us sporties NEVER have "bad years", especially those making a living off the resource right?

Part of the problem is that we're fishing runs of fish earlier and more effectively, more efficiently than we ever were before.. with our larger boats, downriggers, better fishfinders, going further distances, etc..THIS is contributing to stock decline---we're effectively "changing" and impacting the "balance" of nature so to speak---because we are part of the food chain.

Just 'cuz next year may be different story doesn't mean that we shouldn't be making sustainable changes to our form of recreation NOW. Oh..one year was crummy..so that's no big deal? We went with the "next year" mentality as a matter of fact. Do you remember 1996? Chinook fishing was closed? Do you remember thousands of Coho slashing through herring and needlefish schools in Georgia Strait? You don't see too much herring anymore....cuz we're now fishing the LAST major spawning area into oblivion...DFO doesn't even know what is sustainable..but the spawn has been getting smaller.

Anyways..that's just my opinion and I'm personally tired of watching a resource be raped (by some user groups) and pillaged by all user groups, and the DFO who has a dual role of 1) promoting the sport and resource and 2)conserving the resource and does an equally bad job of both 1 and 2!!!!!

Anyways..enough ranting on my part..but honestly, I just one of hundreds of thousands of people whose enjoyment of the resource is going downhill because of the SAME static rationale of the DFO years over.
 
quote:Originally posted by Gooey Bob

Fishin Magician Quoted: "Where did you get that data on Chinook? That wasn't the experience of most guides on the coast. Fraser River test fisheries suggested returns were lower.

Sockeye fishing was NOT a record year, everything was so late it was ridiculous, and the mortality was massive. The numbers were downgraded a few times.

There's more than a few saltwater guys on there that would be to differ, and there are some commercial troller salts on here that say "fishing sucked this year". They had to CANCEL the herring fishery for the CKNW herring sale...they couldn't catch any!

That says we're in trouble.

Barking up the wrong tree eh? Hmm..that would explain why the Georgia Strait is a dead zone for Coho for the last 13 years and resident Chinook are down, the average size is down, and the west coast had a tough year of it?

Can you post links to your data? "

Gooey Bob replies...

Unfortunately most of my information comes from either the preliminary 2007 Salmon Stock Outlook, or from attending SFAB meetings and listening to what the strock assessment biologists have to say. I tried to look up the Outlook document on the DFO website but couldn't find it. It will be publicly released in January so stay tuned...

I agree wholeheartedly that Coho on the South and Central Coasts are in deep trouble. If you read my post on the saltwater forum responding to the "Today's TC" thread, you'll see that I (and the DFO stock assesment biologists) also firmly beleive that is all about ocean survival - NOT overfishing.

Chinook are definitely not the case IMHO. As others have noted, summer fishing in JDF was average or above average this year (how much of Junes poor success had to do with the relentless westerlies?)I have some familiarity with Langara and the West Coast Charlottes as well as the Central coast through work, and can say with confidence that while Langara was down a bitr in catch, the West Coast had an awesome season (as usual!. Rivers Inlet was almost totally devoid of Coho, but the Chinook catch (if you can beleive the lodge and charter log books) was about the same as 2005, and much better than 2004 or 2003.

Georgia Strait has been in trouble since the mid 90's. Lower Georgia Strait chinook have serious protection measures in place right now (check out the regs) and I fail to see how any kind of bag limit restrictions or anything you offer as a solution can protect them more.

Sockeye returns to the fraser were indeed at or near records for the dominant stocks last year. If they died or wer caught in the river, how does stopping fishing help to cool down the Fraser?

Fishin' magician, what I'd encourage you to do is to call your local DFO office or hit their website and see if you can get your hands on the pdf files or power point slides that are used at SFAB presentations. There is some science there - although I'd be the first to admit that the "science" surrounding salmon run prediction has been less than perfect lately.

Doom & Gloom disguised as conservation doesn't help anyone, and may just help scare away potential customers for guys like wolf and the other guides who contribute to this site.

All I'm saying is, try to get your facts right rather than listen to anecdotal information only, before asking recreational anglers to choose how they'd like to cut back their fishery.

If I can find links, I'll post them. Otherwise, I guess you can call me a BS'er if you like!

Gooey.
Click to expand...

SPORT FISHING ADVISORY BOARD..now there's an UNBIASED body..NOT NOT NOT!

Never seen the SFAB stand up and recommend conservation measures that have come into effect??. Scaring away potential customers??? Definitely NOT. That's EXACTLY what industry professionals love to argue..YOU"RE TAKING MONEY out of MY POCKETS!!!!

SFAB? NOW it's about MONEY and "if you come up with that regulation change it's going to cost me MONEY".

Doom and Gloom disguised as conservation? Ok...doom and gloom is not a good thing for the industry... the FAILURE to address the issues of doom and gloom have cost the fishery and tourism dearly. Instead of stocks GROWING they have been declining! Half the coast devoid of wild Coho, and even hatchery Cohoes are having a tough time of it..

Salmon fishing on ECVI, Campbell River, the Sunshine Coast and Howe Sound Vancouver, Nanaimo to Victoria? But a whisper of what it was.

Anyways..we're getting into it pretty good here.

Gooey..what conservation measures do you recommend come into effect right now or in the next two years as a matter of necessity?
 
Fishin' Magician:

When was the last time you attended an SFAB meeting? To insist the process is dominated by money, merely underlines your lack of familiarity with it.

I have no intention of getting into a heated debate on the subject with you - we each have our "sources" and if we disagree, its OK with me.

The challenge I have with your poll was merely that it was focused on Chinook, not Coho and its Coho that need help right now, not Chinook. Hence the "barking up the wrong tree" idea.

Lumping all species and even all stocks of one species in to one big huge "issue" is oversimplification to point of being ridiculous.

1996 is a great example. WCVI Chinook took a sh*&tkicking as a result of mackeral predation on juveniles in the first great El Nino event of the 90's. DFO predicted the problem, shut everyone down and we all suffered as a result. I was working in the Charlottes full time then, I remember it well. Folks like you were crying the sky was falling then, too.

Well, here we are only 10 years later in the era of "declining stocks", as you describe them and WCVI Chinook are returning at healthy and stable numbers in all of the larger systems, and at numbers as good as or greater than 1996 in many of the smaller wild systems too. What happened? The sky didn't fall, after all. What a shock!!If you want to dispute the escapement information - do your own homework and check out the stream catalogues for WCVI - they're available at your local DFO office. While your at it, take a look at eascapement information for the Fraser, Nass, Skeena and Central Coasts as well - you may be pleasantly surprised. Most systems at or above the 10 year average - including lower Fraser Chinook.

Messing with minumum size limits may be a good excercise to make you feel better but it illustrates you don't understand how natural mortality works on Chinook populations. Think of it this way - is it better to kill a 2 year old facing one more year of predation, disease etc or is it better to kill a 3 year old fish that is more likely to survive to spawn? Wanna do Chinook a favor? Fill yout tag with 45 cm Chinook and stop fishing. Increasing the minimum size limit will only make anglers release more trying to get bigger ones. By the way, no one is stopping you from establishing your own personal size limit if the current one offends you in some way. Fish to your own moral standard if you like, but don't get it confused with conservation and whats best for the fish.

As I already indicated, I agree tha Strait of Georgia Coho and some Chinook stocks face serious problems but I don't agree that further cutbacks to the rec fishery is the solution. I already outlined what I believe the problem is with GS Coho in another post. Would you like me to cut & paste it here to save you the time?

So, as a conservation measure for next year what would I do? The information is not yet complete, but it appears that non-retention of Coho on the South Coast may be a good idea.

Chinook don't need it, so why mess with 'em?

Gooey.
 
quote:Originally posted by Gooey Bob

Fishin' Magician:

When was the last time you attended an SFAB meeting? To insist the process is dominated by money, merely underlines your lack of familiarity with it.

I have no intention of getting into a heated debate on the subject with you - we each have our "sources" and if we disagree, its OK with me.

The challenge I have with your poll was merely that it was focused on Chinook, not Coho and its Coho that need help right now, not Chinook. Hence the "barking up the wrong tree" idea.

Lumping all species and even all stocks of one species in to one big huge "issue" is oversimplification to point of being ridiculous.

1996 is a great example. WCVI Chinook took a sh*&tkicking as a result of mackeral predation on juveniles in the first great El Nino event of the 90's. DFO predicted the problem, shut everyone down and we all suffered as a result. I was working in the Charlottes full time then, I remember it well. Folks like you were crying the sky was falling then, too.

Well, here we are only 10 years later in the era of "declining stocks", as you describe them and WCVI Chinook are returning at healthy and stable numbers in all of the larger systems, and at numbers as good as or greater than 1996 in many of the smaller wild systems too. What happened? The sky didn't fall, after all. What a shock!!If you want to dispute the escapement information - do your own homework and check out the stream catalogues for WCVI - they're available at your local DFO office. While your at it, take a look at eascapement information for the Fraser, Nass, Skeena and Central Coasts as well - you may be pleasantly surprised. Most systems at or above the 10 year average - including lower Fraser Chinook.

Messing with minumum size limits may be a good excercise to make you feel better but it illustrates you don't understand how natural mortality works on Chinook populations. Think of it this way - is it better to kill a 2 year old facing one more year of predation, disease etc or is it better to kill a 3 year old fish that is more likely to survive to spawn? Wanna do Chinook a favor? Fill yout tag with 45 cm Chinook and stop fishing. Increasing the minimum size limit will only make anglers release more trying to get bigger ones. By the way, no one is stopping you from establishing your own personal size limit if the current one offends you in some way. Fish to your own moral standard if you like, but don't get it confused with conservation and whats best for the fish.

As I already indicated, I agree tha Strait of Georgia Coho and some Chinook stocks face serious problems but I don't agree that further cutbacks to the rec fishery is the solution. I already outlined what I believe the problem is with GS Coho in another post. Would you like me to cut & paste it here to save you the time?

So, as a conservation measure for next year what would I do? The information is not yet complete, but it appears that non-retention of Coho on the South Coast may be a good idea.

Chinook don't need it, so why mess with 'em?

Gooey.
Click to expand...


Interesting Gooey. I can tell where your loyalties lie, and it's pretty obvious that your beliefs are that NO measures should be adopted, the 45 cm limit is "just fine" and you think the SFAB is a total impartial body--that has nothing but great things to offer the future of the resource.

Never mind the rest of the issues at hand...a Sockeye fishery that flounders about in the Fraser.
Wild Coho that aren't making it.
Resident Killer Whales that are having a hard time finding food because resident Chinook populations are "down".

And furthermore, your logic seems to suggest that the smaller the size limit on Chinook, the faster people stop fishing...that's a leap in logic if you ask me.

Also, you seem to think that "it's good to go out there and kill smaller fish...they're just going to get eaten anyways..." Ok, granted that is true. Then let's set up a maximum size limit what are your thoughts on that?

I think it's kinda funny that lots of the WCVI guides and fishers on this thread are the naysayers to conservation ideas on this thread and out there in the general community in general. This same group of people easily discount those ideas as "fear mongering", "ill informed" and "not going to have any impact".

So what you're saying is, DFO is doing just fine managing WCVI stocks, Chinook are in awesome health, and everything is "just great" except with Coho.

BTW the last time I attended a SFAB, all the people I saw in the room were people with a VESTED interest in exploiting the stocks. Funny how that is?

Obviously you're pro point F "everything is fine" with the exception of Coho.

Easy to see where your loyalties lie.
 
So now you guys have heard it and I hope you pay attention to the directives and the syllogistic approach of F.M. and don't you dare have a contrary opinion or you all get a slap on the pee pee......bad boys !!!!


:) :) :) AL
 
Why dont you guys get some boxing gloves and settle this the gold ol boy way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You both have debated this well and one thing you probably can both agree on is to agree on not to agree!!!!!!!I think its time to let it rest!!!!!


Good luck Wolf
 
stat wise maybe chinook wcvi look good . but actually being out there and fishing and talking with guids and other sporties it wasn`t very good at all . will see next year .nootka,renfrew really never got good at all, coming from a buddy guiding at the island camp.and the few days i spent there. scottyboy
 
I guess it all depends also on what people call good, Personally if you go out and get 1 to 4 springs per trip i consider that well its all perspective on what YOU think if your looking for limits every time well then it was bad just like in hunting you dont go out every time a shoot an animal you go out to enjoy the sport and have fun get away from the wife,girlfriend,work etc.

WE all live in a place where we are fortunate enough to go any day time,week when we want if you want to throw back a 45 cm fish go ahead that your choice the same if you want to keep it but dont complain at the end of the day about it.

Fishing is supposed to fun out there people so go out and enjoy it.

Good luck Wolf
 
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