MAD COW FISH ?

[agentaqua]

Terry,

As you know - I admire both your passion and your caring for the future of our salmon.

However, I have to disagree on sockeyefry's inclusion on this forum.

Not only should we all be standing-up for freedom of speech and the right to disagree in our country (as some other countries often stifle this human right through violence, like Iran and China) - but more importantly, w/o people like sockeyefry we have no dialogue, and no chance for others to get educated about this (I believe) important topic.

In our search for truth, most people can easily see through many of the lies and half-truths, and we need to expose these lies and half-truths to light so they can be disarmed.

These lies and half-truths are not repeated only in this forum, but more importantly through the greater public forum which include other media such as letters to the editor, and columns written by such authors as the BC Salmon Growers Assn, Odd Gryland, Patrick Moore, and others.

We need to educate people about these lies, and give them ammunition to respond in an educated and reasoned fashion to these lies. That's where this forum, and all of us (me, you, sockeyefry, and other sportfishermen) are invaluable.

 

[agentaqua]

Terry,

As you know - I admire both your passion and your caring for the future of our salmon.

However, I have to disagree on sockeyefry's inclusion on this forum.

Not only should we all be standing-up for freedom of speech and the right to disagree in our country (as some other countries often stifle this human right through violence, like Iran and China) - but more importantly, w/o people like sockeyefry we have no dialogue, and no chance for others to get educated about this (I believe) important topic.

In our search for truth, most people can easily see through many of the lies and half-truths, and we need to expose these lies and half-truths to light so they can be disarmed.

These lies and half-truths are not repeated only in this forum, but more importantly through the greater public forum which include other media such as letters to the editor, and columns written by such authors as the BC Salmon Growers Assn, Odd Gryland, Patrick Moore, and others.

We need to educate people about these lies, and give them ammunition to respond in an educated and reasoned fashion to these lies. That's where this forum, and all of us (me, you, sockeyefry, and other sportfishermen) are invaluable.

 

[The Fish Assassin]

quote:Not only should we all be standing-up for freedom of speech and the right to disagree in our country (as some other countries often stifle this human right through violence, like Iran and China) - but more importantly, w/o people like sockeyefry we have no dialogue, and no chance for others to get educated about this (I believe) important topic.

That being said... this is a saltwater fishing forum, I have never read any tips or advice givin by sockeyefry. This, I believe, is why this forum was created not to shed views on farmed fish. Anyone who uses this forum for the purpose intended would most likly agree that farmed fish is horribly wrong on so many levels, so why do we give these loonies the time of day on here? If they want us to be aware of the advantages of farmed fish they should have to take out a newspaper add. It gets alot of us ticked off when they come on here trying to educate us on the benifits from farming salmon. I liken it to the Taliban trying to educate us that the herion trade is a good money maker.

Take only what you need.

 

[The Fish Assassin]

quote:Not only should we all be standing-up for freedom of speech and the right to disagree in our country (as some other countries often stifle this human right through violence, like Iran and China) - but more importantly, w/o people like sockeyefry we have no dialogue, and no chance for others to get educated about this (I believe) important topic.

That being said... this is a saltwater fishing forum, I have never read any tips or advice givin by sockeyefry. This, I believe, is why this forum was created not to shed views on farmed fish. Anyone who uses this forum for the purpose intended would most likly agree that farmed fish is horribly wrong on so many levels, so why do we give these loonies the time of day on here? If they want us to be aware of the advantages of farmed fish they should have to take out a newspaper add. It gets alot of us ticked off when they come on here trying to educate us on the benifits from farming salmon. I liken it to the Taliban trying to educate us that the herion trade is a good money maker.

Take only what you need.

 

[agentaqua]

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin



That being said... this is a saltwater fishing forum, I have never read any tips or advice givin by sockeyefry. This, I believe, is why this forum was created not to shed views on farmed fish. Anyone who uses this forum for the purpose intended would most likly agree that farmed fish is horribly wrong on so many levels, so why do we give these loonies the time of day on here? If they want us to be aware of the advantages of farmed fish they should have to take out a newspaper add. It gets alot of us ticked off when they come on here trying to educate us on the benifits from farming salmon. I liken it to the Taliban trying to educate us that the herion trade is a good money maker.

Take only what you need.

Interesting parallel you bring-up, FA.

Yes, you are right - somebody does make money on the heroin trade, somebody makes money by selling guns to the drug lords, and somebody does buy the stuff.

So, using the omnipresent and tirelessly used economic rose-coloured filters - it is a "revenue-generating" business, that would cost people jobs in remote areas if that business were shut-down (sound like a familiar industry response?).

But there are many social costs to all this profit-making, that are denied or minimalized when describing this economic venture (again, sound like a familiar industry response?).

So, your parallel is right-on the mark from this perspective.

Why aren't we having a dialogue on this issue in the public media?

Do you think if Dick Cheney or a CEO of an arms company told the public they should shoot more heroin - would that elevate the debate in the public?

 

[agentaqua]

quote:Originally posted by The Fish Assassin



That being said... this is a saltwater fishing forum, I have never read any tips or advice givin by sockeyefry. This, I believe, is why this forum was created not to shed views on farmed fish. Anyone who uses this forum for the purpose intended would most likly agree that farmed fish is horribly wrong on so many levels, so why do we give these loonies the time of day on here? If they want us to be aware of the advantages of farmed fish they should have to take out a newspaper add. It gets alot of us ticked off when they come on here trying to educate us on the benifits from farming salmon. I liken it to the Taliban trying to educate us that the herion trade is a good money maker.

Take only what you need.

Interesting parallel you bring-up, FA.

Yes, you are right - somebody does make money on the heroin trade, somebody makes money by selling guns to the drug lords, and somebody does buy the stuff.

So, using the omnipresent and tirelessly used economic rose-coloured filters - it is a "revenue-generating" business, that would cost people jobs in remote areas if that business were shut-down (sound like a familiar industry response?).

But there are many social costs to all this profit-making, that are denied or minimalized when describing this economic venture (again, sound like a familiar industry response?).

So, your parallel is right-on the mark from this perspective.

Why aren't we having a dialogue on this issue in the public media?

Do you think if Dick Cheney or a CEO of an arms company told the public they should shoot more heroin - would that elevate the debate in the public?

 

[sockeyefry]

So now I am a heroin dealer and a pedophile? I should go with the idiots? Are the mods of this site going to allow such personal attacks? And the reason for such character slams is that I simply disagree with a few people.

Well keep it up, cause I ain't going anywhere.

Check out the title of the discussion, FA. This is where views are shed of farms. I did not read an anti fish farm only sign, did you see one?

Brisco, It's a free country last time I checked. Besides there are alot of sportfishers who see the reality and have accepted fish farms as being a viable use of the water resources. Ever wonder why the best places to catch prawns is around a salmon farm.

 

[Brisco]

Oh gee, thats what I want to eat prawns with drugs in them from eating your farm fish crap. I'm using my free speech to say you are an idiot.

 

[nedarb2]

quote:Originally posted by sockeyefry

So now I am a heroin dealer and a pedophile? I should go with the idiots? Are the mods of this site going to allow such personal attacks? And the reason for such character slams is that I simply disagree with a few people.

Yes, yes you are a heroin dealer, agentaqua clearly just told you that

sockeyefry, you are the somebody - somebody does make money on the heroin trade, somebody makes money by selling guns to the drug lords, and somebody does buy the stuff.

geeze you read good.

 

[Last Chance]

Sigh...

As someone who is watching this thing as a spectator (FF Debate), I think that actions like insults, and personal attacks REALLY HURT the credibility of the causes being worked for.

The best way for anyone to sell their side of anything is with a calm organized approach. Name calling and personal attacks are not one of them.

A debate is a debate.



Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[agentaqua]

quote:Originally posted by LastChance

Sigh...

As someone who is watching this thing as a spectator (FF Debate), I think that actions like insults, and personal attacks REALLY HURT the credibility of the causes being worked for.

The best way for anyone to sell their side of anything is with a calm organized approach. Name calling and personal attacks are not one of them.

A debate is a debate.



Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

I have to agree here. As far as I'm aware, I haven't called sockeyefry any of those unwarranted terms he brought-up - and I am still standing firm on the inclusion of sockeyefry and his perspective and needing to hear both sides of any debate - since w/o that inclusion - we have no debate.

I like to see lies and half-truths exposed, so we can all deal with them.

 

[Last Chance]

quote:Originally posted by agentaqua

quote:Originally posted by LastChance

Sigh...

As someone who is watching this thing as a spectator (FF Debate), I think that actions like insults, and personal attacks REALLY HURT the credibility of the causes being worked for.

The best way for anyone to sell their side of anything is with a calm organized approach. Name calling and personal attacks are not one of them.

A debate is a debate.



Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

I have to agree here. As far as I'm aware, I haven't called sockeyefry any of those unwarranted terms he brought-up - and I am still standing firm on the inclusion of sockeyefry and his perspective and needing to hear both sides of any debate - since w/o that inclusion - we have no debate.

I like to see lies and half-truths exposed, so we can all deal with them.

Exactly the best way to deal with them.

Last Chance Fishing Adventures

www.lastchancefishingadventures.com
www.swiftsurebank.com

 

[sockeyefry]

Actually Brisco, They have studied the accumulation of fish farm therapeutants in shellfish because people are interested in growing shellfish around salmon farms. They found no such accumulation. The fellow name was Steve Cross, and I will try and find the reference.

Agent,
I enjoy our little debate. and yes you never have stooped to the level of a few on this site. I commend you for that and for stepping up in my defense.

 

[The Fish Assassin]

I don't know..like free speech everyone is entiled to their own opinion. If people feel that way about you Sockeyefry deal with it. Maybe it's gut check time for you?

Take only what you need.

 

[cliffjumper]

To imagine there are NOT paid pr hacks for BOTH sides of any poli-argument is specious whimsy at the very best.

As a reasonably pragmatic person who tends to believe only one truth strongly... Banks have been the root cause of every recession & depression which occurred throughout history... I disbelieve all other absolutely-stated imaginings.

Too many facts are bandied about too selectively, with the aggregate of facts not assembled for sentient research to obtain an impartial, but empirical conclusion... Like those moronic MDs & PhD's stating mad cow disease just might be perhaps possibly passed to fish, and then to humans... Like maybe an AIDs patient peeing in the oceans just passed AIDs to every fish eater on the planet. Gawd-help African fish. And British fish are going to catch hoof & mouth disease. Gawawleee Gomer!, we jus betta stick to eatin' people, cause the cows pee on the grass & dirt!

It is my personal suspicion both poles, hysterical extremists at each end, fail through their interminable sniping to allow such discovery that would create good solutions in the practise of fish farming. Typical extremists are sound-bite retainers and prolifigates, as sound-bites gain them personal attention and staged importance from casual observers, whose attention-span is vied-for by a thousand other extremists spouting nano-second sound-bites.

I don't believe there's a fish farm between Sidney and Port Renfrew. I'm certain the migrating salmon which harbour sea lice do not shed their sea lice like a cloud of smoke as they pass by Sooke. I have caught a lot of ling cod and rock cod from shore from Sidney to Port Renfrew. They are nowhere near migrating salmon (200' or less from shore). The odd one is packing its' body weight in lice and crawly parasites or symbiants. Many more don't carry any.