Lawsuit Filed against DFO & Marine Harvest!!!

It's quite illustrating CK - that you would rather dream about what I wear while I post - rather than actually have a debate on the science - or lack thereof.

It's interesting that on one post you are attempting to discredit my knowledge by claiming that I only have "limited knowledge" about fish farms - while on another you admit that I "have quite thoroughly investigated" issues. I guess it depends upon whether you like what I have to say - rather than wishing to debate the science because you understand that you cannot defend your industry's actions. I'll let you in on a secret - I "thoroughly investigate" all the issues.

You are (so far) the most immature and myoptic so-called "professional" from the open net-cage industry I have ever attempted to communicate with. However, I appreciate you are ilustrating the lack of willingness to honestly communicate with others, and the myoptic propaganda spewing ad nausium from your industry - to others on the internet. It really illustrates why the functioning of this industry is so acrimonious and disrespectful.

Coming from you I'll take that as a compliment.

Maybe you can "thoroughly investigate" an instance where salmon farms in BC have negatively impacted wild stocks.

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong."
Richard P. Feynman
 
Maybe you can "thoroughly investigate" an instance where salmon farms in BC have negatively impacted wild stocks.

I asked Englishman that same question eons ago and received no reply. Over to you Agent as it seems Charlie is on a bit of a time out (or just catching his breath, I suppose ..)
 
It's interesting that we have had a good hash of the rather major holes in the environmental assessment process (or lack thereof) on this thread and on http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?22898-N-S-fish-farm-rejected-risk-to-wild-salmon where Dave and CK and other pro-farm posters contributed and debated - including where monitoring is NOT done and where escapement data is scarce - and yet here we are again back where we started just like there was no conversation behind all this. Collective amnesia?

The burden of the proof lies with the industry guys and gals - not us posters. Just because you are not doing an adequate job does not mean there is no impacts. It just means we aren't looking.
 
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I'll just leave you with this: "you might seek to follow up the hypotheses and experiments you have provided with some evidence of them holding true in the real world."

And I'll yet again leave you with "just" these. Which are examples of scientific work in the real world (which you continue to ignore in your never-never world of fish feed lots), that provide an overwhelming mountain of evidence of harm to wild salmon and their environment.

Impacts on wild fish populations

  • General
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0060033
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/63/7/1162.short
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f91-055#.UaTaVJwalzM
http://www.iatp.org/files/Marine_Aquaculture_in_the_United_States_Enviro.htm

  • Thru’ Sea lice infestation
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/276/1672/3385.short
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080212085841.htm
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/272/1564/689.short
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10641260500433531#.UZ-mUMoambs
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/f04-016
http://www.pnas.org/content/103/42/15506.short
http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&...mN9VDE#v=onepage&q=fish farm sea lice&f=false
http://vhost1.ucs.sfu.ca:9870/science/resources/1320967624.pdf
http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/content/59/1/131.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2109.2001.00627.x/abstract
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004484860500030X
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/M04-149.1#.UaQgapwalzM
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/f10-105#.UaQmD5walzM
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/318/5857/1772.short
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/M07-042.1#.UaTWlpwalzM

  • Thru’ Disease Transmission and Interaction
http://www.pnas.org/content/103/42/15506.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004484869190392K
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1577/1548-8667(1998)010<0107:ROTHPA>2.0.CO;2#.UaTaA5walzM
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/004484869190370M
http://rsif.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/4/15/699.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0020751907000100
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0044848686901675

  • Thru’ Harvesting wild fish for Feed
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v405/n6790/abs/4051017a0.html
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1095-8649.1994.tb01285.x/abstract
 
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Maybe you can "thoroughly investigate" an instance where salmon farms in BC have negatively impacted wild stocks.

Maybe you could explain how this table shows you don't impact wild stocks.....
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquacu...ocs/incidental-accidentel/2012-Q2-T2-eng.html

Here I'll give you a hint...... INCIDENTAL CATCH April - June 2012
AQFF 227Mainstream CanadaDixon24HerringClupea pallasii2.5 metric tonnes*

*The incidental catch of herring at this facility occurred during a planned depopulation to control the spread of Infectious Haematopoietic Necrosis virus (IHNv).

Can you tell us what was done with the herring bycatch?
 
I'll just leave you with this: "you might seek to follow up the hypotheses and experiments you have provided with some evidence of them holding true in the real world."
The reason your Norwegian companies don’t want to play in the U.S. is they don’t like our laws. The Norwegians have already tested our courts and found if they are guilty of violating our Clean Water Act that alone would cost them very dearly:

“The maximum penalty is $25,000 per day for violations occurring on or before January 30, 1997, see 33 U.S.C. § 1319(d), and $27,500 per day for violations occurring after January 31, 1997, see 40 C.F.R. §§ 19.2, 19.4. Assessing only a single violation each day since October 22, 1990, each Defendant stands exposed to a damages award in excess of $9,500,000.

The Salmon Farming Industry Is Irresponsible and found guilty of the following:
Pollutant Discharges: Salmon farms have discharged the following pollutants into coastal waters:


  1. Hundreds of tons of fecal matter and uneaten fish feed each year, from each farm;
  2. Antibiotics, which at times are added to the feed;
  3. Synthetic pigments to color the salmon's flesh pink, which are always added to the feed;
  4. Waste products from the chicken processing industry - such as ground up blood, feathers and carcasses - which are a constituent of some feeds;
  5. Copper, a toxic metal contained in a coating applied to the nets to prevent marine growth;
  6. Formaldehyde and anesthetics;
  7. Pathogens (disease-causing agents), such as infectious salmon anemia (ISA);
  8. The untreated blood of slaughtered salmon, called “blood water”;
  9. Parasites;
  10. Toxic chemicals used to kill parasites;
  11. Discarded equipment and refuse;
  12. The farm-bred salmon themselves, which have escaped in large numbers.

http://www.ecojustice.ca/files/prv-hsmi-summary-of-facts-may-2013/at_download/file
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRR7WbggWfY
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/05/prweb126118.htm

"Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the ‘body of fact' that exists in the mind of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy” memo by tobacco company Brown and Williamson,
 
Maybe you could explain how this table shows you don't impact wild stocks.....
http://www.pac.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/aquacu...ocs/incidental-accidentel/2012-Q2-T2-eng.html

Here I'll give you a hint...... INCIDENTAL CATCH April - June 2012
AQFF 227Mainstream CanadaDixon24HerringClupea pallasii2.5 metric tonnes*

*The incidental catch of herring at this facility occurred during a planned depopulation to control the spread of Infectious Haematopoietic Necrosis virus (IHNv).

Can you tell us what was done with the herring bycatch?

According to the link there is an incidental catch of another 5,274 herring "reported" at that and other sites during the period. At a conservative 200 grams/fish, that's an additional 1,055 kilograms.
 
and you post that Dave after all the conversation over ISA in Cultus Lake stocks Dave http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...fish-farm-rejected-risk-to-wild-salmon/page41
http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum...-fish-farm-rejected-risk-to-wild-salmon/page4
- where YOU were delinquent in your duties - and you smugly post that it is somehow OUR duty to prove you wrong? WOW DAVE!! VERY UNPROFESSIONAL!!

Wonder what Dan Selbie would have to say about your posting?
You have done your homework! Why not ask him ...
 
You have done your homework! Why not ask him ...
I always do my homework Dave. How's retirement keeping you? More free time to post on the Sportfishingbc forum and fish the Vedder?

I suspect Dan might disagree as he already knows there is impacts from the open net-pen industry: http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdfplus/10.1139/f04-099

Would that be one of those examples of impacts you requested: this one from your boss's earlier work?

yet one of his past employees is posting on here that nobody can prove any impacts? Hmmm...

It's interesting that he posts: "In conclusion, knowledge of the environmental impacts of cage aquaculture is critical to the protection and management of aquatic resources" - yet one of his former employees defends secrecy and lack of scientific follow-up and lack of professionalism. Hmmm....

Yep - methinks he might disagree...
 
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Sorry Agent, go back sleuthing ...Dan was never my boss but I certainly respect the man and his science. Your italicized quote means jack squat in the context posted but a fair enough try; surely you must have better things to do than delve into my past, lol!
How about that question we keep asking, and asking ... show us documented data showing wild salmon in BC are impacted negatively by salmon farms.

Cue for someone to suggest I **** off.
 
AND just when you thought this thread was getting stale - eh, Gunsmith?
 
Guess you were retired before Dan took-over, Dave...
 
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Better get the popcorn! It has been interesting, I don't know enough about the subject to weigh in, but I am learning. :)
 
Better get the popcorn! It has been interesting, I don't know enough about the subject to weigh in, but I am learning. :)

I'm learning too how much the industry is just like the tobacco industry and others like it. The more CK posts the worse he looks IMHO and hopefully others.

The only reason members like himself are on a forum like this in the last couple of years is because they are nervous about something.
 
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