Halibut Quota Taboo Subject on SFBC?

[SpringVelocity]

Stop leaving hundreds of thousands of pounds in the water is a start fogged in. If it was our plan all along to take ultra ultra conservative approach should of tried to allow carry over. Wouldnt have a size limit with all the carry over. Think this years quota issues along with the past is a separate thread however

Your not going to get a chance for clients to get big halibut with no size limit serengeti. I know that's why you are stearing the tread so your business can take large fish. It can't happen with current allocation you have to realize that. We will run out mid summer and forces everyone else not in your area to shut down. It's been talked about over and over. I think maybe a tweek is necessary though to second fish rule if we are leaving pounds in water. The allocation pecentages suck and need to be adjusted but that has to be fought in Ottawa.

 

[terrin]

You make some interesting points Ukee. But I have to ask, have you stepped forward to work on behalf of the salt rec sector?

Perhaps if they move to the internet and social media age he or others could come forward. I agree with an earlier suggestion to publicly post stats on all fisheries for public consumption.

 

[vic-tory]

Think you're misreading. In no way do I think we will have no size limit. But sure as hell could have way better limits than we do now with current allocation.

 

[bigdogeh]

Your not going to get a chance for clients to get big halibut with no size limit serengeti. I know that's why you are stearing the tread so your business can take large fish. It can't happen with current allocation you have to realize that. We will run out mid summer and forces everyone else not in your area to shut down. It's been talked about over and over. I think maybe a tweek is necessary though to second fish rule if we are leaving pounds in water. The allocation pecentages suck and need to be adjusted but that has to be fought in Ottawa.

actually I think you're mistaken. you can always buy halibut quota. alot of lodges are doing it and some guides are as well. It's BS but it's happening. I've talked to guys from my work that have taken advantage of it. privatization of a resource to the one with a large pocketbook. We give up allocation or are fine with less allocation, and the commercial guys sell it to us. sell us something that should already be ours.

 

[SpringVelocity]

actually I think you're mistaken. you can always buy halibut quota. alot of lodges are doing it and some guides are as well. It's BS but it's happening. I've talked to guys from my work that have taken advantage of it. privatization of a resource to the one with a large pocketbook. We give up allocation or are fine with less allocation, and the commercial guys sell it to us. sell us something that should already be ours.

That's awful it's that's true. I thought no one was doing that.

 

[bigdogeh]

That's awful it's that's true. I thought no one was doing that.

It's definitely being done. a buddy from my work was bragging how they took 3 over 150 off haida gwaii this spring. guide sold them the halibut quota. wasn't too impressed and told him the reasons why but he just shrugged it off. The people buying quota are the ones that fly into a 5 star luxury lodge, have their catch flash frozen and packaged, and fly out. you're not going to see them at the public docks and marinas. DFO, the government, and the commercial guys have us just where they want us... bent over...
next, we'll be buying salmon quota. that way they can sell more farmed salmon when it becomes too expensive to fish wild salmon..

 

[Clint r]

I'm not interested in buying any but is quota available to anybody? Or just guides/businesses?

 

[profisher]

Anyone can buy quota but the number of pounds actually paid for each year is very small. Most rec anglers understand the consequences of doing so.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Think you're misreading. In no way do I think we will have no size limit. But sure as hell could have way better limits than we do now with current allocation.

It will need to be tweaked in future if we end up way more this year. But the question would be does it make sense to adjust second fish to something more realistic.

 

[Jencourt]

[QUOTE="

Perhaps someone that was on the Halibut WG calls could post better info then I have.[/QUOTE].

Ya why not post spread sheets so people
Can get a clearer picture. Is there a reason this is not done?

 

[Jencourt]

Those of you on the water all summer, would you say you had less Hallibut days this August due to weather than last year?

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Not sure if weather related or strategic to drive prices high with lower supply but … commercial harvest in BC is way down this year as of the most recent Halibut Landing Reports to the IPHC:

"The catch from British Columbian (Area 2B) waters represents 63% of the 2016 commercial fishery catch limit. For comparison, 4.5 million pounds, or 76% of the 2015 catch limit, had been landed from Area 2B by this same date in 2015. Also, during the first 156 days of the 2015 IVQ fishery, 4.4 million pounds, or 74% of the catch limit, had been landed."

http://www.iphc.int/news-releases/468-nr20160823.html

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[vic-tory]

This was made mid Sept and data is of Sept 1st.

As for days halibut fishing slightly less but weather rest of summer was very good so like any summer it averages out for the most part. Shouldn't come into play as change of bad weather (and leaving even MORE in water) is same as chance of good weather

Saw that...commies will have to hustle rest of season. They always catch it all though...good strategy.

Still think needs own thread

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Also of interest is the fact that the commercial sector is allowed to carry over up to 10% of uncaught quota to the following year, though overages above quota are subtracted from the next year's quota. Curious if anyone knows if this is on the table for the rec sector? Given the 85/15 split of overall quota, you'd think same principles would apply. Perhaps the SFAB feel it's too risky? With the trend of being under it sure would be nice to carry over all or part of the 600-650,000 cumulative pounds we've been under over the past 4-years. I think some of us may be more supportive of a conservative approach if we knew the quota wasn't lost but instead carried forward.

Cheers!

Ukee

 

[Cuba Libre]

Hi CL, if you are referring to stepping fwd via the SFAB/C, the answer is no. I have participated via that route in the past but, like many, got frustrated with the lack of open info sharing, lack of advertising of meetings, meetings held mid-week and mid-day, the lack of interest of the local SFAC to engage in coast wide issues - as though anglers don't travel to take advantage of our amazing fisheries resource and, from my personal experience, the old boys fish and game club mentality. Here in the Interior of BC I don't think the SFAC has had more than 8 participants in many years so that route just isn't representative of the rec community.

Outside of that route I am an active letter writer to the various Fisheries Ministers we've had over the last few years with a particular focus on advocating for modernizing the rec sector engagement as well as on one off issues, such as the grossly mismanaged Fraser River salmon fishery this summer. I also keep myself well informed about the issues and fisheries I'm passionate about.

How about you?

Cheers!

Ukee

Well that is a start... and thanks for doing that much. But I think that writing individual letters is not anywhere near enough to generate change. As someone who was inside DFO for 29 years, I can tell you that a few letters are nothing more than a nuisance to the bureaucrats in Ottawa . If you are serious in generating change , there has to be MAJOR numbers of folks DEMANDING chance, as individual such as you are doing-- and most importantly as a unified voice. There is only ONE unified voice that DFO recognizes for the west coast, and that is the SFAB. This is not to demean the South Island guys who are an important regional voice, but Ottawa quite frankly could care less about our regional issues. It took a major coordinated push from all sectors of the rec fishery to get a small increase in our hali quota. Right now the various parts of the SFAB are fighting to increase or maintain our profile and access to crabs, prawns, groundfish, tuna herring , clams etc. The small number of dedicated volunteers spend hundreds of hour fighting on OUR behalf with a bunch overloaded DFO biologists, and a commercial industry that would just like to see us disappear , and FNs that insist the resource is all theirs, deserve more support from from anglers like us.
The SFAB needs our support.... if you and the others that feel its broken, then help to fix it-- Get involved. There is too much to loose if we dont.

 

[trophywife]

actually I think you're mistaken. you can always buy halibut quota. alot of lodges are doing it and some guides are as well. It's BS but it's happening. I've talked to guys from my work that have taken advantage of it. privatization of a resource to the one with a large pocketbook. We give up allocation or are fine with less allocation, and the commercial guys sell it to us. sell us something that should already be ours.

we all should get "personal quota" as Canadians. we take it in six fish or one.
2 fish per trip.

 

[Jencourt]

Only

This was made mid Sept and data is of Sept 1st.

As for days halibut fishing slightly less but weather rest of summer was very good so like any summer it averages out for the most part. Shouldn't come into play as change of bad weather (and leaving even MORE in water) is same as chance of good weather

Saw that...commies will have to hustle rest of season. They always catch it all though...good strategy.

So looking at that spread sheet you posted , if we start at June (wen # of boats on the water starts bumping up) 2016 catch is up 40K from 2014 and 24.5k from 2015 for the month.
July we are up 38k from 2014 and up 16k from 2015. wen we get to Aug we are down 48k from 2014 and down 52k from 2015. Feb through may had some ups and some downs, but catch is so small in those months I leave it out for the purpose of this . June and July being up from previous two years then a sharp drop in Aug of 2016 ( about17-18% from 2015 same month) I was just wondering if weather played a key factor in this? If we are looking at an underage of about 10% as some of you have stated,and if Aug had followed the trend of June and july and actually realized a slight increase rather than a 52k drop we would be looking at under 5%. That is a pretty good effort on the part of the SFAB if you ask me.

Don't get me wrong I have had and still have my opinion on the slot and how I think we could tweak things to provide a different looking season for all to enjoy. That said using the data provided (which is the same data those doing the work have to look at) I am not so sure that much of any kind of season long changes could have been made. That is why I have in the past concentrated on shoulder /low impact months wen suggesting new ideas.

My above statements are based on current data and modeling, as this is what they have to use for now. Right or wrong like it or not. I think it prudent wen making a case for higher size limits ,as some have done, we do so based on the same tools our guys have to work with wen trying to shape a season before it happens. That is why I feel the updated in season catch data should get posted so all of us that form opinions do so with accurate or at least relative information

Ukee I know you have made points regarding the second fish and the accuracy of the model being used. Maybe allowing a bump up to the second fish could have been absorbed if true. I am in no way near the stats man you are so I will not debate your points. For all I know you are correct. None the less, for now we use what we have and we voice our concerns and suggestions based on just that. If it is shown that changes to it are needed and those changes are made to improve accuracy then good for all of us .

I have said it before and will again. I think conversations like these are useful and can be productive if in no other way than to insight curiosity and interest in the complex and challenging task of managing our fishery while trying to maintain or even better our access .

 

[vic-tory]

Weather has just as good of a chance to be worse next year as better...so you can't play what if in that respect as what if it is worse and we keep 170,000 lbs in water instead of the 100+ we are this year?? It's an equal chance play so why would you only take into account one of the two scenarios?

Jen, 177k left as of sept 1. Using 5 year average for rest of season which varies very little looking at 40k or so used rest of season so 137,000 lbs left over ....

 

[Jencourt]

Weather has just as good of a chance to be worse next year as better...so you can't play what if in that respect as what if it is worse and we keep 170,000 lbs in water instead of the 100+ we are this year?? It's an equal chance play so why would you only take into account one of the two scenarios?

I understand what your saying . That is why rather than state it as a reason for the drop I asked the question. That said it is my understanding that things like weather and other things that can not be controlled are factored into the bio-factor or risk assessment portion of the model . I could have that wrong but think it is so. If true then should they lower that % or decrease risk factor to allow for more size season long? If before the season started the model put them in the ball park of where we are now ,then an increase in size would have to come from somewhere. I know the 100k underage right. I get where you come from . roughly 10% is there despite everything else. After 4 years of underage it would seem to most like there is some room to tweak things a bit more. If ,where and how is something that will be sorted for next year. this year is a wrap . For the record I am not sure where the 100+k comes from. I thought I had it at less and closer to 8%???? Again could be wrong?

 

[UkeeDreamin]

Well that is a start... and thanks for doing that much. But I think that writing individual letters is not anywhere near enough to generate change. As someone who was inside DFO for 29 years, I can tell you that a few letters are nothing more than a nuisance to the bureaucrats in Ottawa . If you are serious in generating change , there has to be MAJOR numbers of folks DEMANDING chance, as individual such as you are doing-- and most importantly as a unified voice. There is only ONE unified voice that DFO recognizes for the west coast, and that is the SFAB. This is not to demean the South Island guys who are an important regional voice, but Ottawa quite frankly could care less about our regional issues. It took a major coordinated push from all sectors of the rec fishery to get a small increase in our hali quota. Right now the various parts of the SFAB are fighting to increase or maintain our profile and access to crabs, prawns, groundfish, tuna herring , clams etc. The small number of dedicated volunteers spend hundreds of hour fighting on OUR behalf with a bunch overloaded DFO biologists, and a commercial industry that would just like to see us disappear , and FNs that insist the resource is all theirs, deserve more support from from anglers like us.
The SFAB needs our support.... if you and the others that feel its broken, then help to fix it-- Get involved. There is too much to loose if we dont.

I completely respect where you are coming from CL but I think you know as well as I do that there is no comparison between the level of attention and response the FN and Commercial sectors get from DFO in the Pacific Region compared to the SFAB on behalf of the rec sector. As many have pointed out that has much to do with the level of organization and funding those other two groups have and the reality is that when an organization has participation from less than 1% of the group it represents, it won't be able to generate the dollars or the political voice the sector should have. Perhaps there are some significant initiatives underway within the SFAB/C organization to address this reality but even a doubling or tripling of interest and participation through the current system would barely crack 1% of the sector being able to receive sport fish information and voice their opinions.

As such, I have to ask how does it make sense to keep doing the same thing but expecting a different result? And I'm not referring to the small battles and efforts of the volunteers, I'm talking on the grand scale of harnessing the voice, political influence and economic power of a very large and diverse group that is the sport fishery?

Look at the diverse group who are participating in this conversation via the Sport Fish BC Forum. No way this large or diverse of a group from different locations, backgrounds and fisheries experience would engage in these kinds of conversations via local SFAC meetings. Do you really think it'll be much longer for the Trudeau government to switch to a system like WDFW and ODFW? We already have online licensing and IREC surveys are now being implemented. Now that DFO has all licensed anglers e-mail contact info, not much of a hurdle for them to use that data base to communicate about fisheries planning, conduct input surveys or direct folks to online polls. If I were a staunch supporter of the SFAB I know I'd be wanting to get out in front of this or risk becoming irrelevant in very short order.

More thoughts to ponder. Like Jencourt stated very useful conversations.

BTW Jencourt - like the weather itself things tend to moderate over a full season. We had an amazing spring warm, calm beautiful weather, had us thinking severe drought in many areas with water restrictions and stream closure before the summer really began. Then mid july through Aug was kinda crappy to even things out. Years when there is low snow pack we often get wet springs or early summer, etc. Are there some years with extremes at either end? Once in a while but most years the good and the bad both come so from May through Sep most years there is a mix of good and bad fishing weather and rarely are there years that would really skew the effort high or low. Regarding the amounts left over this year, just projections based on recent trends: With 177k left as of Sep 1, would be highly unlikely that more than 75k would be harvested over remainder of season. Speaking of weather, the way it has been in Sep and Oct, may not even get close to 75k but, looking at monthly avg harvest it's likely to be in the 100k lb range left this season.

Cheers!

Ukee