Norway Study Recommends Moving to Closed Containment Salmon Farms

[fogged in]

Yeah, and Donald Trump will make a GREAT president.
Can you answer my question?

If you insist I will answer your question Dave...not that it's worth answering...
What the USA does has nothing to do with what we do in Canada.
But if you really want to compare policy...please tell me what Alaska does to control foreign owned Open Pen Fish Farms?
Would you prefer to live in the USA.?
enough of getting personal...eh,,,, as we say in Canada
This conversation is going nowhere.
your opinion is clear and we are not likely to agree on Canadian Open Pen Fish Farms

 

[Birdsnest]

Since chile has confirmed isa"e" and it wiped out the farmed Atlantic stocks how come they have thriving trout and spring salmon fisheries?

If you insist I will answer your question Dave...not that it's worth answering...
What the USA does has nothing to do with what we do in Canada.
But if you really want to compare policy...please tell me what Alaska does to control foreign owned Open Pen Fish Farms?
Would you prefer to live in the USA.?
enough of getting personal...eh,,,, as we say in Canada
This conversation is going nowhere.
your opinion is clear and we are not likely to agree on Canadian Open Pen Fish Farms

Salmon ranching. It's not good the way it is being done.

 

[Dave]

If you insist I will answer your question Dave...not that it's worth answering...
What the USA does has nothing to do with what we do in Canada.
But if you really want to compare policy...please tell me what Alaska does to control foreign owned Open Pen Fish Farms?
Would you prefer to live in the USA.?
enough of getting personal...eh,,,, as we say in Canada
This conversation is going nowhere.
your opinion is clear and we are not likely to agree on Canadian Open Pen Fish Farms

This is your answer? I expected as much. Funny, no one seems to want to answer why Ms. Morton ignores American salmon farming but slams Canadian farms.

 

[fogged in]

Since chile has confirmed isa"e" and it wiped out the farmed Atlantic stocks how come they have thriving trout and spring salmon fisheries?
Salmon ranching. It's not good the way it is being done.

Birdsnest
Are you an expert on Salmon Ranching?
Do you know if Alaska allows open pen Fish Farms in their waters?
And perhaps you can tell us if Chile has any restrictions on the use of Antibiotic in Fish Farms?
My understanding is the use of antibiotic's in Chilean Fish Farms is the highest in the world.
How many Atlantic salmon die each year in BC Fish Farms and is it only isa"a" killing them?
Has the well documented and admitted by BC Fish Farms problem with sea lice been resolved and if so how?
Like I said to Dave
You and I are never going to agree on Fish Farms in our waters and to debate it further is nothing more than a waste of time.
Safe to say I support Alex Morton and you, Dave and a few others do not.

 

[Birdsnest]

Birdsnest
Are you an expert on Salmon Ranching?

No
But I do agree that introducing fish into the wild that far exceed the capacity of that area, the north pacific , is a problem especially when wild salmon feed conversion is much higher than those of farmed. There is no control over what the fish are eating. It basically turns into a competition to see which nation can mine the oceans of it protein and pays no attention the the effects on the wild.
http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/NAsept-oct-pgs14-15c.pdf

Birdsnest

Do you know if Alaska allows open pen Fish Farms in their waters?

Yes they do and they use vaccines and antibiotics as well. The only difference is they do not grow them out there.

Birdsnest

And perhaps you can tell us if Chile has any restrictions on the use of Antibiotic in Fish Farms?

No amount of antibiotics is going to stop isa, regardless wild fisheries seem to be ok there.

Birdsnest
How many Atlantic salmon die each year in BC Fish Farms and is it only isa"a" killing them?

About 10% but, no deaths from isa in fact isa is not confirmed in bc.

Birdsnest

Has the well documented and admitted by BC Fish Farms problem with sea lice been resolved and if so how?

Pink salmon populations have increased since the arrival of salmon farms. Farms are treated when necessary.

 

[Birdsnest]

About this: http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/NAsept-oct-pgs14-15c.pdf

Fogged in,
Can you challenge the facts in this presentation or will you simply dismiss the contents because it is written my a salmon farmer.

 

[Clint r]

Again, nothing to worry about here in BC or Washington considering that millions of juvenile Atlantics have been transplanted here over the years with none colonizing our rivers. And, when was the last time you read of a documented and verified siting of a juvenile Atlantic here in BC? I would guess about 10 or more years ago. Any adults? No.

Comparing Norway’s (or Chile’s or Scotland or New Brunswick, or Ireland or etc..) salmon farming problems with what we have here is apples to oranges and that is why, imo, we here on the Pacific coast are positioned so correctly to do this right. It seems that after nearly 40 years, this industry, despite the misinformation the anti’s portray, is doing quite well.

As an aside, I have always wondered why Washington State salmon farms are not harassed and vilified by people like Alexandra Morton? Why are those farms deemed OK, but BC farms are not? Afaik, same fish cultural practices, same feed, same everything except… a different country.

Why didn’t the Sea Shepherds’ Motor Vessel Martin Sheen visit these farms? Thoughts??

Again, nothing to worry about here in BC or Washington considering that millions of juvenile Atlantics have been transplanted here over the years with none colonizing our rivers. And, when was the last time you read of a documented and verified siting of a juvenile Atlantic here in BC? I would guess about 10 or more years ago. Any adults? No.

Comparing Norway’s (or Chile’s or Scotland or New Brunswick, or Ireland or etc..) salmon farming problems with what we have here is apples to oranges and that is why, imo, we here on the Pacific coast are positioned so correctly to do this right. It seems that after nearly 40 years, this industry, despite the misinformation the anti’s portray, is doing quite well.

As an aside, I have always wondered why Washington State salmon farms are not harassed and vilified by people like Alexandra Morton? Why are those farms deemed OK, but BC farms are not? Afaik, same fish cultural practices, same feed, same everything except… a different country.

Why didn’t the Sea Shepherds’ Motor Vessel Martin Sheen visit these farms? Thoughts??

See there's the real problem. For all you know they could have same fish farm practices or could be this or could be that blah blah blah. Always vilifying folks for "no proof" or "where's the documentation?" Or even going so far as to question their schooling, yet you respond with " for all I know?"

 

[agentaqua]

The carrying capacity of the ocean is an issue - although there are many significant differences between ocean ranching and fish farming. Comparing and subsequently suggesting the better option is pellet-fed feed (using dry-to-wet conversion ratios) to wild salmon that eat natural feed sources is bizarre - if not misguided. ISA has not been "confirmed" by CFIA - for the reasons listed on my previous post. ISAv has been found numerous times in the Pacific already - but is likely slightly altered - and the test can't confirm it. A larger issue is PRV - which is currently not listed, not tested for and rife in farm fish and is showing up in many wild fish. There are likely many more unknown viruses being both promoted and introduced via fish farm populations. I believe we are on the cusp of learning enough about these disease pathogens and the transfer - to sue the federal government and ban the open net-cage technology.

 

[gone fishin]

It seems to me Fish Farm supporters and those who appose Fish Farms can Google studies to support their respective position ad infinitum
There are a few big time pushers of Fish Farms on this site who seem to think it is their mission to educate those of us who believe Fish Farms do not belong in our pristine waters.
These Fish Farm supporters have yet to convince me or anyone I know that Fish Farms belong anywhere but on dry land.

 

[Clint r]

About this: http://www.certifiedorganic.bc.ca/rcbtoa/services/NAsept-oct-pgs14-15c.pdf

Fogged in,
Can you challenge the facts in this presentation or will you simply dismiss the contents because it is written my a salmon farmer.[/QUOTE

Hold the writer of this article to the same standard pro farmers hold MS Morton and yes this article can/should be challenged/dismissed.

 

[salmonkiller01]

The study is biased, the writer worked with the aquaculture industry for most of his career, and serves no other purpose than to promote salmon farming

1. "Bill Vernon has worked in aquaculture-related businesses for over twenty years. Starting in 1989 he helped build Tofino-based Creative Salmon to become a successful farming company growing Pacific salmon. Vernon has also been a strong supporter of salmon enhancement efforts as well as the Streamkeepers program in Clayoquot Sound. "
   

 

[agentaqua]

.. Funny, no one seems to want to answer why Ms. Morton ignores American salmon farming but slams Canadian farms.

To respond to your previous question, dave - not sure why you are focusing on this other than to possibly deflect from the focus on the Canadian operations.

 

[Dave]

Not deflecting at all .. it's a simple question that never gets answered. Could it be Washington farms are harmless and that is why she leaves them alone, or just spitballing here, could it be any anti American focus from her might dry up some American foundation funding? Is this perhaps why she never has any comments on Alaskan salmon ranching as well?
As a self proclaimed protector of wild salmon, why no condemnation of over fishing by FN and commercial boats, or habitat loss, or pipelines, or pollution from cities like Vancouver and Victoria?
Her agenda is strictly anti Canadian salmon farming and the skeptic in me wonders why.

 

[terrin]

Not deflecting at all .. it's a simple question that never gets answered. Could it be Washington farms are harmless and that is why she leaves them alone, or just spitballing here, could it be any anti American focus from her might dry up some American foundation funding? Is this perhaps why she never has any comments on Alaskan salmon ranching as well?
As a self proclaimed protector of wild salmon, why no condemnation of over fishing by FN and commercial boats, or habitat loss, or pipelines, or pollution from cities like Vancouver and Victoria?
Her agenda is strictly anti Canadian salmon farming and the skeptic in me wonders why.

Her focus is on Open Net Cage Farming in B.C. and all of the nasty schite that comes with it. Doesn't mean Open Net Cage Farms elsewhere are OK but just that that is where her efforts are focused and there are surely others focusing on those.

 

[agentaqua]

Not deflecting at all .. it's a simple question that never gets answered. Could it be Washington farms are harmless and that is why she leaves them alone, or just spitballing here, could it be any anti American focus from her might dry up some American foundation funding? Is this perhaps why she never has any comments on Alaskan salmon ranching as well? As a self proclaimed protector of wild salmon, why no condemnation of over fishing by FN and commercial boats, or habitat loss, or pipelines, or pollution from cities like Vancouver and Victoria? Her agenda is strictly anti Canadian salmon farming and the skeptic in me wonders why.

Nothing wrong with being a skeptic, Dave. My guess on your "spitball" is that she lives in Canada and has for quite a while (Broughtons/Sointula) - even though at one time - she was born in the US. Aside from that - I can't say I know what differences there are between locations, loading, operations, regulations and enforcement for open net-cages in the State of Washington. Maybe you have some knowledge to contribute here?

 

[Admin]

For those of you who missed my post in one of the other infamous fish farm threads, I will remind you to stay on topic. If you can't stay on topic DON"T POST. Yes, I am yelling because I am tired of repeating the same message. If you can't stay on topic, I will remove your privileges and close the thread.

Brian

 

[Dave]

Point taken.

 

[shuswap]

The carrying capacity of the ocean is an issue - although there are many significant differences between ocean ranching and fish farming.

Other than the obvious fact that farmed Atlantic salmon are raised in net pens to adult and species raised in ranching, there is no difference between the two. Both involve the artificial propagation of juvenile salmon for release into the ocean for all or part of their life history. After freshwater rearing, they are transferred to ocean net pens and fed pellet food like farmed salmon. Ranched salmon can be treated with antibiotics if needed and given vaccines.

 

[agentaqua]

Other than the obvious fact that farmed Atlantic salmon are raised in net pens to adult and species raised in ranching, there is no difference between the two. ..

Not sure why you avoided admitting these points:
1/ The so-called "ocean ranching" done in AK uses broodstock/smolts from their natal (or normal/natural) areas that should be exposed to whatever pathogens the returning/spawning adults would normally bring, and
2/ The feeding only happens for a few weeks - so these "farms" won't have adult fish concentrating and releasing new and/or elevated pathogens and parasites when the next years juvies outmigrate.

The last point is really the key difference - and is the important difference wrt disease risk management.

 

[shuswap]

Hello Net Pen Fish Farm Supporters! Curious if you agree, or disagree with the findings and recommendations of this study?

Link to the study: http://www.svt.ntnu.no/iso/anders.skonhoft/Marine Policy salmon overview 2010.pdf
____________________________________________________________________________
Excerpt from The Tyee, Aug. 31, 2016 that refers to the above mentioned study:
"Corporate fish farms raising Atlantic salmon have created controversy in Norway, Chile, Scotland and Canada due to pollution, epidemics, escapees and viral disease exchanges that have resulted in steady declines of local wild fish populations.

A 2010 study of the industry’s impact on Norway’s wild salmon concluded “it seems clear that salmon farming is the main threat to the viability of wild salmon due to spread of diseases, escapees, environmental pollution, etc.”

As a result, the embattled Norwegian arm of the industry recently announced it is prepared to invest $100 million in closed containment systems that would end all biological contact with wild fish and other marine creatures."

In Canada, we had a rather expensive inquiry that explored multiple factors in great detail with a wide variety of testimony from conservationists, industry, government, stakeholders, First Nations and university academia. It produced many findings, technical reports and recommendations. This study from Norway may be applicable to the situation there. but it's findings and recommendations not so simply transferred here if you read the Cohen Final Report, in my opinion. However, the implementation of specific marine zones (not just a 1 km buffer from a salmon bearing stream) with no fish farming could be explored (i.e. wild salmon narrows). Ironically, industry and government did consider these zones during the inquiry.