Injured seal on Beach

Dr. Martin Haulena, head veterinarian at the aquarium, says he fears conflicts between people and seals could increase because of suggestions that seals and sea lions are damaging salmon stocks, which are not supported by scientific evidence.

Do a little homework on this fellow, you might (or not) be surprised to see some of those he gets involved with.
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And I have some rather sad news for him. The science is indeed in, and 100% counter to the drivel he posts up in this article.
A blatant Peta-style tug on the ol' heartstrings in an attempt to generate more funding. Sad.

Too bad the shooter wasn't using double odd buck.
Regardless, the effort, time and money being wasted on this particular animal is just that: wasted.
They are well over populated.
Saving this one is a Fool's Errand.
Period.

Cheers,
Nog
 
Scientists warn of ecosystem consequences for proposed B.C. seal hunt

https://www.saobserver.net/news/sci...stem-consequences-for-proposed-b-c-seal-hunt/

"Fisheries and Oceans Canada says it has received a proposal from the society to commercially hunt pinnipeds but the application is in its early stages.

Spokeswoman Lara Sloan said the department evaluates applications for new fisheries using an ecosystem-based approach, noting pinnipeds are an important food source for transient killer whales.

“The broader ecosystem is always a consideration and what impact something like this is going to have on it,” she added."
 
I received a phone call about ten years back. It was my partner in a floathouse. He said his parents had a baby seal at the cabin and didn't know what to do with it. It was apparently abandoned by its parent and was found suckling to the black Merc kicker on their skiff. After transporting it to the shore the lonely pup just jumped back into the water and followed the engine back to the cabin. I told him to hurry and get it into the freezer because it would make excellent crab bait! His parents went with my second option of taking it to Bamfield marine biology center where those guys had it flown to Van aquarium. He got named "Salty" I was told. There would have been lots of crabs in that trap!
 
Funny how some peoples idea of science and scientists idea of science are always different 100%. Scientists are actually studying pinns where as fisherman study them for a couple minutes when they lose a fish to them or cant catch anything and need something to blame. the reason people constantly claim to see more of them is because they aren't catching anything. No one notices anything when fishing is good but start getting antsy when the fuel bill hasn't got the benefit of any fish. As sports fishermen we should be more concerned of the predator that predates on our preys prey who are the same proponents of this cull and balance garbage. Killing herring stocks has impacted salmon runs more than pinns ever will so why should we support the same people killing the herring. Nature creates balance if there were an unbalanced number of pinns they would be starving because salmon stocks are declining the garbage numbers are all hype no real data. There is only one animal on earth that's numbers increase amidst declining resources and unfortunately we have to share ours with more and more people with no respect for life.
 
steeler said:
Funny how some peoples idea of science and scientists idea of science are always different 100%. Scientists are actually studying pinns where as fisherman study them for a couple minutes when they lose a fish to them or cant catch anything and need something to blame. the reason people constantly claim to see more of them is because they aren't catching anything. No one notices anything when fishing is good but start getting antsy when the fuel bill hasn't got the benefit of any fish. As sports fishermen we should be more concerned of the predator that predates on our preys prey who are the same proponents of this cull and balance garbage. Killing herring stocks has impacted salmon runs more than pinns ever will so why should we support the same people killing the herring. Nature creates balance if there were an unbalanced number of pinns they would be starving because salmon stocks are declining the garbage numbers are all hype no real data. There is only one animal on earth that's numbers increase amidst declining resources and unfortunately we have to share ours with more and more people with no respect for life.
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You are aware that the science indicates the seal and sea lion population has exploded above historical levels in our waters?
I would agree with your point on Herring but disagree when you say "we support the same people killing the herring.
Those of us who feel a seal and sea lion cull do not support the overfishing of herring.
 
I am aware that the science shows the numbers growing from when they were nearly wiped out because of culls and harvesting. There is no accurate baseline for historical numbers. I am also aware that the idea of a cull and the and the people bringing it forward are commercial fisherman and they have gotten support based on numbers that aren't scientific and a bunch of hype. The same people who constantly bash science like to then turn around and say the "science" is in. Try reading some articles from the other side before blindly believing that sea lions and seals are wiping out the salmon. There is lots of reading on past attempts at culling and little to no difference in salmon survival. How many of them could first nations have killed historically from canoes with spears? How can the claim be made that there numbers are higher than in the 1800's when records couldn't possibly have been accurate . The more we blame something natural the less attention is put on the real causes of salmon decline which is habitat loss, food supply loss, over fishing and climate change. If we start with one of those issues we will be more likely to help salmon numbers grow and not drag our heels on the real issues. We are also going to find that the public will lose support for sportfishing when we look like a bunch of idiots blaming an animal for the mess humans made, killing them while not wanting to change our own take. Salmon would benefit much more from having food and a place to grow up then from having a natural predator removed but that would mean we would have to make changes and humans always find it easier to kill something and blame it then change ourselves.
 
It’s obvious there is passion on both sides. It’s to be expected and should be welcomed. The underlying fact however is that we as people have for the most part, put ourselves and the salmon in this position. Obviously we need to correct past mistakes as much as we can and continue enhancing in areas that become viable. This all takes time. I believe we are quickly running out of time. A targeted harvest of pins in areas we know that are heavily populated is some thing that can be done immediately. This can only help in the short term for salmon stocks and will not affect the population of pinns to any great extent at all. No. It will not fix or cure anything but it gives us some breathing room to maybe try to get it right for a change
 
steeler said:
I am aware that the science shows the numbers growing from when they were nearly wiped out because of culls and harvesting. There is no accurate baseline for historical numbers. I am also aware that the idea of a cull and the and the people bringing it forward are commercial fisherman and they have gotten support based on numbers that aren't scientific and a bunch of hype. The same people who constantly bash science like to then turn around and say the "science" is in. Try reading some articles from the other side before blindly believing that sea lions and seals are wiping out the salmon..
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As a new member you are kind of swimming upstream here wanting all the science to be considered! Most people on this forum will tell you seal numbers have exploded recently, when the actual counts indicate the numbers have been pretty steady 15 years or more, probably due to predation by transient whales. Many studies have indicated smolts are a relatively small proportion of seal diets, particularly if they do not reside in estuary areas. That being said a small percentage over many animals is still significant numbers of smolts, and I believe there are certain circumstances and areas where problem seals have out-sized impacts, particularly if they are taking adult spawners, and removing those animals may help. The most serious of those situations is not in BC, but is the Bonneville Dam, where a man made barrier has allowed Sea Lions swimming 40 miles upriver to devastate runs, and they have instituted a removal program there which I believe is justified.

It doesn't take much to out figure out the Pinniped balance society was started by herring fisherman participating in a fishery likely at least as damaging to salmon as seal predation, and making their fishery easier/more profitable is a significant goal. They state a goal of 50% reduction with no science to support such a goal, and with no consideration of the effects on transient killer whales.
 
california said:
It doesn't take much to out figure out the Pinniped balance society was started by herring fisherman participating in a fishery likely at least as damaging to salmon as seal predation, and making their fishery easier/more profitable is a significant goal. They state a goal of 50% reduction with no science to support such a goal, and with no consideration of the effects on transient killer whales.
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Couldn't be much more off the mark if you tried.
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But then again I guess you were - trying that is.

One single board member has any association with the herring fishery.
The President is a Chief from Haida Gwaii.
The majority of the other Directors are from various First Nations and other Indigenous Groups up and down BC's coast - none of which are involved in the fishery you noted whatsoever.
So, your assumption regarding why and who initiated the Society is about as accurate as your misguided assessment of the related science.

As far as the science goes, the proposal has the direct backing of renowned Dr. Carl Walters and the head of Sciences at DFO Nanaimo. Those two were instrumental in the development of the related IFMP which is presently before DFO at this point. Interestingly, DFO has no questions regarding the science at this point. There are actually reams of studies which draw the same conclusion, and that is largely what the proposal is based upon.

However, it would seem that you and a few other armchair quarterbacks apparently know much better than the most senior scientific minds this coast has to offer.
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Nog
 
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Another excellent post California. You mention Bonneville Dam as a barrier and pinniped attractant ... Lewis and Clark in the early 1800's document the same attractant for seals and sea lions at Coulio Falls (sp), long before the Columbia was dammed. The same learned behaviour then as now - barriers impede salmon migration, which attract predators.

Nog, it seems we have conflicting views from acadamia on this issue.
 
Dave said:
... Nog, it seems we have conflicting views from acadamia on this issue.
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I tend to ignore the babblings of the Aquarium "scientists".
They have a vested interest in tugging heart-strings and are little more than zoo keepers in terms of the real academic world.

There are a few conflicting views, chiefly supported by Andrew Trites (who oddly enough is onside with most of the findings). He, and two others who jump into the media fray at every opportunity, do indeed speak with eloquence and vigor against the proposed harvest. Oddly though, when push comes to shove, they offer no peer reviewed products to back their claims - no science beyond their own postulations to support what they say.

On the other side of the coin, you have some rather widely and well known senior scientists who have jointly concluded there is a problem. And who strongly suggest the way to confirm their findings is to proceed with a limited, science driven & monitored harvest. Will that translate to a 50% reduction? No-one knows, or is suggesting such at this point. Alternatively what is being proposed is a step by step harvest with very close monitoring of the results that produces before proceeding to the next level (if at all).

So, while there may be some controversy among some of the academia, methinks I will lean towards those with the backing of multiple peer reviewed papers and decades of directly related experience to back that up...

Cheers,
Nog
 
One of the aquarium spokesmen is Dr. Peter Ross. He is an ex DFO scientist who is considered a world expert on the toxicology of seals and sea lions. He knows the animals well and would most likely be involved in the process of deciding if these animals are safe to eat, if it ever comes to that.
 
I am aware of who Dr. Ross is, and his past & present associations.
However, no, he is not involved in the ongoing toxicology efforts.

Cheers,
Nog
 
Problem is that we fisherman don’t need to give Dr Ross a platform to spew his BS. If we want any kind of support from the general public we can’t have injured seals showing up on hippy beaches in Vancouver.
 
6C21DCBF-A23A-4DD7-B4A6-AE46F0AE619E.jpeg This is taken from the 2019 Herring fishery. It got me thinking that if they were going to go forward with the cull this wouldn’t be a bad way to round them up.
 
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