Guiding Insurance and Limitations RE: TUNA

Birdsnest

Well-Known Member
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by trophywife
60 tonne ticket and insured? i am working on this so i can tuner guide..



finally someone has said it...

It's illegal to guide on the west coast if you are further than 25 miles from any point of land, unless you have a 60 ton licence and proper insurance, plus all the normal TC stuff.

It's absolutely insane that all these guy's think this is a game and they are just gonna start running charters 40-60 miles offshore....with clients.
Tuna fishing is serious business and if something goes wrong....you had better be prepared for everything....

I get a little tired listening to some of the west coast guides/lodges telling and advertising tuna trips when they really don't have any understanding of the elements...

I'm not saying everyone...and yes...their are some real professionals out there...I'm just saying that people really need to understand what they are getting into with a fishery like this....
It looks like this thread needs to be started.

I am fairly familiar with the "elements" involved with the tuna fishing and this 25 mile limitation for svop operators has caught me off guard. Not that I am guiding tuna but I do guide occasionally and certainly interested in having the "discussion". As a commercial operator for 20 some years now I have always done my best to be 100% compliant including getting "C" numbers and the appropriate operating certification. I must say that it if frustrating to see all the guiding that takes place by individuals that do not carry proper registration or insurance. Having said that it is even more frustrating that the amount of enforcement is pretty much dismal. Another disappointment is even insurance companies selling this insurance are not aware of this restriction. So ya its been said now and I hope to see a constructive discussion. I am wondering what some of the professional guide associations/certification agencys have to say about this.

So what makes a 60 ton ticket holder more qualified to be out there?
 
"So what makes a 60 ton ticket holder more qualified to be out there?"

That is a good question.

I am just starting to research some of the courses available out there in the marine world. There are some schools around in Ladysmith and Nanaimo.

I am looking at taking some of the communication course because as some of you know I am not very proficient on the radio lol. But in all seriousness they offer quite a few other marine courses that look interesting and would be great education to have regardless of being a guide or not. I have zero desire to guide folks out for tuna. I think this thread is a great idea for those that are thinking about it.

Back to the question. I think it is a legit one because the folks that want to guide for tuna are not running the large vessels that this course covers and entails.

I look forward to reading and learning from this one.

Cheers,
John
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Pretty sure the 60 ton ticket is designed to be specific to a certain vessel, even though this isn't how it's normally used. You need sea time (30 or 60 days I forget), Chartwork 1 and Nav safety and you need to pass orals.

The orals IMO would be the one thing that would make a 60ton ticket holder more valid. They have proved to someone they know what they are doing.

Not saying I agree with it... But what other way is there to prove your qualified? You don't record sea time with an SVOP.
 
insurers will not (atleast i have not found one)insure a boat in any way if it is under 5gt for tuna fishing from what i understand. Meaning a 60gt is the next level as it should mean one is also operating a bigger boat with possibly more than 12 passengers farther than 25 nm.
 
I have been looking at getting a 60 Ton for various reasons, everything's straightforward except the signed off 480 hours on a similar sized vessel bridge. Any recommendations for that requirement?
 
insurers will not (atleast i have not found one)insure a boat in any way if it is under 5gt for tuna fishing from what i understand. Meaning a 60gt is the next level as it should mean one is also operating a bigger boat with possibly more than 12 passengers farther than 25 nm.

For guiding you mean. Ya?
 
Looking into that very question. No answers yet. SVOP is Near Coastal 1 or 25 miles. Your certificate will specify ocean operating conditions your vessel is licensed to be out in. They vary. My insurance has a trade limit out to approx 70 miles. Broker said it was ok. I have asked for clarification in writing for commercial operations. Regular personal operation isn't in question. Meantime I will not do any charters for tuna.
 
I have been looking at getting a 60 Ton for various reasons, everything's straightforward except the signed off 480 hours on a similar sized vessel bridge. Any recommendations for that requirement?

Where are you finding that requirement?
 
The Voyage class for SVOP operators is Class 2. Its difficult to put the two items together but I found it here page 36 table:http://www.tc.gc.ca/Publications/en/TP14070/PDF/HR/TP14070E.pdf
http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2007-31/page-5.html#h-15

Voyage Classes

Sheltered Waters Voyage – a voyage that is in Canada on a lake or a river above tidal waters, where a vessel can never be further than 1 nautical mile from the shore, or that is on the waters listed in Schedules 1 and 2 of the Vessel Certificates Regulations.
Near Coastal Voyage, Class 2 – a voyage, other than a Sheltered Waters Voyage, during which the vessel is always within 25 nautical miles from shore in coastal waters of Canada, the United States (except Hawaii) or Saint Pierre and Miquelon, and within 100 nautical miles from a place of refuge.
Near Coastal Voyage, Class 1 – a voyage that is not a Sheltered Waters Voyage or a Near Coastal Voyage, Class 2; that is between places in Canada, the United States (except Hawaii), Saint Pierre and Miquelon, the West Indies, Mexico, Central America or the northeast coast of South America; and during which the vessel is always north of latitude 6°<abbr title="North" style="cursor: help; ">N</abbr>, and within 200 nautical miles from shore or above the continental shelf.
Unlimited Voyage – a voyage that is not a Sheltered Waters Voyage or a Near Coastal Voyage.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Looking into that very question. No answers yet. SVOP is Near Coastal 1 or 25 miles. Your certificate will specify ocean operating conditions your vessel is licensed to be out in. They vary. My insurance has a trade limit out to approx 70 miles. Broker said it was ok. I have asked for clarification in writing for commercial operations. Regular personal operation isn't in question. Meantime I will not do any charters for tuna.

Exactly the same with me. Good post.
 
Ya I would never dream of taking paying customers out unless I knew I had proper insurance to protect them.
 
I'm not chiming in to defend any of the lodges that are advertising tuna trips because I don't know what their individual experience levels may be or what kind of insurance they carry. But just to play devils advocate here, any outfit fishing from Winter Harbour to Nootka sound could probably fish tuna and never be more than 25nm from land.

Pieces, Kwakiutl, Ououkinsh, Crowther, Kyukuot and parts of Esperanza canyons are all within 25nm of land.

So for an outfit like Rodgers Lodge (an example given earlier), fishing out of Esperanza inlet to add a guide with tuna knowledge and head out to Kyukuok canyon and chase tuna is not a huge stretch (legally anyways)




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Looking into that very question. No answers yet. SVOP is Near Coastal 1 or 25 miles.

READ YOUR POLICY - yourself! The policy will tell you exactly what is insured. The insurance company is ONLY insuring you for those listed coverage's - NOTHING MORE! IF, what you are looking for is not listed as being insured and covered, you are correct to assume it is NOT covered.

My insurance has a trade limit out to approx 70 miles.
No insurance policy should read "approx 70 miles." It should state the actual miles the insurance company is insuring (e.g. up to 70 miles offshore). IF, you are found to be over that 70 mile limit, rest assured your insurance company will NOT pay, regardless what the broker says!

Broker said it was ok. I have asked for clarification in writing for commercial operations. Regular personal operation isn't in question. Meantime I will not do any charters for tuna.

IF, the policy shows an offshore mileage limit, which ALL insurance companies do (and are also ALL different). And if, the limits are different for commercial and personal use the policy WILL state that. IF, that is not stated then the limit is the limit! Go over that limit - you have NO insurance.

FYI... In one of my previous lives I was first a commercial underwriter, who became a commercial insurance broker. I am here to tell you do NOT always believe what a broker tells you. You very are correct to get it in writing! If, the broker is wrong and does give it to you in writing the insurance company still won't pay the claim. It would then fall under HIS "errors and emissions" insurance policy. That could take years to get sorted out, paid, and can get messy!

What insurance company is insuring is clearly stated on the insurance policy! If it is not stated - it is simply NOT covered! Remember, the broker is the one you are paying and your requested information should come from the broker dealing with the insuring company. What you are requesting is clarification of coverage and possibly additional coverage. Clarification should be answered very quickly by a simple phone call. Additional coverage might take longer, depending on it even being offered by that particular insurance company and their requirements. If, something is not specifically listed or stated in the policy all you need from the "insurance company" is a rider.

IF, the broker isn't getting the answers for you fast enough, you can call the insurance company directly and just ask. They will tell you if there is coverage and if not what is required to get it. By all means you are correct in getting everything "in writing" directly from the insuring company. What the broker says (or another insurance company covers) means absolutely - NOTHING.

Another FYI... I do read my insurance policies and actually did have to get a rider extending the offshore mileage from one insurance company. I didn't call the broker, I called the insurance company underwriter directly. I found that particular insurance company had an extremely high loss ratio for offshore WCVI and didn't want the exposure. So, the standard policy they issued was actually changed to exclude ALL offshore operations. Prior to them extending my offshore mileage limitation they required ALL my Coastguard certificates and they certainly did provide the needed rider in writing to attach to the policy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
No insurance policy should read "approx 70 miles." It should state the actual miles the insurance company is insuring (e.g. up to 70 miles offshore). IF, you are found to be over that 70 mile limit, rest assured your insurance company will NOT pay, regardless what the broker says!

I agree that no policy will state an approximate number and to avoid an approximate number due to our jagged coastline the companies are using a line with North and West numbers to mark the limits which are "approximately" some distance from shore. The line is exact.


FYI... In one of my previous lives I was first a commercial underwriter, who became a commercial insurance broker. I am here to tell you do NOT always believe what a broker tells you.

I COULD'T AGREE MORE!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the laugh.
 
I don't know anything about insurance requirements for guiding but if you are a rec fisher for tuna and offshore banks. check out Christie Phoenix Insurance. They have very good rates and have policies that will cover you farther out them the standard 5 miles offshore limit. Here is there link: http://www.christiephoenix.com/

I deal with them and I'm very satisfied.
 
Our insurance is based on staying with in our Transport Canada C regulation distance from land. Check your TC regulation because if you are out side the noted distance on your TC doc the insurance firm will say you were not certified to operate
 
Back
Top