BC Provincial Election-I Voted Already

[Englishman]

I might be wrong but most people are not saying we should stop all natural resource practices its just the way its done that is the issue. Dont put fish farms on migration routes, dont allow raw log exports, dont ship raw bitumen, dont allow logging company's to monitor themselves,dont allow mines in highly ecological sensitive places. Our bc government should be fighting for the these things and the liberals support and go along with Ottawa doing whatever id told of them.

We all know and love what we have here we just dont want to see it exploited. I think thats what people feel are what the liberals are letting happen.

Exactly right fish stalker. For some on here if you say you are against the Northern Gateway, you are immediately branded with a dumb deluded right wing stereotype as a "granola chewing, birkenstock wearing, welfare bums" or some such inane comment.

Such people have not read the pipeline hearings. Over 1100 people spoke out against the pipeline and only 2 for! And if the cheer section for selling out the entire BC coast cared to read those oral submissions, they were from doctors, lawyers, whale watching business owners, tourism operators, engineers, seamen, and even a few oil men and dozens of ordinary working men and women!

http://gatewaypanel.review-examen.gc.ca/clf-nsi/prtcptngprcss/prvshrngtrnscrpt-eng.html

Liberals or no liberals, that damn pipeline will never be built because the people of BC, as represented by those 1100 people who took the trouble to stand up at the hearings, and the First Nations will see to that! And I will be fighting against it too. Our coast, our existing industries and our fish are far too important to who we are and to our culture and way of life to sell out to Alberta and China!

 

[jeffywestcoast]

Good thread people..Very thought provoking stuff.. i to believe the green party has an excellent stand on the environment , that being said they did not have a detailed plan for the economic growth of the province. I also do not support the gateway pipeline as the possibility of a spill could devastate the coastline.I have worked in the oilfield of Alberta for almost 10 years now , traveling to Alberta n back 18 times a year just so i can scratch out a sustainable living for my family. I would love nothing more then to find sustainable full-time employment in this province.. what we need is to create jobs here to bring back the thousands like myself forced into another province to make a living... Just not at the cost of this incredible environment.. if that is the cost i would rather keep traveling for work.

 

[GLG]

Ha ha you are a funny man, accusing me of pointing at pandas. The last four direct questions I asked you were ignored or in one case you posted a link that supported me! lol So I ask again is the province at a net loss with royalties? Or could it perhaps be an investment, you know where you put some money into something and get more back? You've harped on and on about this idea of yours that the province pays the oil companies to be here and have yet to support it.

Well lets have a look at the oil and gas sector here in BC. It's easy to find the revenue side of the claims that industry and government say they are contributing the the province. What is harder to find is what the expense side is. Most people know something about a balance sheet. There are two sides to it, revenue and expense. If we only look at the revenue side it looks like the oil & gas sector is contributing lot's of dough, problem is we never see what it cost to regulate and facilitate them here in the province. How much money is spent by the people here in BC to have these companies operating here? Do they take more then they give? Here is a link to just one small piece of the puzzle.
http://www.bcogc.ca/node/8019/download
Have a look at the balance sheet of the BC Oil & Gas Commission.

The continuing North American trend of natural gas oversupply and moderate demand growth has caused natural gas prices to drop to a 10-year low in 2011. Despite the commodity price challenge, natural gas drilling and production in B.C. has slightly exceeded the Commission’s projections for 2011/12. As a result, Commission operations were funded by production and pipeline levies of $31.1 million and fees of $12.2 million, with expenses totaling $37.2 million. The Annual Surplus of $7.1 million will be used to fund capital expenditures in the coming years.

So were told that industry contributes $43.3 million to the province and that sounds like a large contribution but we never here about what it costs the province to facilitate them. 2011 had a surplus of 7.1 million better then a loss but hardly a cash cow.

This is just one example of why I'm saying that all those numbers that are put out to the media on how much the O&G sector contributes to the economy can be very misleading.

Have a question for you .... Did you even read the report from IMF (world bank) about the subsides that are given to the energy sector? The article about the report calculated that every person in Canada give the energy sector $787 every year from our taxes above and beyond what we pay at the pump. http://www.carbon49.com/2013/04/the-real-price-we-pay-for-fossil-fuel-energy/
So for a family of four that would be over 3k per year.......
Yup go ahead and tell us how you industry is so good for the province and tell us how Gwen Morgan is such a wonderful guy..... Hope he can stay out of jail when the SNC Lavalin shyte hit's the fan.
http://www.snclavalin.com/news.php?lang=en&id=2055&action=press_release_details&paging=1&start=6

Following the decision of current Chairman, Gwyn Morgan, to retire from SNC-Lavalin’s Board at the 2013 AGM, the Company’s Corporate Governance Committee has recommended to the Board that Ian A. Bourne be appointed Chairman immediately following the AGM.

Yup we know how he rolls....... I bet he will come in handy as our leaders right hand man when deals need to be made with China and the federal government.

3nic not sure I know all your questions as I'm busy with smolts and fishing. So I can't research all the Royalty payola spin we have here in BC.... Don't think I can help you cut through all the BS around this industry. I'll let others decide, research and form there own ideas......
GLG

 

[Chero]

President of the NDP ...Moe enough said

 

[fish stalker]

I was going to type out a long answer but I think just reading about how the liberlals/christyclark/gordoncampell has done for bc is enough. See Below. Basically liberals were nothing from the 50's to Gorden Campbell. They werent in power so they couldnt do any wrong. The npd was in control for much of the boom of bc. Adrian Dix back dating a letter and moe sihota using his potions to get his friend a job and trying go get a limo licence. Cant find anything on Glen Clark other then he fights for environmental causes. Is nothing compared the straight up lies about bc rail, the privatizing of bc ferry's and closing of school and hospitals has been. There is a reason Gordon Campell was forced to quit, I guess Christy Clarks smile and big tits make people forget she is the same party (with mega ties to the federal conservatives which I didnt know about until tonight) whos responsible for all that.

Campbell's first term was also noted for fiscal austerity, including reductions in welfare rolls and some social services, deregulation, the sale of some government assets (in particular the "Fast ferries" built by the previous government, which were sold off for a fraction of their price). Campbell also initiated the privatization of BC Rail, which the Liberals had promised not to sell in order to win northern ridings which had rejected the party in 1996 but reversed this promise after election, with criminal investigations connected with the bidding process resulting in the BC Legislature Raids of 2003 and the ensuing and still-pending court case. There were several significant labour disputes, some of which were settled through government legislation but which included confrontations with the province's doctors. Campbell also downsized the civil service, with staff cutbacks of more than fifty percent in some government departments, and despite promises of smaller government the size of cabinet was nearly doubled and parliamentary salaries raised. Governance was also re-arranged such that Deputy Ministers were now to report to the Chief of Staff in the Premier's office, rather than to their respective ministers. In the course of the cuts, hospitals, courthouses and extended care facilities around the province were shut down, particularly in smaller communities, and enforcement staff such as the BC Conservation Service were reduced to marginal levels. Various provincial parks created during the previous NDP regime were also downgraded to protected area status, meaning they could be opened for resource exploitation, and fees for use of parks were raised.

In 2003, a drug investigation known as Operation Everwhichway led to raids on government offices in the British Columbia Parliament Buildings in relation to suspect dealings concerning the sale of BC Rail to CN in a scandal which has since become known as Railgate and the trial of four former ministerial aides for influence peddling, breach of trust and accepting bribes.

The Liberals were re-elected in the 2005 election with a reduced majority of 7 seats (46–33).

The Liberals were again re-elected in the 2009 election.

Shortly after this election the introduction of the HST was announced, contrary to promises made during the election campaign.
Christy Clark government: 2011–present

On November 3, 2010, facing an imminent caucus revolt over his management style and the political backlash against the Harmonized Sales Tax (HST) and the controversial end to the BC Rail corruption trial and with his approval rating as low as 9% in polls, Gordon Campbell announced his resignation.[11]

The party's 2011 leadership convention was prompted by Gordon Campbell's request to the party to hold a leadership convention "at the earliest possible date."[12] The convention elected Christy Clark as its new leader of the party on February 26, 2011.[13] Clark and her new Cabinet were sworn in on March 14.[14]

Under Clark the party charted a more centrist outlook while continuing its recent tradition of being a coalition of federal Liberal and federal Conservative supporters. Clark, who had previously worked for the Chrétien Liberals and had been married to federal Liberal party strategist Mark Marrissen at that time, had been a harsh critic of the federal Conservatives under Stephen Harper during the 2008 federal election. Clark is nevertheless closely associated with several notable Harper Conservatives. Former Harper pollster Dimitri Pantazopoulos became her principal secretary in 2011, and former federal Conservative Ken Boessenkool became her chief of staff in 2012. However, she earned the support of Reform Party of Canada founder Preston Manning as well as former federal Conservative cabinet ministers from BC Chuck Strahl and Stockwell Day. Manning famously invited her to a 2012 "conservative family reunion" in Ottawa, angering British Columbia Conservative Party supporters.[15][16] Recently, Clark appointed a series of Ontario Liberal and federal Liberal - linked political staffers to her office and senior campaign team while several staff tied to the Conservative Party were shuffled out or resigned.[17][18]


enough said.

 

[triplenickel]

Well lets have a look at the oil and gas sector here in BC. It's easy to find the revenue side of the claims that industry and government say they are contributing the the province. What is harder to find is what the expense side is. Most people know something about a balance sheet. There are two sides to it, revenue and expense. If we only look at the revenue side it looks like the oil & gas sector is contributing lot's of dough, problem is we never see what it cost to regulate and facilitate them here in the province. How much money is spent by the people here in BC to have these companies operating here? Do they take more then they give? Here is a link to just one small piece of the puzzle.
http://www.bcogc.ca/node/8019/download
Have a look at the balance sheet of the BC Oil & Gas Commission.


So were told that industry contributes $43.3 million to the province and that sounds like a large contribution but we never here about what it costs the province to facilitate them. 2011 had a surplus of 7.1 million better then a loss but hardly a cash cow.

This is just one example of why I'm saying that all those numbers that are put out to the media on how much the O&G sector contributes to the economy can be very misleading.

Have a question for you .... Did you even read the report from IMF (world bank) about the subsides that are given to the energy sector? The article about the report calculated that every person in Canada give the energy sector $787 every year from our taxes above and beyond what we pay at the pump. http://www.carbon49.com/2013/04/the-real-price-we-pay-for-fossil-fuel-energy/
So for a family of four that would be over 3k per year.......
Yup go ahead and tell us how you industry is so good for the province and tell us how Gwen Morgan is such a wonderful guy..... Hope he can stay out of jail when the SNC Lavalin shyte hit's the fan.
http://www.snclavalin.com/news.php?lang=en&id=2055&action=press_release_details&paging=1&start=6

Yup we know how he rolls....... I bet he will come in handy as our leaders right hand man when deals need to be made with China and the federal government.

3nic not sure I know all your questions as I'm busy with smolts and fishing. So I can't research all the Royalty payola spin we have here in BC.... Don't think I can help you cut through all the BS around this industry. I'll let others decide, research and form there own ideas......
GLG

I did read the link you posted and it was interesting, so thanks but it's not a complete picture. Like you say there's many sides to the balance sheet and us mortals have a hard time getting all the info especially if we question the motivation of the sources as most have an agenda to support. Your assertion that the province only gained $7.1 million though is ludacris and I'm sure you don't believe it any more than I it defies logic and reason. Here's another angle, fire up Google and search "2012 bc land sale revenue" and have a gander, if you're busy with fishing I'd assume you don't have time to fart around there ( I know I'd rather fish but I'm at work!) so I'll post the first link that comes up, I know nothing of this source but it matches most of the subsequent hits from the search.

http://www.kootenaycapital.com/in-the-news/july-20-2012-b-c-july-sale-draws-3-89-million/ Here's a couple high lights from the article so you don't have to wade through it;

The first three sales of 2012 in B.C. drew total bonus bids of $80.68 million, but the last four have produced only$6.86 million.

The July sale this week drew a total of $3.89 million in bonus bids on 5,129 hectares at an average of $759.35. Year-to-date, land sales have climbed to $87.54 million for 72,063 hectares at an average of $1,214.80.

To the same point in 2011, the government had collected $71.45 million on 86,643 hectares at an average of $824.70.

Now lets go back a bit further, check this one out;

In 2008, during the zenith of the shale gas land rush, the province attracted $2.66 billion in bonus bids at an average of $3,518.19. By 2011, revenue had fallen to a total of $222.68 million at an average of $1,162.63.

That's billions friend, with a B!!!

Here's the first sentence from the second search hit;

The British Columbia government kicked off its 2013 land sale schedule this week by attracting just under $10 million in bonus bids, less than one-third what it received a year ago.

I relize this isn't recurring revenue but god damn it's looks like a big boost to the province to me, and this my friend is how every single family in the province benefits. So I'll ask you the question for a third time, are you saying that the province is at a net loss from the energy industry? This one I'm asking for the second time, if not resource extraction what is driving the economic engine of this province?

If the answer to the first is no myself and millions of others who see it as a gain to the province have been fooled by one of the biggest hoaxes to ever be pulled off. What do you have against the energy industry, are you really so selfish that now that you've made your living from it you want it shut down to suit your current position in life? You say you wouldn't do it again but I bet you have no problem sleeping at night after you take your "dirty" money to the pump to fill up your boat and truck to go fishing. I don't really care for an answer to the last questions but I'd sure like to hear your thoughts on the ones that are bolded.

 

[triplenickel]

I need to clarify something from my last post the final paragraph is pretty ****** and came off different than intended, I could delete it but I'll just apologise instead. It can easily be read as a personal attack and at the time probably was but I don't have a problem with you GLG I don't even know you so I'm sorry for misdirecting my frustration at you. My frustration comes from people who are unwilling to admit that these industries come with benefits lots of benefits, anyone can see there's downsides heck there's even downsides to the almighty tourism operations and fishing guides. You don't have to dig very deep or think very hard to see them. I wish people would just admit that resource extraction is a necessary evil and stop biting the hand that feeds. For everyone who is a steadfastly opposed to these activities think it all the way through, follow the money you make and the life you lead to it's source. If this stuff dries up it isn't going to be the gas stations and grocery stores that take the biggest hits it will be the optional spending that does. That would be holidays and the $1000 days fishing in Tofino for tourists. Support industry, it butters everyone in this provinces bread that's fact.

PS; GLG I'd still be interested to hear yor thoughts on the 2 questions bolded above.

 

[Bag-Juan]

Yes, the NDP cooked there own goose, major mistake by the Dix man. oh well another 4 years of robbing the poor to give to the rich. Maybe they should get rid of the polls alltogether, and each party should have the same amount of money to run there campaign. To bad half the people would rather stay home and get high and play video games.

 

[Sitkaspruce]

Well lets have a look at the oil and gas sector here in BC. It's easy to find the revenue side of the claims that industry and government say they are contributing the the province. What is harder to find is what the expense side is. Most people know something about a balance sheet. There are two sides to it, revenue and expense. If we only look at the revenue side it looks like the oil & gas sector is contributing lot's of dough, problem is we never see what it cost to regulate and facilitate them here in the province. How much money is spent by the people here in BC to have these companies operating here? Do they take more then they give? Here is a link to just one small piece of the puzzle.
http://www.bcogc.ca/node/8019/download
Have a look at the balance sheet of the BC Oil & Gas Commission.

Gill

The OGC is a self funded Crown Corp that recieves it's funds from the CAPP (Canadian Association Petrolium Producers), plus the fee's that it collects from the access to the gas and oil. The Prov collects royalties from the companies when the gas is extracted and the gas that is sold to other companies. The only "Gov" person on the commission is the Minister of EnergyMines and Natural Gas and he sits on the board. The Commission enforces the Oil and Gas Activities Act along with the associated regulations. The other regulator is National Energy Board. The Gov does not give a budget to the Commission and what you have posted is strickly the Commission budget.

So were told that industry contributes $43.3 million to the province and that sounds like a large contribution but we never here about what it costs the province to facilitate them. 2011 had a surplus of 7.1 million better then a loss but hardly a cash cow.

This is just one example of why I'm saying that all those numbers that are put out to the media on how much the O&G sector contributes to the economy can be very misleading.

Have a question for you .... Did you even read the report from IMF (world bank) about the subsides that are given to the energy sector? The article about the report calculated that every person in Canada give the energy sector $787 every year from our taxes above and beyond what we pay at the pump. http://www.carbon49.com/2013/04/the-real-price-we-pay-for-fossil-fuel-energy/
So for a family of four that would be over 3k per year.......
Yup go ahead and tell us how you industry is so good for the province and tell us how Gwen Morgan is such a wonderful guy..... Hope he can stay out of jail when the SNC Lavalin shyte hit's the fan.
http://www.snclavalin.com/news.php?lang=en&id=2055&action=press_release_details&paging=1&start=6

Yup we know how he rolls....... I bet he will come in handy as our leaders right hand man when deals need to be made with China and the federal government.

3nic not sure I know all your questions as I'm busy with smolts and fishing. So I can't research all the Royalty payola spin we have here in BC.... Don't think I can help you cut through all the BS around this industry. I'll let others decide, research and form there own ideas......
GLG

Cannot comment of the above links as I have not read them yet.

One thing also to note is that the 'Big Bad Oil" consists of approx 2% of the total wells here in BC, and mosy of those are shut in (Closed) as they just do not produce as compared to the ones in Alberta.

I do have to ask, if we "Shut Down" this industry, along with any other that does not fit well with the "Island and LM" that live in Utopia, what will run this province?? According the Commission, 65% of ALL royalties collected in the Province from resourse extraction comes from 1/5 of the area of the province, these royalties support health care, social programs, roads and bridges and so on.

I was a very uninformed person when I lived on the Island, thought what was happening up here, with the fracing, pipelines, wells and roads was a rape and pilage with most of the $$$ going back to Calgary Alberta. Once up here and working in the industry has changed my mind.....although still not sure about Fracing yet.

Anyways, resourse extraction is the backbone of the Province and unless bear watching, whale watching and salmon guding can keep the province afloat, we should focus on ensuring that the extraction is done properly, environmental protection is place and that it is done to maximize the returns to the people of this province.

Cheers

SS

 

[MRACER]

Bag-Juan "Yes, the NDP cooked there own goose, major mistake by the Dix man. oh well another 4 years of robbing the poor to give to the rich"
B.C. allready experimented with robbing the rich to give to the poor---IT DOESN'T WORK!!!!!!! witness the result with the FA. and then extrapolate it to all of Van Isle---The rest of BC does not wish to end up the same way!

 

[GLG]

I did read the link you posted and it was interesting, so thanks but it's not a complete picture. Like you say there's many sides to the balance sheet and us mortals have a hard time getting all the info especially if we question the motivation of the sources as most have an agenda to support. Your assertion that the province only gained $7.1 million though is ludacris and I'm sure you don't believe it any more than I it defies logic and reason.

I didn't say that.... I said just a small piece to the puzzle. One small way on how this is reported. You know the revenue side but not the expense side. This is just an example in one department. The same holds true to other departments that deal with O&G.

Here's another angle, fire up Google and search "2012 bc land sale revenue" and have a gander, if you're busy with fishing I'd assume you don't have time to fart around there ( I know I'd rather fish but I'm at work!) so I'll post the first link that comes up, I know nothing of this source but it matches most of the subsequent hits from the search.



http://www.kootenaycapital.com/in-the-news/july-20-2012-b-c-july-sale-draws-3-89-million/ Here's a couple high lights from the article so you don't have to wade through it;

The first three sales of 2012 in B.C. drew total bonus bids of $80.68 million, but the last four have produced only$6.86 million.

The July sale this week drew a total of $3.89 million in bonus bids on 5,129 hectares at an average of $759.35. Year-to-date, land sales have climbed to $87.54 million for 72,063 hectares at an average of $1,214.80.

To the same point in 2011, the government had collected $71.45 million on 86,643 hectares at an average of $824.70.

Now lets go back a bit further, check this one out;

In 2008, during the zenith of the shale gas land rush, the province attracted $2.66 billion in bonus bids at an average of $3,518.19. By 2011, revenue had fallen to a total of $222.68 million at an average of $1,162.63.

That's billions friend, with a B!!!

Here's the first sentence from the second search hit;

The British Columbia government kicked off its 2013 land sale schedule this week by attracting just under $10 million in bonus bids, less than one-third what it received a year ago.

I relize this isn't recurring revenue but god damn it's looks like a big boost to the province to me, and this my friend is how every single family in the province benefits. So I'll ask you the question for a third time, are you saying that the province is at a net loss from the energy industry? This one I'm asking for the second time, if not resource extraction what is driving the economic engine of this province?

Yup 1 Billion is a large number but did you know that no royalties are paid until those cost have been recovered from the final sale of that gas to the customer? Only after those cost are paid does the O&G sector have to begin to pay royalties. That's a sweet deal. We have gone from the owners of the resource to partners and as a good partner we are picking up the tab for the production. I'm not the only one in this province that is questioning whats going on.
Have a look at this website and see the graph of the royalty trend. We are producing more volume of gas and the royalties are going down. Where will it stop? When royalties are zero? How many government jobs and assets are devoted to the O&G sector. Why don't we see the expense side (taxpayer bill) to admin this sector? I find what the AG had to say troubling and a sign of the times.
http://northerninsights.blogspot.ca/2013/03/promise-one-thing-do-another.html


We all get frustrated and from time to time we all let it get the best of us. I have no problem.... apology accepted.

 

[GLG]

I do have to ask, if we "Shut Down" this industry, along with any other that does not fit well with the "Island and LM" that live in Utopia, what will run this province?? According the Commission, 65% of ALL royalties collected in the Province from resourse extraction comes from 1/5 of the area of the province, these royalties support health care, social programs, roads and bridges and so on.

I was a very uninformed person when I lived on the Island, thought what was happening up here, with the fracing, pipelines, wells and roads was a rape and pilage with most of the $$$ going back to Calgary Alberta. Once up here and working in the industry has changed my mind.....although still not sure about Fracing yet.

Anyways, resourse extraction is the backbone of the Province and unless bear watching, whale watching and salmon guding can keep the province afloat, we should focus on ensuring that the extraction is done properly, environmental protection is place and that it is done to maximize the returns to the people of this province.

Cheers

SS

Hi SS... I'm not asking to shut down the industry.... I like you would like them to "maximize the returns to the people of this province."

Here is a quote from the unaudited statement of accounts from the province....

Oil and gas royalty revenues are reported after adjustments for various royalty deduction programs such as producer cost of service allowances, deep well, summer drilling, marginal, ultra marginal, low production, 2% incentive, net profit, new pool discovery and road construction. Deductions allowable in the calculation of royalties revenue were $496.6 million (2011: $469.3 million).

So you see the people of BC have forgone just about half a billion in lost royalties according to the financial statements. That would have gone along way in paying down debt or social programs. Why does the government cut them deals when clearly this is the peoples resource and the O&G sector is not paying for taking of that resource. Clearly someone is getting the short end of the stick and I don't think it's the 'Big Bad Oil" companies. I posted a link showing the volume of gas produced and the amount of royalties. The total volume is much higher and the royalties are much lower. Yes the price of gas is not as high but thats the O&G's problem they are the ones that are supose to take the risk not the people of BC. We are not partners we are the owners and they need to think about what that means. They don't like it then to bad.... It's our resource not theirs.....