Finally, they figured it out. Not enough food in the ocean!

[OldBlackDog]

Deteriorating pastures?

A significant drop in Pacific Ocean salmon harvests last year is driving new questions as to whether the ocean has reached its salmon carrying capacity. The discussion comes at a time when sockeye …

craigmedred.news

 

[wildmanyeah]

Have to start a nuclear war IE just start producing as much hatchery fish as possible to force PST and Northern treaty to act.

Canada will be left behind because currently our hatchery production is so small in comparison. Since our hatch fish are using such a small % of the pasture.

if they were to set out a rule like no more additional hatch production for Canada, Japan, Russia and USA Canada will come out a big looser.

 

[dradons]

Ocean ranching is ********. How they thought that was a good idea is beyond me.

 

[fish brain]

I have trouble understanding the "We are exceeding the oceans carrying capacity" argument, when I hear stories of what the returns to rivers used to be compared to the returns we experience today. The numbers were staggering. My friends grandfather in Cowichan Bay lived about a kilometre from the bay. He used to say that you knew when it was time to go fishing when you could hear the fish jumping in the bay from his farm. There are many anecdotal stories like this from around the province, so there must be some truth to them. And if those stories are true, then the ocean HAD a huge carrying capacity and possibly could have again. Is the problem over fishing of feed stocks like herring and anchovies? Is pollution and global warming killing off plankton and krill, is that why the herring and anchovy stock are dwindling, leading to reduced feed for salmon? Is it climate change affecting all of these things? Where do fish farms fin in the whole ocean survival equation?
Certainly the ocean had the capacity to carry many more salmon than it does now. But I highly doubt that Alaskas ranching efforts are the cause. They may be highlighting the over arching problem, perhaps it's time to start exploring how to bring back the oceans carrying capacity.

 

[ericl]

I have trouble understanding the "We are exceeding the oceans carrying capacity" argument, when I hear stories of what the returns to rivers used to be compared to the returns we experience today.

Plankton abundance in the ocean is cyclic/variable, and warmer water grows plankton that are less nutritious. This plankton are the base of the food chain.

 

[fish brain]

Plankton abundance in the ocean is cyclic/variable, and warmer water grows plankton that are less nutritious. This plankton are the base of the food chain.

That's kind of the point I am trying to make. The ocean has the capacity to support huge numbers of fish, but that capacity has been diminished for numbers of reasons. I doubt that Alaska's Ranching activities have caused any of these problems, but they have certainly pointed them out. Other than blaming Alaska, to me the question is, how can we fix it?

 

[dradons]

That's kind of the point I am trying to make. The ocean has the capacity to support huge numbers of fish, but that capacity has been diminished for numbers of reasons. I doubt that Alaska's Ranching activities have caused any of these problems, but they have certainly pointed them out. Other than blaming Alaska, to me the question is, how can we fix it?

There are obviously are a number of compounding factors. That being said, I don't think we really know the capacity of the ocean for certain species. Time and time again, nature shows that unbalancing any piece of the ecosystem has up and down impacts.

 

[terrin]

There are obviously are a number of compounding factors. That being said, I don't think we really know the capacity of the ocean for certain species. Time and time again, nature shows that unbalancing any piece of the ecosystem has up and down impacts.

Well we do have some historical records for comparison.

 

[wildmanyeah]

There are obviously are a number of compounding factors. That being said, I don't think we really know the capacity of the ocean for certain species. Time and time again, nature shows that unbalancing any piece of the ecosystem has up and down impacts.

Yes lots of factors, pre 1900 whaling was quite popular. since whaling moratoriums populations of humpback whales in the pacific northwest have greatly increased.

I have trouble understanding the "We are exceeding the oceans carrying capacity" argument, when I hear stories of what the returns to rivers used to be compared to the returns we experience today. The numbers were staggering. My friends grandfather in Cowichan Bay lived about a kilometre from the bay. He used to say that you knew when it was time to go fishing when you could hear the fish jumping in the bay from his farm. There are many anecdotal stories like this from around the province, so there must be some truth to them. And if those stories are true, then the ocean HAD a huge carrying capacity and possibly could have again. Is the problem over fishing of feed stocks like herring and anchovies? Is pollution and global warming killing off plankton and krill, is that why the herring and anchovy stock are dwindling, leading to reduced feed for salmon? Is it climate change affecting all of these things? Where do fish farms fin in the whole ocean survival equation?
Certainly the ocean had the capacity to carry many more salmon than it does now. But I highly doubt that Alaskas ranching efforts are the cause. They may be highlighting the over arching problem, perhaps it's time to start exploring how to bring back the oceans carrying capacity.

Whaling would help, mammals are smarter then fish

 

[wildmanyeah]

Well we do have some historical records for comparison.View attachment 67207

yeah but that only proves what the article is saying. It’s saying south coast fishery’s did better when Russia and Alaska and japan weren’t putting out millions of hatchery fish.

the therory is Alaska and Russia fish make it to the feeding grounds first. Thus was not always the case as Alaska And Russia would still be in a deep freeze and Canadian and esouthern USA fish were making there way north.

 

[mbowers]

That's kind of the point I am trying to make. The ocean has the capacity to support huge numbers of fish, but that capacity has been diminished for numbers of reasons. I doubt that Alaska's Ranching activities have caused any of these problems, but they have certainly pointed them out. Other than blaming Alaska, to me the question is, how can we fix it?

“The abundance of salmon in the North Pacific has reached record levels,” they wrote in their peer-reviewed study published in Fish and Fisheries last fall. “However, most of the increase is in the two lowest valued species, (pinks and chums) in far northern regions, at least in part due to ocean ranching.

“In contrast, essentially all west coast North American Chinook populations including Alaska are now performing poorly with dramatically reduced productivity.”

The capacity of the ocean to support salmon has not been diminished, it has been increased.

We either find a way to make Alaska stop ranching, flood the ocean with our own hatchery fish or just accept we get a small fraction of the fish that we used to from an overcrowded ocean.


The science just gets more clear every year.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Global Pacific salmon numbers dropped sharply in 2020

From Japan to British Columbia, salmon commercial catches suffered major declines in 2020

biv.com

"Global abundance of Pacific salmon in 2020 was the lowest it has been since 1982, according to the North Pacific Anadromous Fish Commission (NPAFC). That’s despite a record number of hatchery fish – 5.5 billion – being released the year before in 2019."

 

[gone fishin]

A step in the right direction in providing more fish food would be to stop the Herring and Krill fishery.
Would not totally solve the problem, but would be a step in the right direction...Just like getting sea lice and disease spreading Fish Farms onto dry land.

 

[terrin]

A step in the right direction in providing more fish food would be to stop the Herring and Krill fishery.
Would not totally solve the problem, but would be a step in the right direction...Just like getting sea lice and disease spreading Fish Farms onto dry land.

Sounds like two very doable and smart moves to me. We can’t stop climate change overnight but these are two things we can stop overnight.

 

[terrin]

yeah but that only proves what the article is saying. It’s saying south coast fishery’s did better when Russia and Alaska and japan weren’t putting out millions of hatchery fish.

the therory is Alaska and Russia fish make it to the feeding grounds first. Thus was not always the case as Alaska And Russia would still be in a deep freeze and Canadian and esouthern USA fish were making there way north.

Like you say it’s a theory among others. Have all the miles of illegal high seas drift nets disappeared that we heard so much about a decade ago? Herring populations have been overfished and likely over harvesting krill as well owing some other possible theories.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Why does every thread have to get derailed on herring?

 

[gone fishin]

Why does every thread have to get derailed on herring?

Could it be because the herring stocks have been so severely depleated in so many of the places where salmon have fed on them in the past?

 

[SpringVelocity]

Could it be because the herring stocks have been so severely depleated in so many of the places where salmon have fed on them in the past?

So again what does your post have to do with topic? Your making a very large statement that herring are responsible for salmon decline. If that is case why are whales and other marine life not crashing that feed on them? To date seen nothing but I think its this.

 

[gone fishin]

So again what does your post have to do with topic? Your making a very large statement that herring are responsible for salmon decline. If that is case why are whales and other marine life not crashing that feed on them? To date seen nothing but I think its this.

Do Chinook, Coho and Pinks eat herring?
My post has everything to do with the topic of this thread.
AND I am not saying what you are accusing me of; "Your making a very large statement that herring are responsible for salmon decline"
I am simply saying there has been a significant decline in herring in the area's I have fished Chinook in for over 50 years.
You could open a thread about why we are not seeing Grey Whales like we have in the past, but I will leave that up to you,
“The population of gray whales that migrate along the West Coast has declined about 24 percent since 2016."
Do you fish the West Coast...you would see for yourself.

 

[SpringVelocity]

Do Chinook, Coho and Pinks eat herring?
My post has everything to do with the topic of this thread.
AND I am not saying what you are accusing me of; "Your making a very large statement that herring are responsible for salmon decline"
I am simply saying there has been a significant decline in herring in the area's I have fished Chinook in for over 50 years.
You could open a thread about why we are not seeing Grey Whales like we have in the past, but I will leave that up to you,
“The population of gray whales that migrate along the West Coast has declined about 24 percent since 2016."
Do you fish the West Coast...you would see for yourself.

So your saying gray whales are declining because there isn't herring? Seems far fetched.