Halibut for 2012........ready for less?
- Thread starter rln
- Start date
fish4all
Well-Known Member
Fish4all what sector has the most benefit from the Canadian TAC?
It's simple math GLG... there is only so much fish in the ocean. If you want every retiring Canadian to move to the west coast buy a boat and sportsfish then I would imagine the restrictions will continue.
As to who benefits the most from the canadian tac.... thats easy.. those that get/or got it for free and have built/or are buildiing a business around it... I guess that would include every lodge or guiding outfit that catches halibut(as far as I know they pay no direct fees) and the few retired halibut fisherman that paid for there share with blood and sweat.
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SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
Vast majority of those who book through lodges and charters are Canadians...and they are the ones who the halibut belong to...that last post is therefore invalid.
searun
Well-Known Member
I do agree with FISH 4 ALL on his point made earlier that both sectors need to work together to ensure our overall TAC is fairly calculated. Once that is complete, then we need to iron out split in allocation to ensure we have a fair and equitable split. Then, from the sport fishing perspective we need to establish some best practices around who gets to fish where, and establish a way to protect the really large (old) spawning age females.
SerengetiGuide
Well-Known Member
What does that even mean?
GLG
Well-Known Member
Well not so, it's a little more than that. Here is some info from there website.
I would argue that you have a fail on the third point.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Here is a link to a PDF that outlines what principles mean.
http://www.msc.org/documents/scheme...onmental_standard_for_sustainable_fishing.pdf
I will post up more points to my argument and will see if fish4all has some answers.
GLG
http://www.msc.org/documents/scheme...onmental_standard_for_sustainable_fishing.pdf
I will post up more points to my argument and will see if fish4all has some answers.
GLG
The old time commercial guys may have earned their catches with blood, sweat and tears, but that shouldn't translate into a never ever plan of owning the resource. I feel sorry for any young person who wants to follow in their footsteps. A big fricken road bloack when you can only buy a boat but have to suck up to the (should retired completely) quota owners and lease to go fish. At the very least under the present system once you retire (stop fishing) you should have to sell your quota to the next guy wanting to follow in your footsteps.
fish4all
Well-Known Member
I fully agree that something should be implemented to get the fish back in the hands of the working. At the very least any quota that is bought today should have to be fished by the buyer and not leased.
scott craven
Well-Known Member
I find it totally unfair and unacceptable that the rec.sector get's only 12% of the TAC.
I have nothing against the hard working commie boat trying to make a living, but the division
of TAC needs to be fair to all sectors.
The fish are the property of all Canadians, not just a few lucky individuals who happened
to benefit from some political poor judgement.
I have nothing against the hard working commie boat trying to make a living, but the division
of TAC needs to be fair to all sectors.
The fish are the property of all Canadians, not just a few lucky individuals who happened
to benefit from some political poor judgement.
GLG
Well-Known Member
MSC Principle 3
The fishery is subject to an effective management system that respects local, national and international laws and standards and incorporates institutional and operational frameworks that require use of the resource to be responsible and sustainable.
FAIL
Fact: Pacific fish resources are a common property resource managed by the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans
What does this mean? Halibut is the property of the citizens of Canada not the government. And it sure the heck doesn’t belong Commercial Sector. The government is tasked to manage this resource. They have no right to transfer (sell or give away) this property to the commercial sector. Score one to FAIL
So here is another example of the government’s FAIL management.
In 2003 the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Canada announced an allocation framework for the commercial and recreational sectors for the Pacific halibut fishery. The framework outlines that a 12 percent recreational catch “ceiling” for the recreational sector. In addition, DFO is working with the recreational and commercial sectors to develop an acceptable market-based mechanism that will allow for possible short-term and long-term adjustment of the recreational share through the acquisition of additional quota from the commercial sector.
So after 9 years how has this been working out the owners of this resource? What was the last hare brain idea? Oh yea lets get the owners (Recreational Sector) of this resource to lease quota from the commercial sector at $5 a pound. How did this program turn out for your sector? Did you get many Canadians with that website you setup to lease quota? Score that at FAIL
My season started late and ended early with daily and possession limits reduced. Yet the Canadian TAC is so large that we export over 70% of our total Canadian TAC to foreign commercial markets. I’m told to get off the water and you guys keep fishing and sending my fish out of the country to be served up in some fancy restaurant in another country. Where did the money go that this surplus of fish created? Lined the commercial sectors pockets I’m sure. How is that for a well-managed public resource? IMHO that’s a FAIL for sure.
There have been ideas submitted to have the Recreational Sector just say to heck with it lets just buy them out with a stamp on our license. But I have been informed that you can’t do that because it would be illegal to purchase something that you already own.
So what is the way forward? Simple, change the allocation from 88% - 12% to 75% - 25%, that should ensure that all Canadians have a fair access to their resource. What would happen if we out grew this allocation by more Canadians fishing for Halibut? Simple, change the allocation again. There, problem solved.
GLG
The fishery is subject to an effective management system that respects local, national and international laws and standards and incorporates institutional and operational frameworks that require use of the resource to be responsible and sustainable.
FAIL
Fact: Pacific fish resources are a common property resource managed by the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans
What does this mean? Halibut is the property of the citizens of Canada not the government. And it sure the heck doesn’t belong Commercial Sector. The government is tasked to manage this resource. They have no right to transfer (sell or give away) this property to the commercial sector. Score one to FAIL
So here is another example of the government’s FAIL management.
In 2003 the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans Canada announced an allocation framework for the commercial and recreational sectors for the Pacific halibut fishery. The framework outlines that a 12 percent recreational catch “ceiling” for the recreational sector. In addition, DFO is working with the recreational and commercial sectors to develop an acceptable market-based mechanism that will allow for possible short-term and long-term adjustment of the recreational share through the acquisition of additional quota from the commercial sector.
So after 9 years how has this been working out the owners of this resource? What was the last hare brain idea? Oh yea lets get the owners (Recreational Sector) of this resource to lease quota from the commercial sector at $5 a pound. How did this program turn out for your sector? Did you get many Canadians with that website you setup to lease quota? Score that at FAIL
My season started late and ended early with daily and possession limits reduced. Yet the Canadian TAC is so large that we export over 70% of our total Canadian TAC to foreign commercial markets. I’m told to get off the water and you guys keep fishing and sending my fish out of the country to be served up in some fancy restaurant in another country. Where did the money go that this surplus of fish created? Lined the commercial sectors pockets I’m sure. How is that for a well-managed public resource? IMHO that’s a FAIL for sure.
There have been ideas submitted to have the Recreational Sector just say to heck with it lets just buy them out with a stamp on our license. But I have been informed that you can’t do that because it would be illegal to purchase something that you already own.
So what is the way forward? Simple, change the allocation from 88% - 12% to 75% - 25%, that should ensure that all Canadians have a fair access to their resource. What would happen if we out grew this allocation by more Canadians fishing for Halibut? Simple, change the allocation again. There, problem solved.
GLG
scott craven
Well-Known Member
- "Your answer is nothing more than a bandaid. If the Tac continues to decline there still wont be enough fish to keep people like you happy. Again MSC has nothing to due with allocation decision"
I disagree, his answer at least permits the average fisherman to get out and catch a Halibut providing the TAC is approved by the IPHC.
In declining years, everyone gets less not just the sports fisherman.
Gunsmith
Well-Known Member
My reply: There is no way in hell that 88% for the commies is right. We were all born naked and equal in this country why should some get preferential shares. This kind of rot also shows up in the native reserves, the chiefs and their relatives take care of the millions and let their bretheren rot!
I didn't bring up the 88/12 on purpose, just that whatever the commercial take is or will be...if you sell the boat you must sell your quota too. Only fair for the next guy coming up behind you. Jimmy would have a **** load to get rid of right now and wouldn't be the halibut lord he is now.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Sorry it's not a bandaid, it's a solution made in Canada for Canadians. Your comment about "keep people like you happy" are you referring to the citizens of this country? If so I'm sure we will be happy with our fair share. Since the Canadian TAC is way more than what our country needs. In fact we seem to be exporting a vast amount to foreign countries.
Just checked my pie chart and notice that I had the wrong numbers. Here is the new chart with the correct numbers on it.
As you can see (yellow part) the vast bulk of the Canadian TAC is not staying in Canada it's getting shipped out.
Why is that when I am not allowed to go a catch a fish?
Again MSC speaks to management issues (fail) and that's an allocation issue. It's wrong and we both know it. Check your section 3 of the MSC.
GLG
fish4all
Well-Known Member
I can see you are stuck on this one. Again MSC is about how the fishery is executed nothing to do with how the pie is cut up or where the fish is sold.
Why cant you catch a fish.... your sector already exceeded its allocation by 250,000lbs. The same reason some commercial boats are tied up by March 30.
When i referred to "people like you" it was a cheap shot at those that cannot or will not accept change.
Why cant you catch a fish.... your sector already exceeded its allocation by 250,000lbs. The same reason some commercial boats are tied up by March 30.
When i referred to "people like you" it was a cheap shot at those that cannot or will not accept change.
scott craven
Well-Known Member
the reason our sector went over is because of our miniscule 12% allocation....
if we had a fair share of the TAC , there would be no problem.
seems to me you just don't want to lose any of your gifted 88% share.
if we had a fair share of the TAC , there would be no problem.
seems to me you just don't want to lose any of your gifted 88% share.
GLG
Well-Known Member
MSC Principle 3: Effective management
You call DFO policy effective management when it is clear that after all these years in this fight going to endless meetings and going round and round with this 12/88 split a PASS, well I call it a FAIL.
Your sector is the only one ahead in this deal, it sure is not the ordinary citizens in this country.
My pie chart illiterates a solution beyond MSC.
The government needs to look at who owns the resource.
It's not your sectors fish no matter how much you wish it was.
It belongs to the people of Canada.
Until all Canadians needs are meet not one pound of it should be shipped out of the country.
Clearly I am forced off the water because some commercial enterprise needs to sell product to foreign markets.
It does trouble me that our sector has gone over our limit but how are we going to fix that.
Yup "people like you" was a cheap shot and I'm not holding it against you as I do respect you and your position.
I myself may from time to time come out with one of those.
GLG
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