Fish Farm Legislation ???

[Fish-Hunter]

sockeyefry2, you haven't answered the question that I had asked earlier, now I did not directly ask you, I only asked in reference to your qoute, so I will ask you directly do you have the answer to the following:

I've got a question, what do you mean by they were required to perform swims? Do you mean that they put divers in the ocean (or river) to swim around and look for the alien (not the outerspace kind or radiation exposed) fish in the water returning from the open sea? If so, what the hell were they going to do if they found some? Try to chase them down and catch them to remove them from the water?

???

 

[Mi Chica]

Fish Hunter - well said. Point, set, and match!

 

[sockeyefry2]

Holmes, Every human activity has a negative effect. Some are small and some are large. All agriculture has an effect, but the production of food outweighs the negatives.

Fish Hunter, It is unfortunate that people such as yourself who have no understanding of what is involved in a closed containment feel that they can spout their ill informed opinions for the consumption of the equally un washed.

The swims took place in the Gold River to determine if any of the escaped salmon survived to move into the river. If any were found they were to be removed. None were found.

 

[cuttlefish]

Sockeyefry2,

I'm interested in keeping things civil and learning more. You seem to know a lot about the Grieg operations around Nootka Island and Gold River. Do you work for them? If so, could you share some farm lice numbers for the Esperanza and Muchalat Inlet farms? Charlie provided some documentation but you have not.

I remember a meeting in Campbell River back in 2006. When asked about sharing fish health information with the public by a member of the Special Legislative Committee on Sustainable Aquaculture, Peter Gibson, Grieg’s Managing Director, is on record saying, “We’d have no problem reporting as an individual company or having it sent out as an individual company. It would be fine. We’ve got nothing to hide.”
http://www.leg.bc.ca/cmt/38thparl/session-2/aquaculture/hansard/W60607p.htm

So in the same vein of public disclosure, I would also like to know who Grieg shared their snorkel surveys of Gold River with. Was it DFO or the Province? What was the timing of those swims? Not that I expect an escaped farm salmon would swim up the nearest watershed, but it would be easier for everyone to accept what you say if there was something that backs up your statements.

And in the same vein, can you tell me if there has been another escape in the Nootka Island/Muchalat Inlet area very recently? Please be honest here.

Finall, I would also like to know what ever happened to Grieg's promise to build a processing plant in Gold River? Seems to me there has to be a fairly big footprint and cost attached to hauling whole fish from Gold River to Walcan on Quadra Island for processing.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Holmes, it's OK now sockeyefry2 has set everything straight and has it all under control... we can all keep our "ill informed opinions" to ourselves now. The Lice Farm industry appears to have the situation handled, if any fish do get out of the net pens, they will just put a diver in the water 2-3 years later to swim around and see if they can see the fish that got away (and if they see them they will remove them from the water) and if they don't see them,,,,well I guess that no fish actually got out of the pens - false alarm. Ridiculous you think??? No way we are imagining things and we have no idea what we are talking about because we are not fish farmers. Do you feel beter now?? Didn't think so. Complete BS! Maybe they should put divers in the ocean to clean the Lice off of the few wild fish that are left if they can find them.

Sockeyfry2: Since you are so well informed in the subject of fish farming, please do enlighten us all as to the complete benefits and downfalls of the net pen farms versus the closed containment farms. If you can prove to me and the rest of us that the net pens are 100% completely safe and no risk attached to them whatsoever and 100% the best solution for the environment, then I will shut up on the topic, in fact if you can convert me, I may even argue along side of you as to how good they are,,,, but first you have got to completely convince me. I will look at your compiled and presented info with a completely open mind to hear you out. Awaiting your presentation that will convert a current sceptic.

 

[sockeyefry2]

No Cuttle, I don't work for Grieg. In fact I don't work for any BC fish farming company.

The swims were shared with the M&M and the province.
I don't know about any recent escapes, was there rumours of one?
I understand how CC farms would appear to be the answer to you uninitiated, but they create more issues than they seem to solve. The same amount of energy spent on transportation would occur, except that you have to increase the energy expended in maintaining the in tank environment (Pumping water) and the energy in the construction of the farms which are much more complex and costly

It will be interesting to see how the projects near Oort Hardy and North of Campbell river pan out, although history does not suggest a positive result.

 

[Charlie]

I understand how CC farms would appear to be the answer to you uninitiated, but they create more issues than they seem to solve. The same amount of energy spent on transportation would occur, except that you have to increase the energy expended in maintaining the in tank environment (Pumping water) and the energy in the construction of the farms which are much more complex and costly
.

Nope... I won't buy off on the carbon footprint thing at all! That carbon footprint and associated costs thing, just might be a little weak! For example, has any of those Norwegian companies even ever looked into, or considered something called... “solar”and/or “wind” power?

 

[cuttlefish]

Thanks for the reply, Sockeyefry2. So, you don't work for Grieg or any other salmon farming company. Yet you seem to know a lot more about Grieg's operations (i.e. sea lice numbers on farms, snorkel swim counts) in the Nootka/Muchalat area and other facets of industry such as closed containment than others on here.
Since you still did not share your source or any documentation for the info you posted, seems to me that the only ones who would have access to that kind of information outside the industry would be the governments which manage the industry - the province or DFO. Do you or did you work for government managing the industry? I'm not prying into your affiliations, I'm just trying to understand how it is that you know so much more than the 'uninitiated', as you refer to others on this forum.

 

[eaglemaniac]

He might not work directly for Grieg etc. He's just a hired spin doctor working for one of the lobbyist's for the industry. As I mentioned earlier. SHILL. You will get knowhere with this turkey. eman

 

[sockeyefry2]

Cuttle,

I don't cite articles because I don't know how to insert them into the posts like yourself, Charlie and Agent Aqua could do.

Frankly I could care less is all the farms in BC get shut down. It won't impact me in the least. I am not a shill or industry hack, don't work for the industry in BC and am not in Government. I used to live in Gold River but left a few years ago. Knew a few people who worked in the hatchery there and we kept in touch. Not so much lately though. Was there another escape? I haven't heard anything.

I just don't like seeing personal agendas and a campaign of misinformation cause the shutting down of a very viable industry, especially in rural areas. Wild salmon are not in decline because of fish farms. The problem is too widespread for it to be the fault of such a insignificant point source effect. Don't forget California, Oregon, and Washington are also having issues without any farms, or very few in Wash. and Alaska wouldn't have the salmon industry it has without massive hatchery augmentation. Did you ever stop to think that it might be due to the billions of salmon released each year by Alaska, Russia, and Japan to feed in the North Pacific. There is only so much feed out there and maybe the hatchery reared fish have been given an advantage of size, and the BC wild fish are losing out? I think it would be a tragedy if BC chose to shut down the industry based on the information coming out of the anti camp. I think the industry should be more open, and accept that people have legitimate concenrs, and work to resolving the issues rather than the emotionally charged rhetoric and polarization we have now.

What would you do if it was determined that the population crashes of the Fraser River Sockeye were caused by the presence of the city of Vanbcouver and all the surrounding cities in the Fraser watershed? Would you be calling for the removal of the urbans areas, move them to the interior?

It is not so simple as it sounds to put em on shore. To give you a perspective the BC industry produces some 60000 tonnes of product. A on shore farm that produces 3000 tonnes costs $25 million dollars. To move the entire production on shore would require 20 farms costing a total of $500 million. That is just for the farms, it does not include the added electricity generating plants or roads or other pieces of infrastructure. The cost of requiring the industry to go on shore would be billions. So it is easier to simply shut it down, except I figure that will only start the legal proceedings as the companies sue the province.

BTW the figures stated can be found in DFO's Closed Containment report. It's on their website.

 

[eaglemaniac]

Like I said. eman

 

[sockeyefry2]

Charlie,
Power consumption is a big cost in hatcheries, especially the more modern ones based on recirculation technology. The amount of electricity required is quite high, not to mention propane or oil to heat the water.
30 hp of pumps is required to produce 40 tonnes of product. That is just to move the water through the tanks. It does not include the power for water treatment areas, lighting, feeders, etc... So the total power usage would probabaly be 50 kw or more.

So a farm which produces 3000 tonnes which is a typical netpen farm production would require 75 times this 50kw or 3750 kw.

Do you know of a cost effective wind farm or solar installation could supply that kind of power? If you do then if I was you, I would go visit Marine Harvest because they would buy it in a minute.

 

[rico]

It's not their right to be there. If they cant do business in a viable, responsible way, then shut down and leave! That's what happens in real life. Lots of businesses go belly up, and are forced to close its doors.

 

[Charlie]

Cuttle,

I don't cite articles because I don't know how to insert them into the posts like yourself, Charlie and Agent Aqua could do.

Frankly I could care less is all the farms in BC get shut down. It won't impact me in the least. I am not a shill or industry hack, don't work for the industry in BC and am not in Government. I used to live in Gold River but left a few years ago. Knew a few people who worked in the hatchery there and we kept in touch. Not so much lately though. Was there another escape? I haven't heard anything.

I just don't like seeing personal agendas and a campaign of misinformation cause the shutting down of a very viable industry, especially in rural areas..... .

The "viable industry" is KILLING THE WILD SALMON! Now, if you want to bring in the rest of the world, I will gladly go down the road! You want to start with Norway, Chile, Eastern Canada, Maine, Scottland, etc, etc, etc! There are NO Norway salmon farms in the U.S., kind of funny since that is one of their biggest markets; however, they left as they didn't like playing by our rules! They make more "money" in countries that have less concerns with their ecosystems (e.g. CANADA)! Now with pressure building in Canada, what are they doing... moving to - China! Trying to and are going back into Chile. Hmmm... let's see they can grow salmon in Chile and ship it to the U.S. cheaper than growing them in either Canada or the U.S.? See anything wrong with that picture? Yep, great industry you are representing there. Come in, destroy an ecosystem, then move on to another!

So, am I confused here? I guess the key there is "don't work for the industry in BC"? Am I now to assume (and you want me to believe), “Sockeyefry” and “Sockeyefry2” are now NOT the same? That would be a funny coincidence, wouldn't it? There does seem to be a bit of conflict of information being given between the two individuals. What happen,someone threaten your job? Does this sound familiar:

“I have no problem with closed containment. I have managed 4 different CC sites. 2 in saltwater, 1 in freshwater and 1 recirculation site. An industry wide switch to CC would place people with these skills in great demand.”

http://www.sportfishingbc.com/forum/showthread.php?6746-fish-farm-siting-criteria-politics/page114

 

[Little Hawk]

Charlie: I gave up dukeing-it-out with the likes of Sockeye long ago. Kudos' to you for parrying a blow here and there. This industry survives on a bed padded with lies, misinformation (promulgated by the likes of Sockeye) and in-the-pocket politicians such as Campbell & Harper.

The net-pen industry's days are numbered and the industry knows this. One can measure their anxiety level by things like how many trolls are active on forums like this and how many of their stupid, duplicitous TV commercials they are running as they scramble to defend the carnage they inflict on our coastline.

A decade or so ago, after attending the Campbell River session of the 'Legatt Inquiry' into salmon farming, I held out great hope that this retired and highly respected Provincial Judge would reveal to the government and people of Canada the real scourge that salmon farming is. Not so. The People heard the evidence loud & clear, but our 'Pocket-Politicians' owned by the Norwegians' had other priorities and turned there backs on our wild fish.

The Cohen Inquiry however, could be a whole-nother'-smoke and the DFO could actually held accountable for their collusion in this tragic mess.
I wait with baited breath.

The ultimate for me would be to see a list of names of so-called 'Canadian' politicians who've accepted bribe-money from the industry while our Pacific salmon and pristine waterways suffered at the hands of this disgusting industry.

 

[sockeyefry2]

Charlie,

This is what happens when people are quoted out of context. The statement you show was in response to a comment that I would be out of a job if closed containment became a reality, and I was indicating that far from the truth, people with my skill set would be in great demand if the systems were economically viable for the growing of market salmon.

Now I am being accused of being an Industry shill so the current post is to indicate that I don't work in BC.

Just because I would be in demand does not make up for the fact that any CC farm will not be economically viable.

Regardless of Little Hawk, Holmes et al and their infantile ramblings, I do enjoy discussing this issue with yourself, cuttle, Gun and agent aqua. BTW do you know what happened to Agent.

 

[sockeyefry2]

Holmes,
There you go again.

 

[sockeyefry2]

Charlie,
Do you have any alternate energy system which may help in alleviating the high power cost and make the CC's more viable? There would be a lot of interest in the fish farming companies. There are alot of advantages in CC's, some of which have been posted here, but the stumbling block is the cost of power.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Charlie,

Regardless of Little Hawk, Holmes et al and their infantile ramblings, I do enjoy discussing this issue with yourself, cuttle, Gun and agent aqua. BTW do you know what happened to Agent.

If you want to have private conversations with a select few individuals, then perhaps you should not be trying to hold these conversations on a public forum, where everyone has an equal right to express their opinions. You do not have to agree with everyones opinions, as such not everyone has to agree with your opinions. The object of the public forum is that when differing opinions are presented, both parties should be able to look at the opposing ideas and perhaps learn something new from them or confirm (for themselves) their orriginal opinion.

BTW - you are initiating in a politically sensitive conversation that so many people have EXTREME passion for and against, so you are bound to run into individuals that have already been stretched beyond their limits of "politcal correctness" on the issue.

Since I did not make your "select" list, I will bow out of "your" conversation, considering on this issue we are not likely to completely see keyboard to keyboard, I will read from the sidelines. Good Luck!

 

[sockeyefry2]

Hey Fish Hunter.

I agree with you. But read Holmes latest. There is no exchange of ideas, no positive discussion. He started the name calling, mainly because I do not agree with him. So now reread your last post with that in mind. Now read Charlies, Mine. I am trying to find out if they have info regarding alternate power systems which could provide a solutuon which everyone could agree on. Maybe Charlie has some insight that noone else has, I do not know.

I am not here to "justify a disgusting industry" I don't care if there ever is another salmon grown in BC. What I am trying to do is engage in a discussion regarding the fish farm industry and the issues surrounding it. There are people here on this forum and in the media who have polarised this issue and made it a very emotional Us vs Them situation. Nothing will ever get solved this way. Maybe instead of starting the discussion with a "get them out or else" attitude, you should try a "What is is going to take to get them out and how can we help with the transition" approach. You know the honey over vinnegar.