Emergency SFAB Meetings About Proposed SRKW Fishing Closures

[ziggy]

This is not the time to pick on other groups like throwing the whale watchers under the bus. This is the time to form creative and strong alliances!

I agree,but the only way that works is if the whale watching and fishing communities are equally feeling the pain. If this becomes a case of one group,or one area,shouldering an excessive amount of the burden for the others, it’s doomed to fail and degenerate into an internal squabble.

 

[searun]

I’m not tossing anyone under the bus. The purpose of these closures is to gather objective scientific data to assess the impacts of the recreational fishery on SRKW feeding success. Having other users in the recreational study area corrupts your data. How will you obtain an objective assessment if there are other vessels in the area. Whale watchers likely impact feeding habits more so than do recreational fishers. We will never know if the study areas also have mixed vessel traffic in the mix.

The data results will be corrupted if we allow other users to continue their normal activities inside the study area

My concern isn’t protecting the interests of the whale watching community, it’s strictly to ensure the recreational fishing community has a good opportunity to scientifically and objectively assess the effectiveness of area closures as a management tool. How will we know if the results are skewed as a result of whale watching - it’s not a pure assessment if they are in the study area and all the sacrifices we make to test the effectiveness of closures is a waste of time if the study methodology is flawed.

This isn’t about picking any fights with whale watching it’s all about achieving reliable scientific outcomes so we know if area closures have any merit (or not). One of the theories being tested is that area closures are not an effective tool.

I would hope that our whale watching community would respect our desire to obtain an objective assessment of our activities impacts on prey acquisition. If they see this as driving a wedge then I would question their motives

Just the same as we should have an area tested where there is only whale watching activities so these alone can be assessed

Otherwise what’s the point of sacrifices made to close fishing areas. I for one would not want to have the presence of whale watching activities inside the area being assessed to determine the effectiveness of area closures for Rec fishing. Their presence is potentially adding the impact of whale watching to our study results thereby skewing the impact assessment that would be used to determine if we expand area closures. Do you want to risk that?

 

[fogged in]

Does the study include traffic?
If traffic is the issue, area 20-3 and 20-4 has far more Crab Boats and on route boats to the Renfrew and north then fishermen.
As far as taking Chinook that potentially feed the Orca's, the thought a closure of this area will help is INSANE!!!

 

[searun]

One of the study objectives is to assess effectiveness of area closures as a management tool that can be applied more broadly to improve SRKW prey acquisition success. So does trolling for salmon with our sounders running have any impacts to prey acquisition? Some would say no, others say yes. The study should help assess these impacts

They plan to be on the water observing feeding activity in both the closed area and those areas where Rec fishing is taking place.

Some of the other questions we need to ask is if fishing for Hali on the anchor is even an activity that would have any impacts. If not, then why would we have a total fin fish closure to test the impacts or benefit of area closures for salmon trolling?

 

[chris73]

If you want a meaningful study result then you better not change more than one factor at once. Leave the whale watchers there as they were there before or you will never know what difference the absence of anglers makes. In general, I hope we all agree that this is all political BS and we don't need a study to determine that removing a few sportfishing boats from an area will NOT save these whales? So I wouldn't worry too much about the scientifically correct setup of this study but rather get all interested parties in our boat to fight for a meaningful change - that is making more fish. And we all know what is needed for that: river/estuary habitat restoration, stock enhancement, proper fisheries management and fixing and managing the food chain (herring, seals...).... And for that we need the support of the whale watchers and any other group we can win for this fight.

 

[profisher]

Right on...I think everyone wants to save these whales but a study is just delaying required effective action. We are still in a study mode on Ftaser River Chinook and I fear we will still be studying the whale problem 20 years out. Maybe just like compensating veterans that suffered life shortening illnesses from toxin exposure during wartime the government will wait until very few are left and then open the vault and spend the money that was required in the first place.

 

[wildmanyeah]

I say take one of the DFO coast guard vessels and put them on SRKW babysitting duty. They can follow them around all summer. If the SRKW chase the Biomass of chinook around all summer then they will be by all the sports fishermen and whale watching boats.

Put what ever scientist you need to on their too and just be done with it.

 

[oldtimer]

Anyone that has had a lot of dealings with the DFO over the years will understand what a complete, unnecessary farce this whole Whale mess is going to turn out to be by the time this political feeding frenzy is over. There is no need to waste time and money on yet another endless study. Why ask the questions when you already know the answers? Time to step up to the plate and start making some fast, intelligent decisions. From where I sit, there seems to be two major issues why the Whales numbers are decreasing. Their food supply is being threatened by the 43K seals and the thousands of Sea Lions and they are being continually bothered, chased and stressed out on a daily basis by the Whale watching outfits. But the main problem has to be their diminishing food supply and I think that we can blame a big part of that problem on the Seals and Sea Lions.

 

[fishin_magician]

Got to start somewhere.
I agree that whale watchers DO need to be further addressed.

Killers do come by Gabriola and the Gulf Islands in April-June and they do peruse the area off the Fraser Mouth from June-September. Put a few hundred boats in the areas Chinook like to transit and a few hundred downrigger cables and sounders pinging and obviously an Orca is going to have a hard time feeding.
Having observed killer whale feeding as a guide in the Charlottes and North and Central Coasts, whales normally move on by when there are trollers working an area.

I do not know about you guys personally but if there is an option for equal opportunity of success with fewer boats around, I fish that area...without the hassle of dodging other boats...I think Orcas will use the same line of thinking....unless they are starved..and there is evidence that more food is what they need. Often times the fishing is better elsewhere too..

 

[dmurph]

Interesting though how the orcas up in Alaska have been harassing the commercial fleet up there, they have learned to follow the fleet getting free meals. Also interesting how all the documentation’s show how smart the orcas are and have learned many different hunting techniques to get certain prey. Find it interesting that our local orcas would starve and not just adapt to different food sources like the seal.
Iam not very educated on any of the political stuff but I find it very concerning sportfishing would be considered shut down, how many people’s lives revolve around the sport, charter business and all the spin offs, all the sporting goods business all the accommodations, all the boating industry and accessories that go with it. Somehow word needs to spread to the masses to try and save these areas. How many people have moved their entire lives to some of these communities based on the life style of sportfishing. It would be fine if we all thought it would solve the problem must most of us feel the sportfishing is being used as a scapegoat
Another scary thing is how the general public is only going to hear the story that shutting the sportfishing is going to save the whales. How many whale guides are out there telling how many thousands of general public the sportfishing is catching all the fish and starving the whales. If this is the only story the masses have access to, I mean who wouldn’t vote to close it down.

 

[OldBlackDog]

Further, until the sportsfishing groups get together in a room and solve how to lobby on behalf of all we are getting no where.
We need to address this like the green groups do, they are managing to be on the inside where the decisions are being made!

It all comes back to money and people.

Interesting though how the orcas up in Alaska have been harassing the commercial fleet up there, they have learned to follow the fleet getting free meals. Also interesting how all the documentation’s show how smart the orcas are and have learned many different hunting techniques to get certain prey. Find it interesting that our local orcas would starve and not just adapt to different food sources like the seal.
Iam not very educated on any of the political stuff but I find it very concerning sportfishing would be considered shut down, how many people’s lives revolve around the sport, charter business and all the spin offs, all the sporting goods business all the accommodations, all the boating industry and accessories that go with it. Somehow word needs to spread to the masses to try and save these areas. How many people have moved their entire lives to some of these communities based on the life style of sportfishing. It would be fine if we all thought it would solve the problem must most of us feel the sportfishing is being used as a scapegoat
Another scary thing is how the general public is only going to hear the story that shutting the sportfishing is going to save the whales. How many whale guides are out there telling how many thousands of general public the sportfishing is catching all the fish and starving the whales. If this is the only story the masses have access to, I mean who wouldn’t vote to close it down.

 

[oldtimer]

How come all of these other interest groups are so good at lobbying the powers that be and here we are always on the outside looking in and getting the short end of the stick?

 

[wildmanyeah]

How come all of these other interest groups are so good at lobbying the powers that be and here we are always on the outside looking in and getting the short end of the stick?

One goal, one message! boots on the ground, Social media used to convey the message, recruit, fundraise. In some cases they get celebrity and corporate backing. Pro Bono Lawyers and free milinal labour. not to mention a generation traumatized by free willy and fern gully.

did i miss anything?

 

[Peahead]

Interesting though how the orcas up in Alaska have been harassing the commercial fleet up there, they have learned to follow the fleet getting free meals. Also interesting how all the documentation’s show how smart the orcas are and have learned many different hunting techniques to get certain prey. Find it interesting that our local orcas would starve and not just adapt to different food sources like the seal.
Iam not very educated on any of the political stuff but I find it very concerning sportfishing would be considered shut down, how many people’s lives revolve around the sport, charter business and all the spin offs, all the sporting goods business all the accommodations, all the boating industry and accessories that go with it. Somehow word needs to spread to the masses to try and save these areas. How many people have moved their entire lives to some of these communities based on the life style of sportfishing. It would be fine if we all thought it would solve the problem must most of us feel the sportfishing is being used as a scapegoat
Another scary thing is how the general public is only going to hear the story that shutting the sportfishing is going to save the whales. How many whale guides are out there telling how many thousands of general public the sportfishing is catching all the fish and starving the whales. If this is the only story the masses have access to, I mean who wouldn’t vote to close it down.

Re your "scapegoat" comment, I agree that many feel that same way. You might be interested to know however that the recent discussion paper, Management Measures to Support Chinook Salmon Prey Availability for SRKW and the workshop proceedings, Availability of Prey for SRKW ( Marine Mammal Research Unit/UBC) it was commented by researchers that it was felt the cutting down on the rec sectors actual catches of Chinook salmon would not provide more Chinook for SRKW.

 

[Peahead]

Got to start somewhere.
I agree that whale watchers DO need to be further addressed.

Killers do come by Gabriola and the Gulf Islands in April-June and they do peruse the area off the Fraser Mouth from June-September. Put a few hundred boats in the areas Chinook like to transit and a few hundred downrigger cables and sounders pinging and obviously an Orca is going to have a hard time feeding.
Having observed killer whale feeding as a guide in the Charlottes and North and Central Coasts, whales normally move on by when there are trollers working an area.

I do not know about you guys personally but if there is an option for equal opportunity of success with fewer boats around, I fish that area...without the hassle of dodging other boats...I think Orcas will use the same line of thinking....unless they are starved..and there is evidence that more food is what they need. Often times the fishing is better elsewhere too..

Remember though we are talking about the SRKW, not the northern residents . Locally I have yet to experience anything that would tell me SRKW are for sure having a hard time foraging/ feeding around fishers. In fact I'd suggest the SRKW are more often attracted into the rec fishing boats . After reading Rollie's ( Profisher's) letter in this thread above, I see he has also noticed that SRKW often seem attracted to rec fishers/boats and that's in his 50 years of fishing. I feel that SRKW at the very least just swim on simply going about their activities as they normally would but this of course is far from scientific research and evidence, just my observation. Last year on a trip of mine, after locating and hooking Chinook near Vancouver, a pod of SRKW came in from way "offshore" and began very actively feeding around and under my boat, on MY chinook no less! ....all while boats in the area continued to fish. Who knows how the SRKW were effected that time but no foraging/feeding looked to be interrupted. This could change however as more trolling rec boats gather in a tighter formation. Who knows, it may also make no difference. I believe that the frequency of sonar/sounding equipment could have a negative effect on SRKW foraging but I'd be surprised if downrigger lines would cause any issues other than if whales ran into them physically.

Each of us obviously have different experiences but nobody knows for sure yet what effect rec fishers actually have on SRKW foraging if any - that's why the proposed closure areas are being considered to test for obvious differences in the areas open vs closed. I do agree though that to stop rec fishers from fishing in an area doesn't make much sense if the whale watching boats etc are also not being put through a very similar test ( their own closed areas) to see if their activity has a negative effect on the SRKW's ability to forage effectively.

 

[oldtimer]

The reason that we are the scapegoats is because we are disorganized and we are the weakest link in the chain and we put up the least resistance.

 

[pescador]

h

The reason that we are the scapegoats is because we are disorganized and we are the weakest link in the chain and we put up the least resistance.

Has there been a meeting organized for the Vancouver area? Biggest population in the province likely with the highest number of fishers. I'm certain many of us would show up.

 

[fishin solo]

Hey deryk do you k ow of any going on over here ? @Derby

 

[wildmanyeah]

The next meeting for the LFV-SFAC, area 29,28 and lower fraser river is scheduled for March 22. If you wish to join email barbara.mueller@dfo-mpo.gc.ca. Also I have not been informed of any emergency meetings for our area.

Good Morning,

Please note that our Spring LFV-SFAC Meeting is scheduled as follows:

Date: Thu.22.Mar.2018
Time: 7:00pm – 10:00pm
Location: Four Points by Sheraton
10410 – 158 Street, Surrey BC


Draft Agenda and other Info. to follow.


Barbara Mueller

Resource Manager, Fraser/BC Interior
Pacific Region Fisheries and Oceans Canada

Tel. 604.666.2370

Email: barbara.mueller@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

 

[Teja]

h


Has there been a meeting organized for the Vancouver area? Biggest population in the province likely with the highest number of fishers. I'm certain many of us would show up.

Based on the few discussions I had on the weekend, the recreational fishery group on the Vancouver side is not at all organized and has no real voice yet but, if coordinated, has the ability to have a large and diverse voice at the table. We all deal with various fishing stores, marine stores, boat and engine suppliers, marine yards, service people and service yards, fuel docks, fishery and hatchery groups all of whom have client databases and many of whom I expect would be very willing to communicate to their databases if the background message was clear and factual and the "ask" was easy to execute on. Form letters and form emails to do as much of the work as possible, short of hitting the send button, and to start the engagement of recreational stakeholders and for many voices to express their concerns to DFO in advance of DFO meetings might be beneficial.