Pinniped Developments

[IronNoggin]

MP Small tables legislation to improve sustainability of fish stocks
February 9, 2022

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Ottawa, ON — Today, Clifford Small, Conservative Member of Parliament for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, introduced Bill C-251, the Federal Framework on the Conservation of Fish Stocks and management of Pinnipeds Act, to promote the sustainability of Canada’s fish stocks.

Bill C-251 will ensure that conservation and protection of marine ecosystems are built into a new federal framework while opening the door for businesses and Indigenous communities to sell and trade pinniped products.

The Conservative Party of Canada supports a framework to provide business owners, harvesters, and Indigenous groups with guidance and predictability regarding the impact of pinniped populations on fish stocks.

“Healthy marine stocks ensure a vibrant fisheries economy, and the long-term sustainability of ecosystems and food chains in the ocean,” said M.P. Small. “For too long, Canadians whose livelihoods depend on healthy fish stocks, have witnessed the failure of conservation measures to ensure the sustainability of those stocks.”

“This legislation will provide an evidence-based framework to improve marine conservation and ensure the health of marine ecosystems that so many livelihoods on all coasts depend on,” concluded Small.

The Bill:

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/bill/C-251/first-reading

Cheers,
Nog

 

[searun]

Justin will find some way to align with ENGO's. Pee Wee Herman has no spine, and given his pension for stealing $$ donated to the Truckers or anyone who doesn't agree with his world view it won't be long before he jails the Conservatives who promoted this Bill. Seems that is his leaning these days. Sick and tired of the whole line of BS from them. I better not say I support the Bill, may end up doing some jail time.

 

[Old Fisher]

The Bill sounds like a step in the right direction. But it will never pass in Ottawa. JT’s government has shown repeatedly that it will always side with ENGOs and huggers (note who the Environment Minister is) to the detriment of recreational fishers. The only way recreational fishers and the businesses directly and indirectly involved will ever make headway is when we collectively show this sad excuse for a government the way to the golden door. And while I’m ranting, it would be nice to hear BCs provincial government showing some real spine in the support of its recreational fishing industry. For a change.

 

[IronNoggin]

The Bill sounds like a step in the right direction. But it will never pass in Ottawa.

Don't be so sure of that.
Our team has been rallying the MP's pretty hard on this Bill.
To date, we have the full support of the Conservatives and the Bloq.
And surprisingly enough, there is quite the handful of Liberals supporting it as well.
The latter started off in the Maritimes, but has now grown.

If YOU want to help make a difference and your MP happens to be NDP or Liberal, send them an email or letter suggesting they support Bill c - 251 when it comes up for second reading (April 27).

Cheers,
Nog

 

[IronNoggin]

For all the naysayers in the crowd, I strongly suggest you pay attention to the second reading of Bill C 251 next Wednesday.

And if you are in support yourself, a quick Email or letter to your own MP encouraging them to follow suit would certainly be appreciated.

Cheers,
Nog

 

[searun]

For all the naysayers in the crowd, I strongly suggest you pay attention to the second reading of Bill C 251 next Wednesday.

And if you are in support yourself, a quick Email or letter to your own MP encouraging them to follow suit would certainly be appreciated.

Cheers,
Nog

Better yet, take your MP fishing and show them first hand what is happening in our fishery. Stream-type Chinook and Steelhead who migrate out as larger smolts (more sought after as prey) than their Ocean-type Chinook cousins are in real trouble. We are now seeing the Interior Fraser Stream-type declines happening in the Northern rivers. Common thread being pinniped predation and using the same offshore high seas ocean habitat. Its just a matter of a few short years and the Skeena system Chinook will follow the same death spiral as we have witnessed in the south.

 

[steeler]

Better yet, take your MP fishing and show them first hand what is happening in our fishery. Stream-type Chinook and Steelhead who migrate out as larger smolts (more sought after as prey) than their Ocean-type Chinook cousins are in real trouble. We are now seeing the Interior Fraser Stream-type declines happening in the Northern rivers. Common thread being pinniped predation and using the same offshore high seas ocean habitat. Its just a matter of a few short years and the Skeena system Chinook will follow the same death spiral as we have witnessed in the south.

Another common thread is more life cycle in hostile freshwater conditions coho are also in decline. Fresh water conditions play a much larger role and using their decline to justify increased predation as the cause makes little to no sense. The reason salmon that live in fresh water longer are in a worse decline is entirely human caused whether industry, development, over harvesting and global warming. If there is a true need to cull pinnipeds then so be it, thinking removing them and all will be fine is a fantasy though and numbers will continue to decline even if every last one was blasted.

 

[Derby]

Have u been on the water lately.... Just came of Barkley sound a couple weeks ago.. for the first time I can ever remember there a huge pile of sea lions already in the sound never seen that at this time of year.. yup no problem here.. its all fresh water .. lol

 

[steeler]

Have you walked a river in the last couple years in the summer or the winter. Lower levels and higher levels then ever before... dried up rivers and overflowing torrents....yup no problem there its all pinnipeds

 

[Derby]

never said that dude but to stick your head in the mud and think pinapeds may contribute to the decline is simple wrong.. period

Perhaps shows your lack of time on the estuary's and in the rivers.. got lot's time in the area's

 

[steeler]

never said that dude but to stick your head in the mud and think pinapeds may contribute to the decline is simple wrong.. period

Perhaps shows your lack of time on the estuary's and in the rivers.. got lot's time in the area's

Pinnipeds have an impact on fish stocks however they are far down the list of concerns to salmon survival all of the other non natural impacts weigh far heavier on salmon stocks then natural predators. I would agree that more monitoring and development of ways to cull pinnipeds where they have become habituated to stocks of concern would be great and removing man made barriers that make salmon more vulnerable to predators. The problem is it doesn't address the root causes of decline and only distracts the limited effort from governments to help salmon into something that is misguided at best. Hake are the number one food source for sea lions, why are hake doing so well when salmon aren't should be the question, not remove predators because at some point that includes us and that still wont help rebuild stocks.

 

[Derby]

I would suggest not that far down that list but it is a list.. as for for the seal and sea lions i not going to debate what there favorite foods are (hake) .. I would suggest that 10 -15 percent of the population (pinapeds) is causing the problems... the rest of the critter are not the problem...

 

[IronNoggin]

Pinnipeds have an impact on fish stocks however they are far down the list of concerns to salmon survival all of the other non natural impacts weigh far heavier on salmon stocks then natural predators.

You have obviously paid zero attention to the huge amount of science that dispels your misguided belief.
Yes, there are indeed other bottlenecks and concerns.
However at this exact juncture, the greatest bottleneck is predation.
Period.

Nog

 

[mac_davy]

You have obviously paid zero attention to the huge amount of science that dispels your misguided belief.
Yes, there are indeed other bottlenecks and concerns.
However at this exact juncture, the greatest bottleneck is predation.
Period.

Nog

steeler is a green party member or something he's been arguing all day, never offering anything other than to tell us we are wrong. Steeler I've fished sand heads many times, it's no secret that the breakwater is loaded with fat seals sunning themselves all day and rolling into the river to gorge on salmon completely free of predation, 50 to 60 lbs of salmon a day to be exact. If you think this has no impact on salmon stocks I suggest reading some biologist reports, doing a cull will have no impact, seals are never going to be endangered https://theplanetmagazine.net/how-seals-may-be-impacting-salmon-conservation-d99faeaa207f

 

[steeler]

sorry im not a green party anything and if i were too assume your political party it would be ppc but I am not so quick to make everything political as some seem to be. Had you read the post two up from the one you wrote you would see my first line says impact just not as big an impact as a whole raft of other issues, targeted culls would obviously take some pressure off some stocks but wont help if the other factors which are more of a priority aren't addressed. They aren't the cause of salmon decline and co survived for thousands of years with abundance of both only to be up ended by human activities. They eat 50 to 60 pounds of fish a day that doesn't mean salmon all day everyday when the timing is right they feed on salmon as they always have.

 

[searun]

Great article, with similar research results to what Dr. Carl Walters at UBC has uncovered. A few notable highlights from the article:

"Seal salmon consumption is on the rise, inspiring proposed seal management strategies. A 2017 study found that between 1970 and 2015, seal predation on salmon had increased from 68 to 625 metric tons, double the amount of salmon consumed by orcas and six times more salmon than combined recreational and commercial catches in 2015."

Hard to argue that Seal predation isn't a significant concern when the total removals from seal predation have increased 919% or 9 fold over a 45 year span.

"Since the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1972, harbor seals and sea lions in the Salish Sea, two salmon predators, have thrived and their populations have grown dramatically according to a 2003 study. The researchers assessed that from 1978 to 1999, harbor seal populations in Washington State grew from 7,000 to more than 19,000. The study found that harbor seal populations could be reduced by 20% and still be above the optimal population size for filling their ecological role. Since that study was published, seal populations have continued to rise, Lewis said."

Other way to say that the current population of Harbour Seals is way above the natural carrying capacity of the environment, and IMO, much of the increase is human caused. By human caused I mean we humans have made it illegal or culturally taboo for FN's harvest seals - FN's traditional harvest was part of the natural environment - it was the European beliefs and values imposed on FN's that has artificially created an imbalance removing this naturally occurring removal that controlled seal populations. Another human caused problem is we introduced artificial platforms (log booms, docks, diking systems) in river estuaries making it possible for seals to become even more highly effective predators because we have created haul out locations that never existed. Researchers have noted that predation on Chinook is highest near these haul out sites - and it is our human caused interventions creating those sites that has grossly compounded predation effects.

So when we consider the seal issue, its important to also consider how our human actions have dramatically shifted the effectiveness of seal predation to create a significant imbalance.

 

[mac_davy]

sorry im not a green party anything and if i were too assume your political party it would be ppc but I am not so quick to make everything political as some seem to be. Had you read the post two up from the one you wrote you would see my first line says impact just not as big an impact as a whole raft of other issues, targeted culls would obviously take some pressure off some stocks but wont help if the other factors which are more of a priority aren't addressed. They aren't the cause of salmon decline and co survived for thousands of years with abundance of both only to be up ended by human activities. They eat 50 to 60 pounds of fish a day that doesn't mean salmon all day everyday when the timing is right they feed on salmon as they always have.

for thousands of years, FN hunted them and likely more KW as well, up to thirty years ago the fishing crews culled them, they have since 1990 increased 1000%

 

[seascene]

From D.Suzuki article:
A century ago, on April 24, 1918, fisheries “engineer” J. McHugh reported that he put dynamite on seal haulouts at the mouth of the Fraser River, waited for 200 to 300 seals to re-aggregate and then detonated the explosives. He reported, “their bodies were blown to atoms, not a piece larger than two inches being found. In 1941, sea lions were culled by machine-guns mounted on fishery patrol vessels in a “conservation effort to save the seafood wealth of the nation,” according to a report in Western Fisheries. In total, 114,903 harbour seals and 49,100 sea lions were reported killed under the federal government’s culling program that operated from 1918 to 1968. A lot more were likely killed but sank after shooting or went unreported, and several thousand more were killed in commercial operations."

The boat in the pic is where I live... 15 years cruising the nooks and crannies of this coast. Seals and sea lions literally blockade spawning rivers and know exactly when to show up. Anchoring typically out of river currents but nearby I have heard and watched them slap their catches of salmon on the surface of the water as part of their feasting all day everyday. They take an incredible toll on salmon.

 

[seascene]

The quote above shows a fisheries precedent for cull. Co-incidence that there were a lot of salmon 1918-1968?

 

[Whitebuck]

Great news Nog. Currently in the LM on most rivers there is seals in twos or threes patrolling the lower sections daily. Pretty easy to find always within the first couple km of where the rivers meet the Pitt, Harrison or Fraser. Would be great to see those seals taken out. There is on one lower Fraser tributary that has had 4 living in the lower section for a couple years now.

Seals have no business being in our rivers...especially when I have first hand seen them as high up as Spences Bridge....but removing them is not a magical bullet that will save everything. There is so many other factors to consider. As per the upper Skeena Chinook the increase in netting the last decade in river directly targetting those upper fish has been a major problem. Throw in **** poor logging practice, drought, flood and bad ocean conditions these stocks need all the help they can get.

Is there a place I can sign up to help "legally" rid the seals in the LM and Fraser canyon?