Driving an EV pickup

[-Jim-]

Tiered pricing as Hydro is proposing is aimed squarely at incentivizing EV owners to charge late night/early morning. 5 cent/kWh lower than normal rate is near half price.

I struggle mightily with BC Hydro becoming more and more a political arm of government. They should sell power as cheap as possible at cost to the people of BC (who all own it) and not penalize them if they don't have an EV, or a way to defer consumption to odd hours.

Almost all of BC Hydro's generation comes from water turbines (hence the name) as isn't easily turned off and on to match load. (If they try at times they just "spill" the water anyways.) Peak power generation in other areas that have Gas Turbine Generation can do this more readily, and save real dollar$ to pass along to their consumers. Of course I'd rather have Hydro Generation.

I'm really enjoying this thread on the Ford Lightning, but wonder if the Ramcharger Hybrid that's coming isn't the right way to go in the near terms for folks in BC.

 

[Alex_c]

 

[sly_karma]

I struggle mightily with BC Hydro becoming more and more a political arm of government. They should sell power as cheap as possible at cost to the people of BC (who all own it) and not penalize them if they don't have an EV, or a way to defer consumption to odd hours.

Almost all of BC Hydro's generation comes from water turbines (hence the name) as isn't easily turned off and on to match load. (If they try at times they just "spill" the water anyways.) Peak power generation in other areas that have Gas Turbine Generation can do this more readily, and save real dollar$ to pass along to their consumers. Of course I'd rather have Hydro Generation.

I'm really enjoying this thread on the Ford Lightning, but wonder if the Ramcharger Hybrid that's coming isn't the right way to go in the near terms for folks in BC.

Matching load to generation is exactly what BC Hydro is trying to do. EV is obviously a growing new load, and an excellent fit for the generation at night when demand is lower. Encouraging people to charge at night helps a lot with the reasons you mention above, so it's worth something to Hydro to have customers help balance loads. The vehicles all have options in settings to facilitate this, as off peak power rates have been a thing for decades in many parts of the world.

There's a niche where Ramcharger would make sense: frequent long-ish distance towing. For shorter or infrequent longer trips, the savings of full electric would be too great to pass up, both at purchase price and running/maintenance costs. Plus on top of that you gotta decide if you want to go into the world of Dodginess.

 

[kaelc]

I struggle mightily with BC Hydro becoming more and more a political arm of government. They should sell power as cheap as possible at cost to the people of BC (who all own it) and not penalize them if they don't have an EV, or a way to defer consumption to odd hours.

Almost all of BC Hydro's generation comes from water turbines (hence the name) as isn't easily turned off and on to match load. (If they try at times they just "spill" the water anyways.) Peak power generation in other areas that have Gas Turbine Generation can do this more readily, and save real dollar$ to pass along to their consumers. Of course I'd rather have Hydro Generation.

I'm really enjoying this thread on the Ford Lightning, but wonder if the Ramcharger Hybrid that's coming isn't the right way to go in the near terms for folks in BC.

One member might have one of the new Tundra Hybrids? 11,034lb towing. It seemed like the Chevy Hybrids weren't great back in the day.

With the efficiency and costs of batteries coming down it would be great to have all electric in the city with a small battery and then gas for the long haul. Wireless charging would be nice too, the technology is there but not rolled out here yet.

 

[kaelc]

The ram seems to have a decent payload (targeted) 2652 and 14,000 lbs towing for their hybrid, Tundra less than 2000.... I just need 3500. Tesla seems to be dropping their max payload by 1000lbs to 2500lb.

I'm looking forward to solar some day on my house so I can slow my support of crown corporations, was one of our best customers until they knifed us in the back and then asked us how to do the work we did. Nice people in management, in BC Crown Corps, if you ever need crab bait.

Thrilled for you that ford lightening is working out so well in the Winter so far!

 

[Bifmalibu]

Saw a fella in a lightning filling up a 20L jerry can today. I could only wonder if he was delivering it to his buddy or wife.

 

[sly_karma]

Yeah I had to go to the fuel distributor this week too. Got a jug of Aspen two stroke for our gas cutoff saw, at the eye watering price of $37 for 4 litres. I guess they figure this is the only way they'll make a buck from me anymore.

 

[ziggy]

Matching load to generation is exactly what BC Hydro is trying to do. EV is obviously a growing new load, and an excellent fit for the generation at night when demand is lower. Encouraging people to charge at night helps a lot with the reasons you mention above, so it's worth something to Hydro to have customers help balance loads. The vehicles all have options in settings to facilitate this, as off peak power rates have been a thing for decades in many parts of the world.

There's a niche where Ramcharger would make sense: frequent long-ish distance towing. For shorter or infrequent longer trips, the savings of full electric would be too great to pass up, both at purchase price and running/maintenance costs. Plus on top of that you gotta decide if you want to go into the world of Dodginess.

My biggest complaint regarding BCHydro is the two tier pricing they have. We have electric heat and no option for gas, we also have a heat pump and a plug in hybrid. Even before the PHEV we were always into the second tier pricing even with a heat pump, simply because you can’t heat a family home electrically without getting into their higher rate.

 

[sly_karma]

So now the accountant sees it... I registered the Lightning as a personal vehicle and bill the business for km driven. He just just got the paperwork via the bookkeeper and gave me a WTF phone call. Then I explained it's a fully electric truck and it costs $0.03/km to run. "Whoa! That changes everything!"

Umm, yeah. CRA rates for reimbursement of personal vehicle use is $0.68/km for the first 5000 km, $0.62/km thereafter. Will bring me $12-13K a year, tax free. Energy costs about $750. So all the finance payments are covered, and some of the ICBC as well. Truck is literally paying for itself.

At the end of the finance period I can sell the truck to my business at reasonable market price. Another way to move a few bucks from business to personal without major tax implications. Get something new then and carry on, same pattern we've followed for a long time now. Sold the oldest vehicle in the fleet not long ago. They end up going out the door with ~350,000 km and 15-18 years old.

Something to think about if you're a small business owner and need a truck anyway.

 

[Alex_c]

So now the accountant sees it... I registered the Lightning as a personal vehicle and bill the business for km driven. He just just got the paperwork via the bookkeeper and gave me a WTF phone call. Then I explained it's a fully electric truck and it costs $0.03/km to run. "Whoa! That changes everything!"

Umm, yeah. CRA rates for reimbursement of personal vehicle use is $0.68/km for the first 5000 km, $0.62/km thereafter. Will bring me $12-13K a year, tax free. Energy costs about $750. So all the finance payments are covered, and some of the ICBC as well. Truck is literally paying for itself.

At the end of the finance period I can sell the truck to my business at reasonable market price. Another way to move a few bucks from business to personal without major tax implications. Get something new then and carry on, same pattern we've followed for a long time now. Sold the oldest vehicle in the fleet not long ago. They end up going out the door with ~350,000 km and 15-18 years old.

Something to think about if you're a small business owner and need a truck anyway.

That’s a hot tip, right there.

 

[wildmanyeah]

So now the accountant sees it... I registered the Lightning as a personal vehicle and bill the business for km driven. He just just got the paperwork via the bookkeeper and gave me a WTF phone call. Then I explained it's a fully electric truck and it costs $0.03/km to run. "Whoa! That changes everything!"

Umm, yeah. CRA rates for reimbursement of personal vehicle use is $0.68/km for the first 5000 km, $0.62/km thereafter. Will bring me $12-13K a year, tax free. Energy costs about $750. So all the finance payments are covered, and some of the ICBC as well. Truck is literally paying for itself.

At the end of the finance period I can sell the truck to my business at reasonable market price. Another way to move a few bucks from business to personal without major tax implications. Get something new then and carry on, same pattern we've followed for a long time now. Sold the oldest vehicle in the fleet not long ago. They end up going out the door with ~350,000 km and 15-18 years old.

Something to think about if you're a small business owner and need a truck anyway.

do you charge your business a portion of your home charging?

 

[sly_karma]

do you charge your business a portion of your home charging?

If I'd made it a business-owned vehicle, yes. But since I elected to set it up as a personal vehicle, then personal funds pay for all running costs and maintenance. When it reverts to business owned, I'll bill quarterly for electricity cost. I chose the home charger I bought mostly because it had good tracking and reporting of charging costs. Easy to download weekly/monthly/annual reports showing whatever metrics you want.

 

[sly_karma]

My biggest complaint regarding BCHydro is the two tier pricing they have. We have electric heat and no option for gas, we also have a heat pump and a plug in hybrid. Even before the PHEV we were always into the second tier pricing even with a heat pump, simply because you can’t heat a family home electrically without getting into their higher rate.

Have a good look at their off peak option - if BCUC approves it. It's opt-in only, so you can make sure it's right for you before signing up.

BC Hydro proposal

 

[wildmanyeah]

If I'd made it a business-owned vehicle, yes. But since I elected to set it up as a personal vehicle, then personal funds pay for all running costs and maintenance. When it reverts to business owned, I'll bill quarterly for electricity cost. I chose the home charger I bought mostly because it had good tracking and reporting of charging costs. Easy to download weekly/monthly/annual reports showing whatever metrics you want.

Your business is paying your business KM thought out to a specific rate tho then as it’s a personal vehicle. So how is there savings to the business, unless your not paying you the same rate as if you had a gas vehicle

 

[sly_karma]

Your business is paying your business KM thought out to a specific rate tho then as it’s a personal vehicle. So how is there savings to the business, unless your not paying you the same rate as if you had a gas vehicle

What the business pays me in km equates to the finance payments and half of the insurance. If it was a fully business owned vehicle there'd be that amount anyway, plus another $6500-7000 a year in gas and oil changes. The business is in front by about $700 a month in cashflow. True that there's the GST not claimed ($4000) and depreciation over 5 years.

In 6 years they'll get a nice used electric truck for a decent price with full ownership history disclosed. I get to move some money each month from the corp to my personal account without tax to pay, any business owner loves finding ways to do that.

 

[sly_karma]

Personal opinion here, but I think electricity consumers get a better deal in BC than in many other jurisdictions. My family and friends back in Australia are crazy jealous that I pay only 11 cents/kWh; their rates are in the 28-35 cent range thanks to privatisation and aging generation infrastructure. Yes, they can shop around for different providers, but they're all 2-3 times more than what we pay here. And it's largely dirty power, over 50% coal, although this is starting to fall as they move more to renewables. They can opt for a "clean power" product from their supplier, but at a price premium.

It's not surprising then that Australia has the highest uptake of residential solar power in the world. They get lots of sunshine and essentially no snow. Price discounts for off-peak power use have been around since I were a lad, but a combination of government incentives and falling prices for solar panels has caused a shift to home solar so large that the utilities no longer pay homeowners for their feed-in power - at peak times, they sometimes have too much solar! My brother always tries to charge his EV on his work from home days to take advantage of the free solar power.

Yes it's true that in BC we have no alternate power suppliers, but at least we consumers have BCUC watching the utilities and making them justify their price increases before implementing them. We supposedly have lots of competition between the various fossil fuel suppliers, but we all know how that's turned out. Liquid fuels should have been under the purview of BCUC decades ago, same as natural gas, electricity and phone service. Only lobbying kept it away from that scrutiny, and it's cost us billions.

Hydro was hamstrung by a series of government decisions in the first decade of this century when it should have been building more capacity. Site C should have been built years ago. Now it's catch up time. Same as when you don't spend annual amount on vehicle maintenance, you usually end up paying the equivalent of 3 or 4 years' worth in one shot. A decade of using BC Hydro (and ICBC) like an ATM can't be just sucked up without effect.

 

[wildmanyeah]

Hydro was hamstrung by a series of government decisions in the first decade of this century when it should have been building more capacity. Site C should have been built years ago. Now it's catch up time. Same as when you don't spend annual amount on vehicle maintenance, you usually end up paying the equivalent of 3 or 4 years' worth in one shot. A decade of using BC Hydro (and ICBC) like an ATM can't be just sucked up without effect.

we don't have dams up and down the fraser like the columbia river does, some would look at that as a positive.

we have been very fortunate to have hydro power that's for sure. They can also be used as battery, when input from wind and solar is high you can pump water back into them, then in peak periods release the water.

 

[ziggy]

Have a good look at their off peak option - if BCUC approves it. It's opt-in only, so you can make sure it's right for you before signing up.

BC Hydro proposal

I don’t believe it addresses my concern. Essentially electric heat even with a heat pump puts you into tier two pricing.

 

[fish brain]

I don’t believe it addresses my concern. Essentially electric heat even with a heat pump puts you into tier two pricing.

With the Ford Lightning you have the option to supply power back to your house. With a bit of planning on when you use your most energy intensive appliances, you can use the truck to balance the loads and stay out of tier two pricing.
Here is an article explaining a couple of the ways V2L or Bi Directional Charging can be beneficial. https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/02/07/ev-battery-power-your-home/

 

[Corey_lax]

With the Ford Lightning you have the option to supply power back to your house. With a bit of planning on when you use your most energy intensive appliances, you can use the truck to balance the loads and stay out of tier two pricing.

Just gonna drain your truck so you can top it off later? I don’t think that’s the intention