Hoochie/Cuttle/Squid advice

[RogersonCrusoe]

Heyo,

This is my second full year of salmon fishing, but I'm having trouble being consistent when fishing plastics. I'm improving my anchovy roll and spoon tactics, but plastics still baffle me and often go untouched during the day's fishing.

I have a selection of colours in Hoochie, Cuttlefish and full Squid - highlights include White UV cuttlefish and squid, Green splatterback glow squid, Blue Glow and Army Truck Glow hoochie. Leader length vary between 20-30 inches and have decent action, though I think I can improve that too. I've also played around with UV Jugheads to get a wiggle out of them. Same results.

I'm starting to think that I'm fishing the wrong type of plastic in the area (using squid when i should use hoochie etc...) - what are your thoughts/experience as to what works best where? Should I just be patient?

I fish both Sooke and Sidney equally.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Captain PartyMarty]

I have the same issue. I always try but have yet to catch a fish in 4 years of fishing with a rubber. Must be some vodoo required.

 

[eaglemaniac]

Try a longer leader, 36" to 42" for starters. A shorter leader is generally for sockeye, pinks. Cant hurt. eman

 

[papalorge]

try using a heavier leader to get more of a "snap" when the flasher goes around

 

[marbledmurrelet]

I usually run 30-36" leader for hootchies/needle fish, and keep the flasher within 10' - 15' of the downrigger cable. I have never had great success with hootchies when running the flasher further than 15' behind the downrigger, always run it tight and it works very well for me... I use single siwash, 40lb leader.
I fish out of Vancouver area.

 

[Gerry Treger]

As suggested, heavier leaders (40#) and longer leaders up to 45" for Chinook. You may be going too slow? Try 2.5 to 3 knots - the fish will catch up to it. Try UV Hoochies. Without giving you a list, green colours seem to be the most successful for Chinook, from Chartreuse to dark greens and in between. Commercial guys use long, heavy leaders and go fast. They tie up with single hooks set at far back of hoochie - beads, swivel, hook inside hoochie. Use decent sized hooks to keep the Pinks off.

 

[RogersonCrusoe]

As suggested, heavier leaders (40#) and longer leaders up to 45" for Chinook. You may be going too slow? Try 2.5 to 3 knots - the fish will catch up to it. Try UV Hoochies. Without giving you a list, green colours seem to be the most successful for Chinook, from Chartreuse to dark greens and in between. Commercial guys use long, heavy leaders and go fast. They tie up with single hooks set at far back of hoochie - beads, swivel, hook inside hoochie. Use decent sized hooks to keep the Pinks off.

Thanks Gerry (and others). I do use 40#, generally a far back single hook setup and have a couple rigged with two hooks. My speed could be the issue, as I think I troll a little on the slow side in general.

 

[Seafever]

I'll second what Eaglemaniac said.....longer leader 36 to 42 "

Commercial standard is 42"...that is 42" overall length....which is measuring from back edge of flasher to back end of hoochy. This includes snaps swivels and anything else.

Try going WITH the current (or across it). I like about 2.30 mph for hoochies if not much current.

When going WITH the current rely more on downrigger line angle (about 40 to 45 degrees).
The current is pushing you at a certain speed and you have to overcome that a bit to get things working normal.

I always get more hits going with the current or across.

Talk to the locals and learn what the predominant feed is in your area.

For instance, if it's needlefish then using a big fat cuttlefish hoochy may not be the best choice.

However there are no "written in stone " rules in fishing. Stranger things happen all the time..

 

[spring fever]

If you have a bit of herring or anchovy try stuffing into the cuttlefish or hoochy-surprising what that will wake up!!

 

[Fishin'Zinn]

I have had some on/off luck with hoochies. Before I slightly veer off topic, the single hook method with the beads, while good, I find ALL plastic beads have a chemical reaction with hootchie plastic! Very interesting. I hope it does not create a scent or deter fish. Nonetheless, I have experimented with so many different things, most are crap but the fish were not biting either!!! Best thing I can say - Go with what you are comfortable with. I have dynamite success with bait (well, duh right?), but when it's slow is when the little things matter... IE: Roll, presentation, etc! That's huge. I do not feel as comfortable with hootchies, but the comments above are very good advice for basic setup. Depends where you fishing and how aggressive they are. ECVI I would run a longer leader for sure, flashers seem to spook the fish if too close I think. Had one of my nicest fish one year bite a spackleback hootchie with NO flasher, when nothing else worked that day (back when I wasn't so savvy at fishing lol)... Makes you wonder sometimes.

I don't think I've used a single hootchy this year, had success with spoons (AP), and bait. However, if I ever run out of bait, definitely will bring out the LED hootchie, or white, chartreuse, or green hootchy.

 

[Seafever]

Yes...that's right.....a lot of over-the-counter beads get eaten by the chemical in the vinyl over time....
I can usually get a season out of them before they start to deform.

I don't think vinyl gives off a scent that repels salmon personally. I've tried spraying my hoochies with herring juice etc. and I've also tried having a smoke and then handling the hoochy with nicotine fingers and no spray of any kind. Made no difference....they still caught fish. I even tried running hoochies with my dried spit in them from lubing line and beads...still caught fish.

PNT over here sells beads that don't deteriorate. But they don't sell all the kinds of beads I use so I go elsewhere as well and just accept the fact that I'll have to redo them at some point.

Personally, when fishing I'll give the slight edge to hoochies most days.

Except if I'm in a bait area like Sooke for example.

 

[Trophy]

All the guys have given you great advice.....you mentioned you tried jugheads, my two cents worth of information with them is to use a longer leader (4 ft). I found the extra length gives them time for the head to kick the hoochie about more. Same heavy 40 lb leader / no swivels / faster is better. Good luck.

 

[Mako 22]

This has been my all time highliner rig on this side of the Straits since I started trolling with downriggers in 1979. OKI flasher shown but I mostly use a Hot Spot, silver mylar, with the red stripe similar to the OKI. My "Go To" rig that usually gets the job done. Standard commercial trolling setup.














60 pound leader to give good motion to the hoochie.



I carry a good assortment of other colors and sizes of hoochies on the boat if things are slow I switch.

A good collection in the shop, that drawer is 6 inches deep.




If a lot of squid around these work good: (Small turds).

I have some of the bigger 6 inch turds to try this year.

If all fails I rig up a 6 inch whole herring commercial style.


I run the ledges near Port Angeles, 160 to 240 feet deep. And I keep the downrigger ball 5 to 10 feet off the bottom. Release clip is 5 feet above the ball.

Too much current and the boat stays in the barn!

 

[Seafever]

Ah...the good ol' Glow Army Truck hoochy ( in Mako's pic). One of the alltime goto killers.

Don't leave home without one.

 

[Waterwolf2230]

If you have a bit of herring or anchovy try stuffing into the cuttlefish or hoochy-surprising what that will wake up!!

I agree, when I fish cuttlefish I like to take a 5" anchovy and filet it to a point, having your knife exit just before the tail. Stuff it inside so the tail is sticking out and releasing scent as it goes. I know there are mixed views on scent but I always add Smelly Jelly to my plastics and spoons. I personally use 42" leaders of 50lb Blue Label Flurocarbon. My number one has consistently been the North Pacific UV Army Truck which has glow eyes. I tie a double egg loop knot with a double hook setup, 5/0 for the hook that goes inside the hoochy and a 3/0 as a trailer which is exactly in line with the tentacles of the hoochy. Oh and I normally brine my anchovies in a little ProCure Complete - green. On another note, if you are fishing deeper than about 100' I'd strongly consider using a flasher that has glow/uv qualities. Gibbs Moon Jelly or O'Ki Kinetic tape are great UV attractant and we've had great luck on both.

Hope that helps

 

[Waterwolf2230]

Further to my last, this is the video that I got the idea from. I can attest to the success of the technique when the bite is off...

 

[Fishin'Zinn]

Another thing I considered before as well... Do plastic beads, or a bead-chain inside the hootchy (to set the hook back a little further) impede the action due to extra weight? Mako 22 I like the simplicity of that setup, I just hate when the fish are short-biters though (prefer the single hook near the tail of the lure still). That probably gets more 'whip' action than one filled with beads then a hook further back... Maybe I'm just overthinking it now eh.

 

[ericl]

OK RC as you can see there are a lot of ways to do hoochies. My method is very similar to Mako's - single 5/0 Mustad 95170-ss hook crimped onto a barrel swivel tied to 50-60# stiff mono. The yama line shown by mako is not the stiffest but the Seaguar fluorocarbon is stiff. After the barrel swivel I use a twinkle skirt, then slide-on the hoochie. Use beads as needed to make sure that the joint between the hook & swivel is in line with where the hoochie body changes from solid to tassels.
I use a leader length 4x the flasher blade length.
There are several body shapes/styles of hoochies. For Golden Bait brand, NG is for needlefish, OG is the octopus. The OG's are used to imitate small fish other than needlefish. NG's are for imitating needlefish. There are plankton & squid imitations as well. In your area fishing chinook/coho, the NG & OG will be best. If you catch a Salmon with scrape marks on it't head, it has been digging needlefish out of the sand/gravel bottom, & a NG in color 142 would be a good choice. Color 142 is my favorite.

That said I hate using in-line flashers so never fish hoochie's anymore. The guides like them because the produce great catch numbers which results in good tips & repeat business.
Biggest mistake with Salmon trolling chinook/coho is going too slow.

I'd just use a spoon & a dummy flasher.

 

[RogersonCrusoe]

You guys are seriously the best. Thanks for all your advice and pointers. My notebook and shopping list is getting bigger with each new post.

 

[TheBigGuy]

The hoochies listed above are all great. An army truck glow is probably your best bet to try first.
You can't go wrong with a full size or needlefish glow green splatter back. After that I'd recommend the full or needlefish full glow hoochies. Then the white shades, white purple haze is a killer.

One thing no one has mentioned and I think no list is complete without it, mini plankton hoochies. They are not just for sockeye. They catch every species, including lots of big springs as well. Rig them on a 42 inch leader as you would with the other hoochies for springs. Come July, Aug, Sept they are one of the most productive hoochies. MP15, bubble gum pink is probably the most widely used. But I have done really well on red, gold, orange, and chartreuse, and army truck minis as well. Early morning and late at night is a great time to use those shades. They work better above 65ft, but I've had great catches on them down to 150 ft.

Too many hoochies to list. But the above ones will get you started for sure. Another thing I might mention is keep rotating size and colours of hoochies in the water till you find a pattern they are liking. If you want to just chuck a line out and drag it all day hoochies are probably not for you. Commercial trollers do extremely well using hoochies, but that is because they can test many different colours at once to find what's the hot colour that day. As a sports fisherman you've got to work to find the right combination.

Good luck to you.