Climate: LNG in B.C. vs Alberta tarsands

[Whole in the Water]

"I applaud your ideals and I'll come with you if you go first. Your continual denial of any benefits to society as a whole from these industries shows just how far from reality your opinion is, fortunately you have no real power in the decision making process. As long as people like you are unwilling to give up consumption the product will be produced, you are the system not just some members working in the oil and gas industry.

The first thing you should do is drop the high horse riding self righteous attitude and check back in with reality. Or just keep doing nothing, counting your money from your perfectly ethical retirement portfolio earned in a perfectly ethical way while copying and pasting **** here. You live in a glass house."

So what is your solution 3x5? You admit you are part of the problem as most of us are. Should we just except the way things are and pay the consequences in the future for our short-sighted, selfish, unsustainable attitudes and actions? You get upset at what you call the self-righteous, hypocrites complaining about the 'system'. You seem to be saying just shut up and accept things the way they are unless we are all willing to live in a cave and eat raw vegetables. Do you have a ideas for improving things or are you just trying to justify the way things are by saying you will change after everyone else does?

 

[GLG]

What can we do to take personal responsibility for our GHG footprint?
The first step is to have a goal and then turn it into a plan.
It's all about energy conservation and efficiency
Here is the good news first.....

NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate Release

June 30, 2014 Ministry of Environment
B.C. achieves greenhouse gas emissions target
VICTORIA – British Columbia has reached its first greenhouse gas emissions reduction target of 6% below 2007 levels by 2012 as set out in the Province’s Climate Action Plan.
“We take great pride in this important milestone,” said Environment Minister Mary Polak. “When we first launched our Climate Action Plan there was a lot of scepticism that we could achieve this first interim target, but we did. We know our plan is working, because GHG emissions are down while our GDP and population are up. Yes, we have more to do to bring our emissions down further, and we will do what it takes to reach our long-term goals. The Premier has made it clear that British Columbia will continue to be an international leader and driver of innovation in climate action.”
Climate Action in British Columbia: 2014 Progress Report includes discussion of the 2012 interim target and how it was achieved, adaptation actions and practical outcomes of climate action for British Columbians.
Government also released the British Columbia Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report for 2012, which provides the technical basis for assessing progress toward targets.
In addition, the B.C. government was carbon neutral in 2013 for the fourth year in a row, as confirmed in the Carbon Neutral Government: Year in Review 2013 report.
“Climate leadership starts with government taking care of its own house,” said Polak. “We are still the only state or province in North America to be carbon neutral – proof positive that climate action remains a top priority for our government.”
Government also released the Industrial Facility Greenhouse Gas Emissions Report Summaries for 2013, which report data for all industrial facilities in B.C. emitting more than 10,000 tonnes of greenhouse gases annually.
Learn More:
To view the 2014 Progress Report: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=9DF88AF901A14DE59BF3CF4B8A6B17EB
To view the British Columbia Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report for 2012: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=50B908BE85E0446EB6D3C434B4C8C106
To view the Carbon Neutral Government: Year in Review 2013 report: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=B4071C74EEC04BF5B131A5B0573F4A64
To view the Industrial Facility Greenhouse Gas Emissions Report Summaries for 2013: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=14C1FA7186124D1C8CABA452C9DFCA56


So there you have it. we reached our first goal of 6% below 2007 levels by 2012.
Our next goal is 18% below 2007 levels by 2016.
How do we get there?
First we need to look at where we use energy and use (18%-6%) 12% less going forward.

Transportation
Need a new car? Why not consider one that gets 20-25% or better fuel mileage.
Consider public transportation if that is a option for you.
Drive less and plan your trips so that you get more done each trip.
Keep your tires at proper inflation.
Learn the driving tips to save fuel (light acceleration and speed limits)
What am I doing?
New car for the wife that get's better then 4l per 100 km, that's 3 times better then her old one.
Me .... looking right now at new truck to haul the boat - Dodge 1500 eco-diesel around 10l per 100 km city / 7l per 100 km hyway. Till them I'm driving less or using the wife's car.
Boat.... Now that's going to be tough because mine is 2005 so I guess it's less fishing.
Options:
Fish closer to home not so many trips less fuel per trip.
Fish with friends, increase how many are on the boat, less fuel per person.
Invest in an electric kicker when its time to replace the current one.
Offset fuel from car, truck or house like a personal cap and trade system.

Home
replace appliances when due to Energy star appliances.
Widow, door and Insulation upgrades.
Replace oil or gas furnace to heat pump or gas / heat pump hybrid.
Programmable thermostat to take control of when you heat your house.
What am I doing?
Currently my house is all electric and upgrades have been done.
My plan is to sell in the next few years and build or renovate our next house that will be half the size.
I will be looking to go as close to net zero as I can using electricity only.

Personal
Buy local where every and when every possible.
Buy quality so that it lasts longer (that's harder then you think)
Reduce my beef consumption (tip from 3X5)
Computers.... Another tough one for me as I have to do upgrades again.
I wish i could go to a smart phone for everything but I can't at this point.
Speak up and keep pushing industry to get with the program and call them out if their slackers.

Funny thing is I know people that are opposed to reducing GHG and even the facts of AGW. But when you sit down with them and add up their past and current energy use you find they have meet or beat there personal targets. Simple things like upgrading their transportation because its time and the new vehicle is more fuel efficient. Renovating their house with new windows and doors for comfort reasons that bring down heating bills. Switching their lights to led or cfl to save money. Recycling because it's the right thing to do. Low hanging fruit I know but that's the first step on the path we have to take.

 

[GLG]

It's about a gigantic system that you are as much a part of as I am. I've put challenges to you before about ideas for global energy sources and funding for the new hospitals that will take care of your old bones or any government programs and you come back with zero and deflections.

Alberta tried that path to fund medical with oil money. It's not working out for them.
Health Care should be funded by tax payers the ones that use it not O&G royalties.
I would prefer that we use resource royalties for things like fighting forest fires.
How about things like flood control and cleanup after.
Repairing damage from problems caused by past resource development where companies have gone belly up.
How about investing in the next generation with money for education.
The next generation is our most important asset and we seem to want to short change them.

Whats the answer to global energy problem?
Electric energy..... created as clean as possible without increasing fossil fuel consumption.
Conservation and efficiency of the fossil fuel we currently produce.
No more expanding of the fossil fuel industry without equal carbon capture and sequestration.

Use the free market to find solutions to our problems by putting a price on CO2
Make it a revenue neutral carbon tax that everyone pays no exceptions.

Explore Cap and trade where Industry has no chance to lower it's carbon footprint and has shown that it has done all possible things to lower it's footprint.

Question for you 3X5
Do you work for Spectra Energy Transmission?

 

[walleyes]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cody-battershill/leonardo-dicaprio-fort-mcmurray_b_5712725.html

http://www.capp.ca/getdoc.aspx?DocId=249637&DT=NTV

 

[GDW]

I thought I read a few pages back your done with this thread walleyes?

 

[GDW]

But again I will leave this section it just gets me to riled up,, lots of good people on here our worlds are just too far apart on some subjects.

Carry on my friend..

Here it is... Can't you keep your word? Been about 4 posts from you per page since then your "leaving this section" lasted less then 12 hours.

 

[Whole in the Water]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cody-battershill/leonardo-dicaprio-fort-mcmurray_b_5712725.html

http://www.capp.ca/getdoc.aspx?DocId=249637&DT=NTV

and your point is.....?

 

[triplenickel]

Other countries will little or no oil reserves are developing the expertise for alternative energy sources - and making profits doing this - but we seem to be stuck in this little cocoon of blaming FNs, hippies, and other people for being "lazy" and not attending shareholder meetings in affecting change in this scenario.

Is that really how you see the world 3x5?

Obviously not, I'm really not sure how you got to that conclusion.

You also assume that we as individuals have the opportunities you currently enjoy - like extra money for becoming share holders and mutual fund holders. There is also an implicit assumption that we should all be ok with supporting that system - even if we had the extra money to do so.

Compared to my world and my experience - you live in a world with many more advantages than I enjoy, 3x5. I also understand that I live in a world with many more opportunities than most of the rest of the population of the planet.

So - NO - emphatically - NO - we do not own nor control the system.

Waaa waa waa, whoa is me. We don't control the system but we all control our lives. Most people are where they are due to past and present choices. Maybe I've currently got a better job than you but don't think for a second anyone in the "system" gave it to me. I've worked hard and made the sacrifices and decisions to make it happen, I don't expect anyone to do anything for me.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean when you say "becoming share holders and mutual fund holders" but all I mean is basic RRSP's, TFSA's and the like just simple stuff. Not multi million dollar deals so one can sit on a board. If people can't afford to be buying RRSP's then do you really think they're going to embrace the extra costs involved with alternative energies? I chuckle about people saying they can't afford to save for their future as they smoke, drink, and finance any toy they can. It's about priorities.

You're coming across as quite angry with the system with constant referrals to how the government doesn't do enough. What do you do for a living, what's your education level and age?

 

[triplenickel]

"I applaud your ideals and I'll come with you if you go first. Your continual denial of any benefits to society as a whole from these industries shows just how far from reality your opinion is, fortunately you have no real power in the decision making process. As long as people like you are unwilling to give up consumption the product will be produced, you are the system not just some members working in the oil and gas industry.

The first thing you should do is drop the high horse riding self righteous attitude and check back in with reality. Or just keep doing nothing, counting your money from your perfectly ethical retirement portfolio earned in a perfectly ethical way while copying and pasting **** here. You live in a glass house."

So what is your solution 3x5? You admit you are part of the problem as most of us are. Should we just except the way things are and pay the consequences in the future for our short-sighted, selfish, unsustainable attitudes and actions? You get upset at what you call the self-righteous, hypocrites complaining about the 'system'. You seem to be saying just shut up and accept things the way they are unless we are all willing to live in a cave and eat raw vegetables. Do you have a ideas for improving things or are you just trying to justify the way things are by saying you will change after everyone else does?

Not most of us, all of us. You're really stretching my words when I say shut up and accept things. I'm saying if people want a reward whatever it may be they need to give something in return, not many are willing. I think we need to look at the big picture, evaluate whether certain projects are good for society as a whole and make the small personal changes necessary to make them a reality. There is no free ride, if an individual stands to gain any uptick, something else is always given in exchange. Everyone expects everything to keep rolling along with the good rolling in but isn't willing to do what's needed on a personal level to keep a balance.

 

[triplenickel]

and your point is.....?

You really didn't get it? What he's saying is Canada is pretty good at what it does and we're constantly evolving, trying to make it better for all stake holders.

 

[triplenickel]

What can we do to take personal responsibility for our GHG footprint?
The first step is to have a goal and then turn it into a plan.
It's all about energy conservation and efficiency
Here is the good news first.....

NEWS RELEASE
For Immediate Release

June 30, 2014 Ministry of Environment
B.C. achieves greenhouse gas emissions target
VICTORIA – British Columbia has reached its first greenhouse gas emissions reduction target of 6% below 2007 levels by 2012 as set out in the Province’s Climate Action Plan.
“We take great pride in this important milestone,” said Environment Minister Mary Polak. “When we first launched our Climate Action Plan there was a lot of scepticism that we could achieve this first interim target, but we did. We know our plan is working, because GHG emissions are down while our GDP and population are up. Yes, we have more to do to bring our emissions down further, and we will do what it takes to reach our long-term goals. The Premier has made it clear that British Columbia will continue to be an international leader and driver of innovation in climate action.”
Climate Action in British Columbia: 2014 Progress Report includes discussion of the 2012 interim target and how it was achieved, adaptation actions and practical outcomes of climate action for British Columbians.
Government also released the British Columbia Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report for 2012, which provides the technical basis for assessing progress toward targets.
In addition, the B.C. government was carbon neutral in 2013 for the fourth year in a row, as confirmed in the Carbon Neutral Government: Year in Review 2013 report.
“Climate leadership starts with government taking care of its own house,” said Polak. “We are still the only state or province in North America to be carbon neutral – proof positive that climate action remains a top priority for our government.”
Government also released the Industrial Facility Greenhouse Gas Emissions Report Summaries for 2013, which report data for all industrial facilities in B.C. emitting more than 10,000 tonnes of greenhouse gases annually.
Learn More:
To view the 2014 Progress Report: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=9DF88AF901A14DE59BF3CF4B8A6B17EB
To view the British Columbia Greenhouse Gas Inventory Report for 2012: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=50B908BE85E0446EB6D3C434B4C8C106
To view the Carbon Neutral Government: Year in Review 2013 report: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=B4071C74EEC04BF5B131A5B0573F4A64
To view the Industrial Facility Greenhouse Gas Emissions Report Summaries for 2013: http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/topic.page?id=14C1FA7186124D1C8CABA452C9DFCA56


So there you have it. we reached our first goal of 6% below 2007 levels by 2012.
Our next goal is 18% below 2007 levels by 2016.
How do we get there?
First we need to look at where we use energy and use (18%-6%) 12% less going forward.

Transportation
Need a new car? Why not consider one that gets 20-25% or better fuel mileage.
Consider public transportation if that is a option for you.
Drive less and plan your trips so that you get more done each trip.
Keep your tires at proper inflation.
Learn the driving tips to save fuel (light acceleration and speed limits)
What am I doing?
New car for the wife that get's better then 4l per 100 km, that's 3 times better then her old one.
Me .... looking right now at new truck to haul the boat - Dodge 1500 eco-diesel around 10l per 100 km city / 7l per 100 km hyway. Till them I'm driving less or using the wife's car.
Boat.... Now that's going to be tough because mine is 2005 so I guess it's less fishing.
Options:
Fish closer to home not so many trips less fuel per trip.
Fish with friends, increase how many are on the boat, less fuel per person.
Invest in an electric kicker when its time to replace the current one.
Offset fuel from car, truck or house like a personal cap and trade system.

Home
replace appliances when due to Energy star appliances.
Widow, door and Insulation upgrades.
Replace oil or gas furnace to heat pump or gas / heat pump hybrid.
Programmable thermostat to take control of when you heat your house.
What am I doing?
Currently my house is all electric and upgrades have been done.
My plan is to sell in the next few years and build or renovate our next house that will be half the size.
I will be looking to go as close to net zero as I can using electricity only.

Personal
Buy local where every and when every possible.
Buy quality so that it lasts longer (that's harder then you think)
Reduce my beef consumption (tip from 3X5)
Computers.... Another tough one for me as I have to do upgrades again.
I wish i could go to a smart phone for everything but I can't at this point.
Speak up and keep pushing industry to get with the program and call them out if their slackers.

Funny thing is I know people that are opposed to reducing GHG and even the facts of AGW. But when you sit down with them and add up their past and current energy use you find they have meet or beat there personal targets. Simple things like upgrading their transportation because its time and the new vehicle is more fuel efficient. Renovating their house with new windows and doors for comfort reasons that bring down heating bills. Switching their lights to led or cfl to save money. Recycling because it's the right thing to do. Low hanging fruit I know but that's the first step on the path we have to take.

I like this, some good ideas in there, actual ideas not vague campaign style empty babble such as;
"to use and foster the development in British Columbia of innovative technologies that support energy conservation and efficiency and the use of clean or renewable resources;".

I'm not sure I agree with the whole getting a new vehicle thing as a net reduction over proper driving and maintenance of an existing vehicle. There's a massive footprint associated with the production of said vehicle, right from the mineral extraction to the importing or all the components needed. Then there's the whole putting another vehicle on the road problem. None of these things were grown on a not for profit free range organic cooperative on Denman. Even the argument about an actual net savings is often a false economy, the $10k it's gonna cost to upgrade a pickup would likely buy you at least a decades worth of fuel.

Personally I keep older stuff in good order and on the road. 2000 Buick, low 30mpg's consistently. 92 GM gas pot as a tow vehicle, less than $100 a month in fuel constantly in the 15mpg range with my driving habits. But 98% of my driving and errand running is on a 1982 Honda 70 scooter! lol 130mpg all day long if I ride lots I might put in $5 a month. Boat powered by a 90 Honda, $30-$50 per fishing day as good as it gets for a salt ready boat. Quit eating beef and dairy 3 years ago.

I don't work for Spectra although they do transport our product. I'm right at the well head not a mid streamer. Why do you ask about them specifically? If you use gas in your home Spectra is the company that brings it to the lower mainland, so they supply you.

FYI I left the oil patch 30 years ago and have no investments in it.
Consulting in IT for Property Management is where I did well.

If you earned an income in Alberta I'd guess it's about a 98% chance your dollar started as a petro dollar. Property management eh, who do you think your customers were? Who do you think was buying and renting the properties? Where do you think the electrician, cook at BP, grocery store stock boy, car salesman, accountant got their money from? You were and indirect benefactor of the industry, you can't deny it. You've said "follow the money" a couple times so lets play that game. Tell me your 3 top performing funds and lets dissect them and see exactly where the money is, maybe not CNRL or the like directly but I'll wager a significant sum you're only a couple steps away.

From what I see in industry we're not slackers we do everything we can to make it better every single day, in this company at least. No one is in business to lose money and not reducing costs business big time, putting it into the atmosphere instead of a pipeline is totally contradictory to why we do it. I'm all for reducing GHG but just stopping projects isn't the answer. The handful of LNG plants proposed for BC are a drop in the bucket globally and will bring more positives to BC than the few things we'd give in exchange to keep a balance will cost. Canada is a resource extracting country and every dollar starts as one or another. Follow the money.

 

[triplenickel]

I think the people posting here are the minority, the few that care enough to think about the issues and become aware.

 

[walleyes]

and your point is.....?

My point is this.

In prior posts Hypocrisy has been brought up well there are no bigger hypocrites than the people you all use as your leaders and voices. They are pigs when it comes to consuming goods yet you all follow them blindly and what ever they say must be true. Wake up,, they are sucking you in and using you to further line their pockets just as the band wagon scientist that are gobbling up funded money doing climate change research,, it's a cash cow.. No one doubts the fact that we as humans have an impact on our environment of course we do what we dispute is the long range impact it's having or will have. Yes we can always get better and we are on that track,, but as a couple of my posts I showed a while back,, this dooming Armageddon that is always hung onto everything is false. Are you all that blind and inexperienced to know that it has to be tragic to extract money from you,, moderacy doesn't make money. Climate change has been happening since the dawn of times it's a natural occurrence.

My second point is this. Canada and Alberta are the leaders in the world when it comes to environmental stewardship and in ovation in extracting hydrocarbons of any kind wether it be Natural gas, light oil or Heavy oil. Our methods are world renowned. Our people are sought after around the world to go teach and run operations. If we were to shut down all the operations all you hypocrites are screaming about where on Gods green earth do you think all the energy and products it takes to run your world would come from. It would come from countries that have a total disregard for any environmental rules, countries that are trying this very day to take your freedom from you, countries that use slave labour to extract those products. I just can't rap my head around the fact you all don't see this. Rather than trying to force this on our society why aren't you out there promoting our product to the world. We should proud of what we do here in Canada, I know I am but I have a better understanding of the process than you do and you are to ignorant to learn. By shutting down our own home grown operations how in the world do you all think this would help the environment. The reality is it would have the exact opposite effect. Next time you all leave the house look around you, our world operates on hydrocarbon based products your streets are cramped with vehicles your freeways are stuffed with vehicles, we live in a plastic world all this from hydrocarbons, where is the energy to run all this going to come from if we shut down our operations. Think about this..

And P.S. I decided to come back and post again,, so get over it..

 

[agentaqua]

they are sucking you in and using you to further line their pockets just as the band wagon scientist that are gobbling up funded money doing climate change research,, it's a cash cow..

Interesting and enlightening reaction you are having Walleyes. Thank you for sharing the lies the industry tells itself to justify that perspective. Here is a link to the salaries that the oil executives get paid: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/12/Oil_Gas_Operations_Rank_1.html

You can see that the salaries are in the $ millions.

Here is a link to what PhDs get: http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Degree=Doctorate_(PhD)/Salary

You can see that it is in the range of $40k to $200K. Some cash cow, eh?

What is your salary?

Climate change has been happening since the dawn of times it's a natural occurrence

That is the real issue here, Walleyes. Yes, global warming has been happening for millions of years - caused by high CO2 levels - which killed off over 90% of life on this planet. Do you really want to go there - especially when we can avoid it?

 

[tincan]

I've got a sneaking suspicion that many of those climate change deniers will also not agree with your graph that goes back in time longer than 6,000 years

Interesting and enlightening reaction you are having Walleyes. Thank you for sharing the lies the industry tells itself to justify that perspective. Here is a link to the salaries that the oil executives get paid: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/12/Oil_Gas_Operations_Rank_1.html

You can see that the salaries are in the $ millions.

Here is a link to what PhDs get: http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Degree=Doctorate_(PhD)/Salary

You can see that it is in the range of $40k to $200K. Some cash cow, eh?

What is your salary?

That is the real issue here, Walleyes. Yes, global warming has been happening for millions of years - caused by high CO2 levels - which killed off over 90% of life on this planet. Do you really want to go there - especially when we can avoid it?

 

[agentaqua]

I've got a sneaking suspicion that many of those climate change deniers will also not agree with your graph that goes back in time longer than 6,000 years

Maybe, tincan. That'd open-up another thread - I think.

 

[walleyes]

Why does it always go back to salaries for you,,what is it about people making more than you that bothers you so much. I honestly think it's more jealousy with you than it is about the environment. Someone makes money so they must be dishonest right.. I don't need these graphs and charts I just use them because you guys need them. When someone tries to give you their perspective or their knowledge on these issues you discredit it because some scientist that is getting paid to come up with an answer people want him to come up with you hold onto that graph like it's your life. I don't need these graphs I am on the front lines of these companies, I am one of the people that extract these products I know what our guidelines are, I know why happens when we fail to meet them, I know the cost, I know how hard we try to do our best to keep our surroundings clean. But you wont listen to me or the others on here trying to enlighten you, we are all liars we must be cause we have a different idea than you, some of us make our living there so we are liars. Well I'm not a liar what I am is a man paid to hold up the law a man that lives and breathes the outdoors and the environment. A man that gets probably 75% of my food from the wild or local farms a man that in this day and age quite literally lives off the land as much as is possible but yet nope!! this doesn't qualify me as one who would know anything about any of this. Nope some scientist or burned out old hippie he knows what we are doing here,, not us.

If you people weren't such hypocrites I may take you serious. If you would sell your gas vehicles if you would sell your gas powered boats, if you would all quit buying all your food from plastic packages quit buying anything made of plastic then I may take you serious. Put your money where your yap is it's that simple,, don't slow it down just quit it. Buy an electric truck, buy an electric boat or paddle, or ride a bike support your line of thought. If there isn't a product you want invent or make it if not shut up. But wait if you all go electric we will need more power generation plants which means more rivers damned up, more carbon burning plants to supply it more wind turbines to cloud our skylines and kill thousands of birds a year what are you fools going to do.. Your night in shining armour on here old Englishman is the biggest hypocrite there is. I watched him this summer as I was out at Sunny Shores. The man fishes 3 or 4 times a week in his oil injected 2 stroke, hauls it out there in his early 90's gas gusling truck. Runs from Possession to Otter out to the tide line back in, trolls from one end of the area to the next 3 or 4 times a week yet he comes on here and tells people that others are to blame,, oh my God.. At least if the man would keep his boat there, just go out to the harbour front, run a 4 stroke engine make some sort of effort maybe I would take what he has to say as some what credible but no he's a hypocrite like the rest of you. Look around you all next time you leave the house,, your all hypocrites..

If you were all fighting for cleaner extraction methods, if you were insisting we made the best pipelines in the world which we are, if you were fighting to ensure these messes were cleaned up I would be behind you all cause you know what,, those are the things I fight for and I work the industry. But your not you want the industry shut down,, you don't want to sacrifice your way of life but yet you want me to change mine..

Ignorant, Foolish, Hypocrites the whole works of you.

 

[dabell]

Well written Walleyes.

 

[agentaqua]

Walleyes - the graph is not about how much CO2 the tar-sands emits. It's about mass extinction events verses historic CO2 levels. It is too bad that you have decided that you "don't need these graphs" because you are: "on the front lines of these companies". It really doesn't matter who employs either me or you, nor what our salaries are - this is a serious issue. Being employed by the pertochemical industry does not make you an expert on global warming any more than I am by burning the gasoline you provide. The data on CO2 levels is what matters.

Yes - I agree we should develop cleaner extraction AND transportation methods - where available - starting by NOT SHIPPING dillbit, and demanding info on fracking chemicals and groundwater contamination. Those are the 2 single biggest shorter-term issues I have with the petroleum industry - CO2 levels being the biggest and centered on consumption and less so on extraction - but with potentially longer-term effects/risks.

The reason the salaries came-up is because you claimed that by somehow studying climate change and being concerned about these levels, somehow all scientists (except presumatively those employed by industry) do the research because they have a "cash cow", rather than admitting that the data generated by these studies is valid and is of sufficient concern that we should be proactive in decreasing our current CO2 emissions. When challenged on these assumptions you revert back to a rant about us being jealous of your salary rather than admitting you were wrong about the "cash cow" assumption.

If you believe in Capitalism - you shouldn't be against making money - even for those evil non-trustworthy climate scientists. That is why it could be perceived that you are the one who is in fact being hypocritical about climate scientists earning the whopping $40k to $200K (as compared to the industry spokespersons) - while STILL not acknowledging any of the points in the above posting.

AGAIN - I re-ask the question: Yes, global warming has been happening for millions of years - caused by high CO2 levels - which killed off over 90% of life on this planet. Do you really want to go there - especially when we can avoid it?

 

[walleyes]

AGAIN - I re-ask the question: Yes, global warming has been happening for millions of years - caused by high CO2 levels - which killed off over 90% of life on this planet. Do you really want to go there - especially when we can avoid it?

Not going to happen from humans emitting CO2 we will destroy this planet or most life on it from war or virus long before this will ever happen, you know it and I know it.

Again..

Ignorant, Foolish, hypocrites.