Good Article On Native Negotiating Tactics

SerengetiGuide

Well-Known Member
In no way is this racist, just providing some facts...as I am out here in Ontario, I can attest its true, plus it occurs in BC a lot as well.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/...cparland-olence-we-re-supposed-to-accept.aspx

The case brought against the Ontario government and Ontario Provincial Police in a Hamilton court is supposed to be about the confrontation with natives in Caledonia, and the alleged failure of authorities to provide protection from it. But there's something else that keeps bubbling up, a question that is central to the situation but might never be addressed by the proceedings.

It's the violence.

There was plenty of violence in Caledonia, as has been made amply clear in the opening days of the case brought by David Brown and his wife Dana Chatwell. Violence against the Browns, violence against the police, violence against the community. A hydro station was burned, a bridge set ablaze; natives in balaclavas and brandishing weapons closed off streets and issued threats against people who challenged them.

Brown told the court he and his family were regularly threatened. Their house was broken into, ransacked, covered in graffiti. Local firefighters were too intimidated to attempt to put our fires. When an OPP team tried to seize back the development occupied by natives they were beaten back by an armed mob. Community members attest that they grew to believe the OPP would do nothing to protect them if the violence was directed their way.

It's the acceptance of this that is alarming. This case isn't about whether it was right or wrong for the natives to act as they did, it's about whether authorities should have done more to protect an innocent couple from its effects. It's as if the violence itself isn't an issue. As if Canadians -- or people in Ontario, in any case -- have come to accept that it's normal for natives to react with threats, aggression and intimidation in certain circumstances, and that it's normal for authorities to accept that fact and accommodate it.

Brown and his wife are seeking $7 million, arguing the province and police had a duty to protect them after a land claim dispute blew up in a neighbourhood that happened to border and isolate their home. The Crown case -- and the trial is just in its early stages -- has argued there are policy issues at hand, that Mr. Brown's actions sometimes provoked the natives, and that the damages they're asking are excessive given that they didn't suffer physical injury, despite many threats.

What hasn't been an issue so far is why it should be taken for granted that violence would result from any attempt to confront the natives in the same way a non-native group would have been confronted.

No one has disputed so far that the native approach, from the start of the confrontation, involved a heavy dose of intimidation. Though the land claim had been trundling along for ages, the natives indicated they'd reached a new level of frustration by occupying the property, subsequently building barricades and blocking roads, making life exceedingly more difficult for hundreds of Caledonians who had nothing to do with the argument. The OPP attempt to take back the property set off wave of retaliatory destruction that heightened native anger and, the Browns say, turned their life into a nightmare.

The official response was to back off. The Ontario government rescued the developer by buying the property and letting the natives have the run of it. The OPP declared themselves peacekeepers, even when there wasn't much peace, and did their best not to rile the natives further. When Mr. Brown refused to accept his fate and keep quiet about it, he was the one who suffered, getting dragged off to cool down in a cell after he'd been surrounded and threatened by an angry native mob, or lectured by police when he blew his top.

This has become normal in the wake of Ipperwash and Oka. It has become common wisdom that no government is going to endanger its own standing by taking action that might provoke natives and result in violence. And it is similarly taken for granted that violence is the likely end result of "provocation" -- which has come to mean anything that might upset the natives further. When natives blocked Ontario's main highway at the peak of summer travel, the police routed drivers onto detours that added hours to their journey. The drivers did nothing wrong, but it was judged better to inconvenience them than to aggravate the protesters. When natives frightened border guards into abandoning their post at a Cornwall area border crossing, the reaction -- this time of the federal government -- was to relocate the crossing somewhere else, at whatever cost and inconvenience, rather than challenge the natives' right to intimidate.

Anything is better than a confrontation. Anything is better than provoking or angering natives, even if those causing the trouble don't enjoy the support of native leaders or the broader native community. Any bending, twisting or breaking of the law can be accommodated if necessary, because the alternative is a situation governments don't know how to deal with and are mightily afraid of.

The politicians don't know what to do. They're scared. They don't want to be blamed. So they're trying to appease native groups while hoping we learn to get used to it, that anger outside the native community doesn't boil over and cause a greater tragedy.

The victims are just supposed to live with it.




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It is one thing to create problems for the Government, but when the natives involve civilians they may not realize that they are wakening a sleeping giant and they might not like the results.
When you resort to violence you can count on the same or more back and it is usually escalating.
NOBODY WINS![B)]

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It would be unfortunate to have two mobs face each other with weapons in hand. It will happen if the govt. doesn't have the courage to enforce justice. The only thing elected officials truly fear is the loss of your vote. This is the threat that must be made clear to them.
 
This is not Craplacklastan, or any other primative country, people settle their differences on paper or in courts. FN or otherwise, anyone laying a hand on anyone else without just cause should have the book thrown at them!

We don't handle ourselves that way in this country. And anyone else trying otherwise should be prepared to spend a long time in a small room with bars answering to the name "Jennifer".

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I see testostrone building in this disscussion.Chests' sticking out and shoulders broadening.Nostrils flaring.From the only side present.
Don't worry guys.We the working people are paying our taxes and making it in everyday canadian society,shouldn't worry about what is going on with native issues.I don't feel affected,I don't care what my taxes go to,paying them is just a fact of life.I ain't afraid of over time,it still pays more in my pocket on payday.I say,make the best of what YOU got.If you do that,then you are already a better person than those looking for an easy free ride.
I know 2010 is gonna be a prosperous year for me.Getting above debt,getting better credit,and making AND SAVING some huge coin.I'm excited,you all should be too.I'm doInG GOod!!!How BoUt YoU? Work steady ,not harder,just smarter.
 
One should read the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, British Empire, and especially the collapse of last Chinese Empire. Then just substitute any country name: Japan, French, German, Russia, etc - and yes, even the United States. Note the reasons for the fall or failures as you read. All run parallel with the same ingredients. Now apply the same principles to any “government”. That should give an idea of current status and direction it is headed.

They were all a gradual process where no one just woke up one day to find their empire or government gone, or failed.

There was a redistributing of wealth in each case, but the end result - the rich still got richer and the poor always getting poorer. There were “groups” “seeing huge wealth floating around” and they took or attempted to take that wealth wanting it shared a little more fairly, at least in their eyes. (In my case can you say Obama?) End result – the “people” all had to pay higher taxes as the governments were either running or had ran out of monies. And therein, is just one of the beginnings for their collapse.

In each downfall you will also find some uncomfortable answers, but true all the same, and they all point to greed, hypocrisy, injustice, “breathtaking” double-standards, corruption in places high and low and willful immorality. The aftermath of these Empires can be seen clearly and usually finds the countries divided by unjust class and racist systems.

BTW…The Roman Empire was quite interesting as they had a lot of violence! No one ever had to decide on any way to choose an Emperor… as any general could march into Rome, kill the Emperor, and make himself the next Emperor. In 73 years there were 23 Emperors and 20 of them were murdered. Of course everyone is aware of the German and Japan Empires. Some don’t realize the U.S. is very much an Empire, and unfortunately, I believe you are currently witnessing its collapse.

But the question put forth is… why in the world would you or anyone not be concerned with rising violence, raising taxes, unjust racism (reverse or otherwise), greed, or any of the issues - which will lead to the collapse of your government?
 
That is why you need sound well thought out policies that 95% of the people can agree with when push comes to shove. Then you never have to worry about the other 5% who are always going to be beyond reasoning any way. (on either side FN and "Whities") Personally I think compensation for past wrong doings and breaches of contracts should be made to the various bands...but going forward we all have to live under one set of rules/laws. Having any special status based on race will only lead to animosity and conflict down the road.
 
It's surprising how often intimidation is attempted or even successful in the resources industries. Just recently the English River Band in northern Saskatchewan "encouraged" the contracting of their newly formed and inexperienced drilling team "suggesting" that companies will find road blocks across the main highways to their work sites otherwise. Companies are then left with the dilemma of hiring a green company and likely blowing huge budgets on poorly conducted and likely incomplete operations (can only work during freeze-up) or not being able to work at all. This while experienced crews with good equipment who have an excellent performance track records (as well as FN and otherwise employees) sit on the sidelines or decide it's no longer worth their time to continue operations in Saskatchewan. And the main companies they're threatening? The same ones that have a mandate to hire (and maintain) a workforce of >50% Northerners (North Saskatchewan FN). The companies also hire and train northerners over hiring already qualified non-northerners and donate money left and right to northern communities and "stakeholders". With Lawyers present the Companies walked away from the table so I guess we'll see what happens this winter!

Think the government did anything when another Northerner group parked a CAT across one of the northern highways? No way! One company "jumped on the grenade" so to speak and hired 10 guys from the local community (who could have applied at any of the larger companies and easily got jobs due to their hiring initiatives)to get the roadblock down. They first had a hard enough time finding 10 guys who wanted to work as it was hunting season, then they were all flown for training (3 weeks I think) to the company's home town in Ontario, 5 stayed for the whole training. Then out in the field one more quit upon starting and after a year, one person remained employed. How many 10's of thousands of dollars did that cost the company? And where did it get that band? Their hamlet was already the scariest place to stop on the entire drive from Saskatoon and then they managed to **** off everyone who had given them the benifit of the doubt! I'm sure all the truckers who sat at the roadblock and got harassed and yelled at (and apparently threatened but I can't corroborate that) are big fans of that band now and haven't bad-mouthed them to everyone they know!

Please understand I'm not trying tar all FN with the same brush and have worked with and for some real stand-up FN people all over Canada and the US and continue to work with some great Inuit folk. With some bands and individuals though there does really seem to be a "the more we get the more we want" trend It might seem like it's an attack on big business and a faceless government but the money eventually comes out of the pockets of people who pay taxes in this country. At some point the Gov't needs to grow a spine on these issues.

The worst day fishing is better than the best day working...
 
quote:Originally posted by SerengetiGuide

Here is a video of gill netting by the natives in the US. It is disgusting how they just kill the salmon for the sake of killing them, then throw them back...I'm sure some white people do this too, but if there were video of someone doing that, they'd go to jail or at least get a fine, these people got off scott free!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnbscdtMDB4
So, you guys "might""not" believe this! :)

I used to do a lot of river fishing and the first time I ran across “piles” of fish gutted for their eggs and left to rot… I was “appalled and it was appalling”. I did call Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife (WDFG), which they just more or less blew me off! The second time, I lived overlooking a hatchery and personally witnessed nets stretched from bank to bank, and other things of this nature. Another phone call to WDFG, again I was basically told they could do what they wanted! “That” actually got me involved with “Chambers Creek” hatchery and as a result, I ended up learning a lot.

You aren’t going to believe this and I am “NOT” jumping on any “band wagon”, but there just “might” be a little more to that particular video and story than first meets the eye? The captions are not necessarily correct? If, that was a natural “wild” run (endangered species), it would be against the law and never allowed by “anyone”. If they are hatchery fish, which I am sure they are, the hatcheries don’t want “all” those fish back and WDFG, does open up the fishery. A lot of times, those hatchery fish are not wanted or even allowed in the spawning grounds, as the emphases goes to the endangered species.

To my knowledge, the hatcheries “are not allowed” to provide any fish to “food banks” or anything else - that has to do with human consumption, but things do change? I have never seen anything other than “Not for human consumption” and everything shipped off for fertilizer or pet food? And, with that said, once leaving the hatchery, who knows what really happens as I also do know in the past “some” of those fish have turned up on the east coast in super markets and restaurants? Think about that for a moment… how dark are those fish?

So, with all that being said, those fish were, probably not wanted, would not be allowed to go upstream and spawn, were hatchery fish, and if allowed to or did get into a Washington hatchery trap, would probably have been sold for either fertilizer or pet food (Not for human consumption) anyway?

I am sorry... and I have changed it to "appalling", sometimes spell check works against you!
 
quote:Originally posted by Charlie

quote:Originally posted by SerengetiGuide

Here is a video of gill netting by the natives in the US. It is disgusting how they just kill the salmon for the sake of killing them, then throw them back...I'm sure some white people do this too, but if there were video of someone doing that, they'd go to jail or at least get a fine, these people got off scott free!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnbscdtMDB4
So, you guys "not" believe this! :)

I used to do a lot of river fishing and the first time I ran across “piles” of fish gutted for their eggs and left to rot… I was “applauded”. I did call Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife (WDFG), which they just more or less blew me off! The second time, I lived overlooking a hatchery and personally witnessed nets stretched from bank to bank, and other things of this nature. Another phone call to WDFG, again I was basically told they could do what they wanted! “That” actually got me involved with “Chambers Creek” hatchery and as a result, I ended up learning a lot.

You aren’t going to believe this and I am “NOT” jumping on any “band wagon”, but there just “might” be a little more to that particular video and story than first meets the eye? The captions are not necessarily correct? If, that was a natural “wild” run (endangered species), it would be against the law and never allowed by “anyone”. If they are hatchery fish, which I am sure they are, the hatcheries don’t want “all” those fish back and WDFG, does open up the fishery. A lot of times, those hatchery fish are not wanted or even allowed in the spawning grounds, as the emphases goes to the endangered species.

To my knowledge, the hatcheries “are not allowed” to provide any fish to “food banks” or anything else - that has to do with human consumption, but things do change? I have never seen anything other than “Not for human consumption” and everything shipped off for fertilizer or pet food? And, with that said, once leaving the hatchery, who knows what really happens as I also do know in the past “some” of those fish have turned up on the east coast in super markets and restaurants? Think about that for a moment… how dark are those fish?

So, with all that being said, those fish were, probably not wanted, would not be allowed to go upstream and spawn, were hatchery fish, and if allowed to or did get into a Washington hatchery trap, would probably have been sold for either fertilizer or pet food (Not for human consumption) anyway?

"applauded" ........? Please clarify , because it will likely throw off the entire context of your statement.

Thanks

HL
 
Check out these double standards...unbelievable!!!

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2273320

HAMILTON -- Recent videos of two flag-waving marches along the main street in Caledonia, passing a site that has been occupied by native protesters since 2006, were shown in court on Thursday, starkly highlighting the different reactions of police to aboriginal marchers and Caledonia residents.

The videos make it appear as though the Canadian flag has been outlawed in the area by the Ontario Provincial Police.

The first video (the fourth video on this external website) shows Caledonia resident Randy Fleming walking down the side of Argyll Street South last Victoria Day -- May 24, 2009 -- with a Canadian flag tied to a stick slung over his left shoulder. He saunters on to the edge of the occupied site, at which point he is grabbed by a black-clad OPP officer, escorted a few metres off the site, and is then pounced on by several other officers.

An officer is seen taking the flag from Mr. Fleming, quickly rolling it up and handing it to another officer, who rushes away with it.

In the second video (the first video on this external website), taped on July 15, 2009, native protesters carrying Warrior Society flags and Six Nations flags walked down the middle of the street, followed by a number of pickup trucks, some draped with Warriors flags and signs.

The native march had an OPP escort -- with a cruiser, its lights flashing, slowly driving behind the marchers. As the last of the marchers enters the occupied site, an officer is seen talking with them and gives a wave as he gets into his cruiser to leave.

"They even waved at them, isn't that special," a female voice is heard saying on the video. Other voices can be heard pointedly noting the discrepancy in the approaches police took to the two flag-carrying incidents.

The videos were both taken by David Brown, who is suing the province of Ontario and the OPP for failing to protect him and his family and for not enforcing the laws against protesters who occupy a 70-acre site that borders his property on two sides.

They were shown to Ontario Superior Court Justice Thomas Bielby by the Crown as part of its defence of the $7-million lawsuit filed by Mr. Brown, 42, his wife, Dana Chatwell, 45, and their son, Dax Chatwell, 18.

The court has heard much over the past week about flag wars going on around the occupied site since the 2006 occupation of land that was being developed into a residential subdivision.

Court heard how the occupation grew violent after the OPP tried to eject protesters on April 20, 2006, only to be pushed back by a growing throng of natives.

After retaking the site, native protesters erected roadblocks on Argyll Street, the thoroughfare leading to it, trapping the house of Mr. Brown as the only one on the native side of the barricade. Court heard earlier that OPP officers would not cross the natives' barricade, even when witnessing criminal acts.

The barricades were removed on May 23, 2006, but the occupation continues.

Since then numerous flag incidents have occurred, court heard.

Mr. Brown said the atmosphere surrounding them was extremely hostile. "This hatred, you could cut with a knife," Mr. Brown said. "You can see how people get with these flag raisings."

One day, native protesters stole a Canadian flag off his property and stood on the site waving it at the OPP, teasing them, daring them to come on to the site to get it, Mr. Brown said. The OPP did nothing, he said.

"I told them [the OPP] I wanted my flag back.... They said, ‘Not at this time.' "

Mr. Brown admitted to later flying a Warriors flag on his property with an "X" painted through it. "I believe I was going a little crazy at the time.... I was tired of looking at ... the Canadian flag upside down, with the leaf cut out of it."

Court heard of a Caledonia resident, a war veteran, who was set upon by OPP officers for trying to walk along the street in front of the occupied site with a Canadian flag.

Court also heard OPP reports of calls from the community to police complaining of native marches being allowed with Warriors flags and Six Nations flags, but Canadian flags being banned by the OPP in the same area.

Mr. Brown said all he has seen over almost four years living at the edge of the occupied site leads him to conclude that the native protesters are in control of the area, not the OPP.

"They [natives] come and go and do whatever they want, whenever they feel like it, without discipline or without arrests," he testified. "Obviously, the natives are in charge."

Late in the afternoon, Ms. Chatwell took the stand as the second witness to be sworn in to give evidence. She compared living next to the occupation as being like her past abusive marriage, during which she twice had her former husband charged with assault.

"This whole situation is like my spousal abuse," she said.

Her examination is scheduled to continue on Monday.

The case will not be heard today to allow participants to attend the funeral of Justice David Marshall, a renowned local judge who was involved in the Caledonia dispute, issuing the injunction that ordered native protesters to leave the site.



Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2273320#ixzz0Y58GvgM0
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Absolutely scary-- I am just glad that our local band sees the value of working with the greater community.


Intruder2-2.jpg


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Roy Green will be discussing this with the family that was chased out.
CKNW in the afternoon, today

Intruder2-2.jpg


20ft Alumaweld Intruder
 
Roy Green will be discussing this with the family that was chased out.
CKNW in the afternoon, today

Intruder2-2.jpg


20ft Alumaweld Intruder
 
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