Downrigger Cable Voltage

[Part Timer]

They never really had to 'market' the Black Box.

As soon as it caught on from the commie fleet, sporties were lining up to buy one.

They were lining up for a reason.......


Malcolm Russell was the guy behind the Black Box......Scotty was just his builder.


The boat hull itself will be negative charge......the wire will be positive charge.......


From page 50 of the Tech book:-

(Q) How does the black box actually increase or decrease the voltage all the way up and down the wire?

(a) The Black Box is NOT actually adding or subtracting volatge from the wire.
The Black Box works by altering the rate or level of natural electrolysis that your boat and downrigger wires generate.


Since the hull is a negative charge and the wire is a positive charge......the addition of any other annodes on the line itself, such as connecting to a lead ball via metal clip, will create a disruption in the charge field.

Ideally you would want a fully insulated ball when using a black box.

Actually the electrical current research on Salmon was conducted at the University of Oregon. Malcolm Russell involved and from that research the black box was developed, like you say. It was first installed in the commercial fleet. Then the sports guy's started installing them, myself included. In the early days of using it we were not clear on things like attracting fish or how the distance from cable to flasher affected the current.

I do know from personal experience that a boat with faulty electrical will not catch fish. I had Malcolm go through it and check things out and we never did get the boat fishing over a period of 2 years. That boat was sold and I again had Malcolm set up my new boat with a Black Box and he also went through all the wiring and tied everything into a bonded ground. Since that time, I've had no problem catching fish and when bringing them in for the net, they approach the boat from both sides and the back without any sign of discomfort with the electrical field.

I do trailer my boat and prior to putting in the water, the zincs are cleaned with a stainless brush. Also I've used both the rubber snubbers between the cable and ball as well as the steel clip direct. Both ways seem to equally catch fish. For me, I only care that the boat is fishing. Not worried about all the research and reasoning. It costs me a little cash to have Mr. Russell keep my boat fishing, in reality though its a small cost compared to fuel and supplies to fish the west coast.

 

[Part Timer]

All I asked in the first place was what kind of a voltage can a person expect without a black box, and I guess an ungrounded kicker????
It had nothing to do with braid, and or if a black box is required.
Lure-washer

Your voltage could be anywhere on the scale. You need to get out of the marina and set your cannon balls down a few feet then take a reading. You want to be below .700 and as close as you can get to .600. If you can get into that area with zincs and good grounding of things like running lights, kicker, trim tabs and leg. You will catch fish just fine without a black box.

Like Sea Fever said, if caught fish seem to repel away from your boat you are putting out the wrong voltage. You will catch fish during the major bites, but will hurt during scratch fishing conditions.

 

[RCA Dog]

^^^^^
This.
I started a thread on what happens when a black box does not work right. You need to test in fishing conditions. Marinas are not good because you could be near some other 'hot boat'. I don't think having too low of a voltage will repel fish, but I am convinced that having too high of a voltage definately does repel fish. Good that you found the ground between the kicker and the battery, but if that connection is in that condition, what about the other ground connections in the boat ? What about zincs ? Check the whole system. It's worthwhile to do anyway, it can help you stop problems (not just fishing related) before they start.

 

[Seafever]

LureWasher.......right....but....you did say you had a loose connection on your black box in your opening post.....

which of course paves the way for tangents in all directions from a literal standpoint......

No thread is ever a single train track........they always end up like Grand Central Station....

If your boat is electric start, the engine should be grounded to the hull. Regardless of whether the kicker is or isn't grounded.
If you are trolling with the kicker and the leg of the main engine is in the water......no problem.

You need the zincs from your main to be in the water. If the mainleg and zinc is not in the water when you are trolling with the kicker......then the kicker needs to be grounded to the hull and the kicker needs to have it's own zinc underwater.

Doing this you should get a natural reading between .7 and .9 on your lines .
.9 is a tad high though.

If you are say .75 at the surface on both lines and you are fishing 180ft to 200ft deep....the "voltage" will have dropped off at the bottom end of the lines to probably arouund .65 or so....which is good for Chinook.

This is assuming you are not using your black box.

 

[wolf]

Oh people thought because they wernt catching fish it had to be the boat!!!! WRONG .... many went and bought these "black boxes" all to find it didnt help.!!!!

Many years a go Mr Russell would come down to the marina before the JDF and make a killing checking peoples boats...he asked me if I wanted mine checked ... Nope i said but thank you ...my boat is bang on fishing... he had a perplexed look on his face as i dont think he was ever turned away lol. so i invited him over for a pop and he asked me some questions and WHY i had certain things on my boat etc he said well I can see you have figured it out how did you know what to do???? it was and old commie guy who when I was younger he told me of how to tinker with zincs and metals on a boat but he made me look and figure it out on my own.

There is definitely certain thing you can do to lower/increase the current on a boat big thing is GROUNDS I have many on the boat and some even doubled grounded. And the best way to check is when you have your VHF on your fishfinder on kicker going gear down everything that you do fishing so check it while your out fishing.

Also you have to take into consideration everyday is going to be different so check often as the water is always changing. rain. fishing near creeks /fresh water different warm currents is etc all have varying results on how it will effect your boat.


Good luck Wolf

 

[Seafever]

right.......the black box is not a "cure-all" for catching fish.

In the process of installing one, it is the last thing you need to be concerned about.

The Hull of the boat acts as a negative charge.......and the wire lines act as a positive charge with or without the black box. This produces "voltage"

The black box is simply the controller.

But you need all your ducks in a row before you use it.

In a perfect world there would be a nice negative charge on the hull and a nice positive charge on the lines and everybody lives happily ever after.

Things that upset the applecart:-

(1) Leaking electrical voltage on the hull from:- as Wolf said, badly grounded fittings,wires, pumps and whatever else is on the boat and leaks stray voltage. This stray voltage messes up the negative charge on the hull.
Good grounding of electrical equipment is important. Which is why they recommend a bonding wire.

(2) Too many things going to a grounding wire that is overloaded. Seperate grounding wires could be necessary for certain equip.

(3) Bad zincs......all zincs should be in good shape and clean.

(4) The hull and the lines act like a battery........a positive side and a negative side.....this is what creates the controllable "voltage". When you have stray voltage leaking into the water, badly grounded equip, bad zincs etc.etc. , the equation cannot work correctly.

The addition of more zincs by the half dozen all over the hull and at the end of the wires does not fix the afore mentioned problems at all.......it simply creates more "hotspots" that can't be controlled by the black box.

The hull, the engines, the zincs, the wires, the black box are ALL one integrated system.

Any weak link in the chain could spell trouble.

Even if you aren't running a black box but ARE running wires.......the same rule is still in effect.

The hull is the negative charge and the wires are the positive charge.

So the first thing is:- you need to check your boat for electrical leaks, bad grounds and stray voltage as well as well grounded engines and bad zincs. If these conditions exist.....the black box will not help you until they're fixed.

 

[Seafever]

One time, when I had wires on both sides.......I disconnected the black box on one side and just shot voltage through one side.......to see if it made any difference.

I was unable to tell whether it was a good way to test it or not. That day I got skunked, for salmon...

I'm not sure whether running the box on one side only when you have two wires down, messes up the voltage on the non-powered side or not.

It will work if you have braid on one side tho'

 

[Karma-Kazi]

Im a braid guy and have been for years. Never had a random break off. And Seem to catch plenty of springs.

The way it was explained to me is with braid you have to find the springs. With wire they find you (If its set right)

-KK

 

[Seafever]

I don't like braid or wire.......I've just used both because there was no other choice really.......