Anyone see this "commentary" in the Vancouver Sun today?

[Foxsea]

Sorry it is long but this pisses me off, and I went to make a comment on the sun site and its to much FM

Hourston: You bring up many, valid point for serious consideration. I just think we have other priorities to target right now. Before we work on some of those very important issues that you mention, we have to first deal with a negative public opinion (some folks see sport fishermen as an elite group - affording an expensive hobby and only taking from a public resource), allocation and f**cking fish farms!

 

[chris73]

How about you go to work and look after your family once in a while, Foxsea, instead of playing the teacher here to long time valued members of the board. A little more humility as a new member would suite you right.

What a lot of people forget is that it is the sportfishing community that provides most volunteer time and funds for salmon restoration and enhancement projects in BC , ever since DFO has abandoned the Pacific Salmon. Countless hours are spent by mostly anglers cleaning up rivers, operating hatcheries and running fundraising events to pay for it all. And yes, the so "hated" Fishing Derbies (of which many by the way do not have the big cash prizes) are a major financer of many critical salmon projects. Without a doubt, whithout the angler's efforts and passion for the salmon, there would hardly be any left in many watersheds. Now you want to tell all those anglers that they can't even get a few rewards back for all their work? Think again! You take this incentive away from anglers and you might as well kiss the salmon good buy because NO ONE else cares for our salmon like the anglers do. Can we do even more? Absolutely. But maybe it is time now that others do something too before they ask sportfishers to do all the work but to cut them back even further when it comes to the harvest.

 

[IronNoggin]

"Desperately poor returns are predicted for spring and summer runs. Fisheries managers say they have DNA evidence that fully 50 per cent of the recreational summer catch in the past has been from these severely depleted runs."

Methinks The Dino has a place at the table for anyone who can churn out such exaggerated numbers at the drop of a hat! Were this to be fact, the rec fleet would have been pulled one hell of a long time ago! DFO's own (more than suspect) records of FN catch do however note their percentage runs greater than 30% - as of what, 5 or 6 years ago now. Any bets as to whether their effort has decreased since then?

What the Rec Fleet is seeing now in that area is reflective of what has occurred with the WCVI Troll Fleet for many many years now. The Ernie Crey's of the world scream that "their" runs are slipping, and DEMAND that anyone & everyone else's effort MUST be slowed or curtailed. Overlying threat is if this doesn't occur, the FN's will fish them into extinction. DFO's assessments concur with the downward spiral, and merrily go about severely limiting the fishing efforts of those they can (the ONLY ones they can). The FN's rub their hands, and carry on Business As Usual. There is no surprise to me or any other Area G Troller that the pain is now coming to the anglers, it was simply a matter of time. We've been living with it for years.

I would LOVE to believe we could actually get all of the FN's on the same page with us as far as conservation goes. Unfortunately I see major obstacles to that ever occurring. Case in point, the Stolo's fishing away to the MAJOR discontent of up-river Bands - they cannot even agree amongst themselves how to conserve the runs - although as in many cases, this reflects the actions of a singular, selfish group.

The latest sham from Ernie Crey regarding his public plea for the recreational sector to "join the FN's in conservation" is exactly that - a sham specifically designed to deflect criticism of his own, and his band's fishing operations. Given the explicit DEMANDS he and his ilk have laid at DFO's feet regarding any other sector's efforts, this rather well shows his true colors.

I am ALL for a United front, consisting of all 3 sectors working together towards the betterment of our resources. I am more than willing to work diligently towards that goal. It would be DFO's worst nightmare, and for that alone, I'd be IN!

But, until we can browbeat The Dino into desisting from their intentionally divisive tactics, until we can forgive the differences between the sectors, and until we find a method of dealing with the likes of Mr. Crey, I am afraid the day we wish for is a long ways from being realized...

And none of that is very damn "Cheery",
Nog

 

[Englishman]

How about you go to work and look after your family once in a while, Foxsea, instead of playing the teacher here to long time valued members of the board. A little more humility as a new member would suite you right.

What a lot of people forget is that it is the sportfishing community that provides most volunteer time and funds for salmon restoration and enhancement projects in BC , ever since DFO has abandoned the Pacific Salmon. Countless hours are spent by mostly anglers cleaning up rivers, operating hatcheries and running fundraising events to pay for it all. And yes, the so "hated" Fishing Derbies (of which many by the way do not have the big cash prizes) are a major financer of many critical salmon projects. Without a doubt, whithout the angler's efforts and passion for the salmon, there would hardly be any left in many watersheds. Now you want to tell all those anglers that they can't even get a few rewards back for all their work? Think again! You take this incentive away from anglers and you might as well kiss the salmon good buy because NO ONE else cares for our salmon like the anglers do. Can we do even more? Absolutely. But maybe it is time now that others do something too before they ask sportfishers to do all the work but to cut them back even further when it comes to the harvest.

Wise words Chris73. The only worthwhile achievements in this world come about through enlightened self interest. For a model take a look at what "Ducks Unlimited" have achieved across North America with wetlands conservation and habitat preservation, which benefited a whole lot more than just the ducks. Yes this chiefly hunters based organisation did all this because they wanted to hunt ducks. But because of their self-interest they were enlightened enough to understand you have to protect and preserve habitat and grow more ducks. Similarly it is only anglers who understand fully the importance of habitat protection and conservation in keeping the salmon around and work hard to that end. The average Joe public cares nothing for salmon (or ducks) because they have no interest or stake in them.
(There are a few exceptions and those that are members of various environmental groups are not all hunters and anglers - however, I argue they still have a self-interest to protect, namely an interest in clean air, clean water and good health!)

 

[reelfast]

DUs efforts only work because the commercial hunting of ducks became illegal. if there were still commercial interests, it would look alot like the problems we all face with salmon.

 

[Foxsea]

Thanks for your valuable suggestion...

How about you go to work and look after your family once in a while, Foxsea, instead of playing the teacher here to long time valued members of the board. A little more humility as a new member would suite you right.

Chris: Sorry to offend you. I'll work on your suggestions (Thanks for your concerns - although my kids left the nest 15 years ago. I'm helping with the Grandkids, now.)

It appeared that you could use a bit of fresh air in the room but you slammed the window. Good luck with that defensive approach. I appreciate your passion on this subject. I hear it and I get it that there are the popular opinions here. There are also also other, common viewpoints that should also be considered, without you feeling the need to justify yours or beat up on the messengers.

Solidarity's great - seniority's great but cheerleading for your team will not help this cause. Once again, you alienate the very people that you should be recruiting for support. That's part of the reason this sports fishery is in big trouble.

 

[finaddict]

If commercial hunting of salmon was also illegal, we'd be in a much different state. Having said that, DU would also be in a much different state if there was any FN interest in ducks.

 

[Foxsea]

[II am ALL for a United front, consisting of all 3 sectors working together towards the betterment of our resources. I am more than willing to work diligently towards that goal. It would be DFO's worst nightmare, and for that alone, I'd be IN!

But, until we can browbeat The Dino into desisting from their intentionally divisive tactics, until we can forgive the differences between the sectors, and until we find a method of dealing with the likes of Mr. Crey, I am afraid the day we wish for is a long ways from being realized...
Nog

Agreed! It's no doubt frustrating but you have laid out a clear path for resolution to this situation. Crey is an intelligent and media savvy guy. Attacking head-on does not help us. Finding another way to protect our interests requires unity, us becoming more media savvy, developing our constituency and finding a place at the table where we are not written-off as a bunch of cranky nuts.

Ducks Unlimited became a powerful lobby because they didn't portray themselves as duck killers but as "wetland conservationists." Brilliant!
We need their media consultant to spin us as "ocean conservationists".

 

[chris73]

I am not slamming any windows or doors, Foxsea. You are very welcome to express your opinions here and good ideas are more than welcome and much needed in times of desperation for us anglers. But what may rub some people the wrong way is how you come here 4 weeks ago, rack up more posts during that short period than most in years by giving everyone everywhere your lesson of wisdom. After all it is only your opinion and may not always be right even though you feels so. Sometimes treading a little quieter when joining an established group as a newbee and listening first is a better approach then storming in and taking over the podium. Not that we don't need any good leaders but you got to earn your respect first. All I am saying and it coincides well with what you preach: more diplomacy. Your turn to act and speak.

 

[Foxsea]

I am not slamming any windows or doors, Foxsea. You are very welcome to express your opinions here and good ideas are more than welcome and much needed in times of desperation for us anglers. But what may rub some people the wrong way is how you come here 4 weeks ago, rack up more posts during that short period than most in years by giving everyone everywhere your lesson of wisdom. After all it is only your opinion and may not always be right even though you feels so. Sometimes treading a little quieter when joining an established group as a newbee and listening first is a better approach then storming in and taking over the podium. Not that we don't need any good leaders but you got to earn your respect first. All I am saying and it coincides well with what you preach: more diplomacy. Your turn to act and speak.

It's all good from my side - I grew up in a family that often expressed themselves through heated discussion -Irish. And I certainly hear you regarding diplomacy - I should tape over the send key, sometimes!

Somehow, I don't feel entirely new here - my old handle was westislander but it wouldn't work after a few years away (health issue). Hence the new handle. I respect the experience, insights suggestions and generosity of the many kind folks here. I'm a life-long fisherman and also feel strongly that we are seeing a great legacy slipping away.

There is more than one way to skin a cat, they say - I'm looking to skin the fish farms and yes, the DFO mandarins, if we could ever reach the insulated hierarchy in Ottawa. That may be a bridge too far. Although there are things to be addressed in the FN community, attacking is no way to build the bridges we need to reach the other side of this frustrating issue.

Thanks for taking the time to communicate your thoughts, Chris. I sincerely appreciate it!

 

[scott craven]

Very classy reponse, it would have been easy to start another battle.
good for you guys !

 

[Foxsea]

Very classy reponse, it would have been easy to start another battle.
good for you guys !

Ah - in the end we're all sea-faring brothers that love the same things (told your girlfriend to keep us on the down-low.) Thanks.

 

[searun]

This thread is going no where by spear hucking at FN. Bottom line is we all need to work together. Problem we all face is there is a possibility the Fraser Chinook return is going to come in below 30,000 fish, which means at that point DFO would need to implement some further restrictions to ensure enough fish made it to the river. They do not actually know the run strength, and this will be determined by the Albion Test Fishery in mid June. IF the run is below 30,000 more measures will be needed to reduce the catch. IF the run is over that amount, nothing further will need to be imposed to reduce catch.

People are jumping to premature conclusions without the facts. Facts are DFO is serving warning they MAY have to place further restrictions depending on the outcome of that test fishery. This in my view is a responsible approach. As recreational anglers there are times when we must step back and simply do the right thing to protect our fish. We took some serious fishing closures on the WCVI in the 90's due to the effects of El Ninio - closed to chinook retention period. Given the situation that was the right thing to do, no matter how much it hurt.

40 or so years of fishing tells me that fish populations are cyclical...and we will face more of these bad cycles again.

 

[lorneparker1]

This thread is going no where by spear hucking at FN. Bottom line is we all need to work together. Problem we all face is there is a possibility the Fraser Chinook return is going to come in below 30,000 fish, which means at that point DFO would need to implement some further restrictions to ensure enough fish made it to the river. They do not actually know the run strength, and this will be determined by the Albion Test Fishery in mid June. IF the run is below 30,000 more measures will be needed to reduce the catch. IF the run is over that amount, nothing further will need to be imposed to reduce catch.

People are jumping to premature conclusions without the facts. Facts are DFO is serving warning they MAY have to place further restrictions depending on the outcome of that test fishery. This in my view is a responsible approach. As recreational anglers there are times when we must step back and simply do the right thing to protect our fish. We took some serious fishing closures on the WCVI in the 90's due to the effects of El Ninio - closed to chinook retention period. Given the situation that was the right thing to do, no matter how much it hurt.

40 or so years of fishing tells me that fish populations are cyclical...and we will face more of these bad cycles again.

Are the WCVI guys taking restrictions too? or do the fraser fish not come past there?

Lorne

 

[Hindsight]

This thread is going no where by spear hucking at FN. Bottom line is we all need to work together. Problem we all face is there is a possibility the Fraser Chinook return is going to come in below 30,000 fish, which means at that point DFO would need to implement some further restrictions to ensure enough fish made it to the river. They do not actually know the run strength, and this will be determined by the Albion Test Fishery in mid June. IF the run is below 30,000 more measures will be needed to reduce the catch. IF the run is over that amount, nothing further will need to be imposed to reduce catch.

People are jumping to premature conclusions without the facts. Facts are DFO is serving warning they MAY have to place further restrictions depending on the outcome of that test fishery. This in my view is a responsible approach. As recreational anglers there are times when we must step back and simply do the right thing to protect our fish. We took some serious fishing closures on the WCVI in the 90's due to the effects of El Ninio - closed to chinook retention period. Given the situation that was the right thing to do, no matter how much it hurt.

40 or so years of fishing tells me that fish populations are cyclical...and we will face more of these bad cycles again.

http://www.cbbulletin.com/415842.aspx read this great site. it just goes to show if you put the effort into it they will come back..

 

[searun]

Yes, God Bless America - they know how to do it right.

Lorne, get the facts (again). If you had attended the SFAC meeting last night you would have heard the full details of the situation, management issues and why restrictions (IF THEY ARE NECESSARY AT ALL) would be most effective in areas 19/20. Why would you shut down the entire WCVI when the Fraser Chinook are not a factor in the catch further up the coast. Its like the Halibut issue with you all over again.....READY, SHOOT, AIM

 

[lorneparker1]

Yes, God Bless America - they know how to do it right.

Lorne, get the facts (again). If you had attended the SFAC meeting last night you would have heard the full details of the situation, management issues and why restrictions (IF THEY ARE NECESSARY AT ALL) would be most effective in areas 19/20. Why would you shut down the entire WCVI when the Fraser Chinook are not a factor in the catch further up the coast. Its like the Halibut issue with you all over again.....READY, SHOOT, AIM

Just a simple question man relax. I never said i would shut down anything. Just asked a question. Why are you so defensive? I attended my local SFAC, and it wasnt really on our agenda. So we didnt really talk about it. I asked deryk in the other thread what happened at the meeting last night, And i got a 3 word answer. If you dont want people(me) to draw our own conclusions, Speak up and tell the truth.

I wasnt at the meeting. Me and pretty much everyone else on the board. So for all the people that couldnt attend.....

The floor is yours.

Tell us the details of the situation, management issues, and why Area 19/20 should take the all the weight of the restrictions if they are implemented. I am all ears.

Lorne

Also how does the DFO know if most of the fish are caught in the south vs the west?

 

[searun]

Hardly worth the effort Lorne. I could supply a truck load of data - it just falls on deft ears.

 

[lorneparker1]

OK cool.

I guess we are left to draw our own conclusions.

How do the south island guys feel about this?

Lorne

 

[Dave S]

Hardly worth the effort Lorne. I could supply a truck load of data - it just falls on deft ears.

You have a truck load of data to show that 19/20 are taking more of these fish than wcvi? Where's your data from? Dfo? Haha. Come on. You've obviously got motive to be stating this. Don't want to see your area hit? Fair enough but don't rely on the information supplied by Dfo. Is it really anything more than guessing? Pretty outdated too.