Deewar25
Well-Known Member
mmm...yum yum http://www.albany.edu/ihe/salmonstudy/
Farmed and Dangerous...
- Thread starter Andrew P
- Start date
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
Ah yes the old hites study. Lots of reading in this link about that.
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/re...-prevaricate-about-pcbs-in-farmed-salmon.html
Money.
http://fairquestions.typepad.com/re...-prevaricate-about-pcbs-in-farmed-salmon.html
Money.
Exactly. Ask Victoria about that.
I find it interesting that the pro-open net-cage bunch doesn't like conspiracy theories if the so-called anti- side brings them up - but if Vivian Krause does - well ya - they're totally bought-in. Nothing but the truth from Vivian!!!
my questions are fair, too - BN. You may not like them and call them - what was it now? - dishonest?
EVERYONE'S questions are fair - including all the posters on this forum - including the ones you like to call "haters" because you obviously disagree with their perspective. Hell, even your arch-nemesis's questions (aka Morton) are "fair" questions.
The question for me isn't if the questions are "fair", but are they informed, accurate, and relevant?
More importantly - are the ANSWERS to those same questions informed, accurate and relevant? Do the answers support a particular point of view? Is there validity to the answers? Do the answers contribute to an informed dialogue?
THOSE are the questions...
EVERYONE'S questions are fair - including all the posters on this forum - including the ones you like to call "haters" because you obviously disagree with their perspective. Hell, even your arch-nemesis's questions (aka Morton) are "fair" questions.
The question for me isn't if the questions are "fair", but are they informed, accurate, and relevant?
More importantly - are the ANSWERS to those same questions informed, accurate and relevant? Do the answers support a particular point of view? Is there validity to the answers? Do the answers contribute to an informed dialogue?
THOSE are the questions...
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Well the 1st thing I will admit is that I really don't have time to read Vivian's braindroppings. I do spend time on the science and politics/governance/regulations.
BUT - just for argument's sake - let's just skip to the end of your argument and say Vivian is correct - that besides infiltrating and corrupting my mind - the "dreaded Americans" also fund research negative to fish farm PR talking notes in order to shut them down so they get all the market to their onezies.
So what?
The science is what is important when assessing both potential and realized risks and impacts. This is where the so-called "anti" lobby has performed far better than the pro-side of things - BECAUSE - (wait for it - drum roll please).......................................................
There are impacts!!!
(this is where I go DUH!!)
The relevance of Vivian's oozing of conspiracy would be considered by me to be largely irrelevant in the context of assessing risks/impacts from fish farms. It is what I would call a "red-herring". An attempt to switch the focus away from looking at impacts by invoking nationalism - much like how dum-dum Bush used "weapons of mass destruction" to sway the American public into supporting the invasion of Iraq.
You know if aliens wanted to examine Harper's brain - I'd be okay with that too - even if they were "offworlders". I'd like to know what they found, and let them know about our peer-alien review process - but I wouldn't say: "Hey those guys are funded by planet Krkolek! Bet ya those evil Americans let them in".
Also, aren't your fish-farms owned and run by NORWEGIAN corporations?
Hey - wait a minute - they're NOT Canadian, either...
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GLG
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you should read this link and judge for yourself.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Vivian_Krause
We know who butters her bread.....
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Charlie
Well-Known Member
Well, they really are NOT a "bunch of whack jobs" and they are accurate! And, yes New Zealand does farm salmon and YOUR farmed salmon really are BANNED in both Australia and New Zealand.
The part you are missing is New Zealand doesn't ban farmed salmon. They BAN the use of "synthetic" astaxanthin made from "petrochemicals." Since, YOUR BC farmed salmon are fed that synthetic astaxanthin made from those "petrochemicals" to turn that greyish color flesh pink (that is NOT approved human consumption) that is what banned.
Just for the record, if you check the law, it should also be banned in the USA!
A wasted life followed by a curious retirement? Are you just that ignorant or is it just for show? Because I am thinking that you are that ignorant because you know nothing about Dave - what he did and what he continues to do. Kudos to Dave for keeping his comments above the belt while people like you act like a bunch of juvenile delinquents. It doesn't say much about you if you have to resort to rude attacks to get your point across. That's sad.
Climate change happened on his watch? Human encroachment? Yeah, let's put it all on Dave's shoulders. What about your contribution to these issues on YOUR watch? Give your head a shake.
Sorry, but you are incorrect to a certain extent, Englishman. First, let’s define what “diversion rate” means. The diversion rate is the percentage of Fraser Sockeye that return from the Pacific Ocean through Johnstone Strait as opposed to Juan de Fuca Strait. The diversion rate can change year to year, within the season itself and between CUs. It may also depend on water temperatures. In 2010, the diversion rate for Fraser Sockeye in early August was 28%. Test catches at this time in Area 12 and 20 had similar proportions of Early Summer, Summer, and Late Run Sockeye. However, in late August when Late Run Sockeye made up a greater proportion (95%) of the test catches, the diversion rate was 94%. Late Run Sockeye includes Late South Thompson - areas like Adams River and Lower Shuswap River. If you are talking about juvenile Fraser Sockeye, the majority are believe to migrate north through Johnstone Strait.
http://www.psc.org/NewsRel/2010/NewsRelease08.pdf
http://www.psc.org/news_frpnews.htm (past and present inseason reports from the Fraser Panel are located here)
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol01_02.pdf#zoom=100
Thanks for elevating the discussion, Shuswap. Your post brings-up 2 interesting, additional points about juvie/adult migrations:
!/ Looks like salmon and sea turtles may "read the magnetic field of their home area and "imprint" on it", according to a published theory in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences: http://www.pnas.org/content/105/49/19096.full.pdf+html
In the case of Fraser River juvie to adult migrations; later, the juvies (now grown, returning adult salmon) follow the magnetic lines of force they imprinted on back to their natal river. Yearly changes in the lines of magnetic flux help determine the route back; i.e. the "diversion rate". This specific example is explained at:
http://behavinganimals.wordpress.co...earths-magnetic-field-to-find-their-way-home/
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982213000031
http://biotelemetry.ucdavis.edu/pub... al_CB_Geomagnetic Imprinted Salmon_ 2013.pdf
2/ One of the tribs within the Fraser River - the Harrison - has much better ocean survival rates than most other Fraser tribs - these Harrison smolts go "outside" along WCVI shores and largely miss the interactions in the Discovery Islands and the Broughtons wrt open net-cage impacts. We already discussed this at length on some of the other posts about fish farms which you participated in. You should already remember these posts.
!/ Looks like salmon and sea turtles may "read the magnetic field of their home area and "imprint" on it", according to a published theory in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences: http://www.pnas.org/content/105/49/19096.full.pdf+html
In the case of Fraser River juvie to adult migrations; later, the juvies (now grown, returning adult salmon) follow the magnetic lines of force they imprinted on back to their natal river. Yearly changes in the lines of magnetic flux help determine the route back; i.e. the "diversion rate". This specific example is explained at:
http://behavinganimals.wordpress.co...earths-magnetic-field-to-find-their-way-home/
http://www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982213000031
http://biotelemetry.ucdavis.edu/pub... al_CB_Geomagnetic Imprinted Salmon_ 2013.pdf
2/ One of the tribs within the Fraser River - the Harrison - has much better ocean survival rates than most other Fraser tribs - these Harrison smolts go "outside" along WCVI shores and largely miss the interactions in the Discovery Islands and the Broughtons wrt open net-cage impacts. We already discussed this at length on some of the other posts about fish farms which you participated in. You should already remember these posts.
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tubber
Well-Known Member
Shuswap, you are right. My comments toward Dave are juvenile and rude. I was searching for a way to point out that just because a person spends a good chunk of his or her life supporting, advocating for and believing certain "truths" (fish farms are risk free or the government and its employees would never allow them), does not mean he was ever right in the first place, thus the wasted life comment.
My apologies Dave.
My apologies Dave.
Accepted, and thank you.
Thanks for providing that information on geomagnetic cues. Quinn is a pioneer in salmon migration work. Hopefully this type of information can be used to make for better forecasting.
As for your second point, yes I do remember that discussion we had about Harrison Sockeye. You probably also remember the compilation of the migratory information we have to date on Harrison Sockeye as well as the gaps in that information. This was discussed by Justice Cohen in the Final Report (Vol. 3; Chapter 2; page 62).
http://www.cohencommission.ca/en/pdf/FinalReport/CohenCommissionFinalReport_Vol03_02.pdf#zoom=100
Thank you.
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