Another Electronics Question

[pennel]

Hi guys,I need some help and input from you.
I've read most of the threads with a lot of info. about installing new electronics.
There is so much info. out there that the brain hurts as to which way to jump.
So what I would like you to do, if you don't mind, is give me your entire package for the following boat.
It's a 26' aluminum (NWAC) and what I require is a good plotter in the front (12") and a plotter of around 10" on the rear bulkhead,
plus radar,vhf and am thinking (not sure) 2 separate transducers.
I have only ever used Lowrance (hds 8) and haven't had any issues.
The problem is that the guys installing the engine are Garmin dealers.
Not looking for bells and whistles ,just good stuff to get the job done on West VanIsle.
So if you have a few moments to spare I would appreciate it if you could help out.
Thanks

 

[Sir Reel]

This is my setup. Works Awesome.
Since it is wireless you can run an iPad or cell phone as another screen at your helm.

Garmin 1243xsv
Garmin 943xsv
Garmin Fantom 18" radar or HD radar
Standard Horizon GX2400 with AIS (less money that ICOM or Garmin)
Airmar S175HW transducer
NEMA backbone and cables

Garmin GPSMAP 743xsv, 943xsv & 1243xsv @ GPSCentral

The new Garmin GPSMAP 743xsv, 943xsv and 1243xsv chartplotter have a compact footprint and higher processing power. Shop online today!

www.gpscentral.ca

Marine Radars | GPS Central

Marine Radars Marine radars from Garmin. Choose from single radars or bundles. Overlay radar images onto your chartplotter map. Avoid traffic. Easy to use & install.

www.gpscentral.ca

AIRMAR

Standard Horizon GX2400 Matrix AIS/GPS/NMEA2000 Marine Tranceiver

Buy a new Standard Horizon GX2400 Matrix AIS/GPS/NMEA2000 Marine Tranceiver (GX2400) from GPS Central, Authorized dealer.

www.gpscentral.ca

 

[doug78]

Poco marine has some great pricing on the 1243. It doesn't show the actual price until it hits your cart.

 

[walleyes]

I’m not going to give any advice on products as I feel they are all pretty equal now days hard to justify one being any better than the other really. It boils down to availability, service and cost. I went with a full Hummingbird set up, just cause I like them and the options are pretty wild with them and their ease of set up and linking.

One thing I’ll mention is if your going for a new boat full set up look at doing a package deal. I did a deal with the Fishin Hole out here in AB. I dealt with their electronics guy in Edmonton, great guy. I set up a new boat and did the full package through them. Downriggers and everything. On top of the Fishin Hole having very competitive pricing, to begin with even better than Cabellas I negotiated a 10% discount on all products. Ended up a decent deal for me. So don’t be scared to hit them up for a deal if your dropping some good coin on their lap.

 

[macro]

I’m not going to give any advice on products as I feel they are all pretty equal now days hard to justify one being any better than the other really. It boils down to availability, service and cost. I went with a full Hummingbird set up, just cause I like them and the options are pretty wild with them and their ease of set up and linking.

One thing I’ll mention is if your going for a new boat full set up look at doing a package deal. I did a deal with the Fishin Hole out here in AB. I dealt with their electronics guy in Edmonton, great guy. I set up a new boat and did the full package through them. Downriggers and everything. On top of the Fishin Hole having very competitive pricing, to begin with even better than Cabellas I negotiated a 10% discount on all products. Ended up a decent deal for me. So don’t be scared to hit them up for a deal if your dropping some good coin on their lap.

I've got both a bird (helix g2) and a hds gen 3. Only reason I got the bird is cause it came make it's own maps with out a subscription. When you look at xducer options, bird does not have the same support as Garmin, lowrance, etc.

I'd go garmin / lowrance next time around. I think the birds belong in lakes

 

[walleyes]

I've got both a bird (helix g2) and a hds gen 3. Only reason I got the bird is cause it came make it's own maps with out a subscription. When you look at xducer options, bird does not have the same support as Garmin, lowrance, etc.

I'd go garmin / lowrance next time around. I think the birds belong in lakes

They definitely have a better reputation on the fresh water. They have made improvements if you want to spend the money. I’m a meat and potatoes kind of guy myself so they give me plenty of what I want. It takes some dialling in to get them fine tuned but you can get them reading,, well plenty for my tastes that’s for sure. The new G4N’s are nice units. But for sure there are good points to all units it gets to be a personal choice in the end.

 

[macro]

They definitely have a better reputation on the fresh water. They have made improvements if you want to spend the money. I’m a meat and potatoes kind of guy myself so they give me plenty of what I want. It takes some dialling in to get them fine tuned but you can get them reading,, well plenty for my tastes that’s for sure. The new G4N’s are nice units. But for sure there are good points to all units it gets to be a personal choice in the end.

Nods. I've heard a lot of people like the birds side imaging over lowrance.. but for ocean.. not really a factor. I dont have a g4, so cant say. Just based on my experiences with my units. Also, my comparison is not really fair. A hds better lines up against a solix.

 

[Sharphooks]

Do yourself a favor and research the Furuno TzT3 series....Furuno used to be fairly complex and took awhile to figure out and was mainly used by the commercial fleet but the TzT series has specifically targeted the rec market and now, they’re very intuitive and logical to use. More importantly, they are now competitive with Garmin and other brands in price, and in several respects, have a better user interface. Their sonar is second to none. A little research will confirm that statement. And their charting functions used to be ponderous but not anymore.

I just purchased a new-to-me boat that’s loaded with Garmin... 1242xsv in the wheelhouse, 8612xsv on the back deck etc.... First time I ever used Garmin—-I’ve had Furuno on my last four boats. I’m here to tell you that there are some charting functions in the Garmin that are really bad compared to the Furuno ....so bad I thought I was getting it wrong...turns out I wasn’t....if my 1242xsv wasn’t glassed in to my console, it would be listed on eBay in a heartbeat and I’d be stepping up for a TzT3...

yes, that bad

 

[ericl]

It is possible that depending on engine brand that Garmin offers the best integration of engine data - not sure but many boat mfgrs use Garmin pre-installed - ask the engine installers.
For transducer, the new Airmar TM 165HW would be a good fit; it's transom mounted so no need for an expensive stainless steel transducer (required to do a thru-hull on AL boats), but a thru hull will always perform better.
I doubt anybody makes better RADAR/SONAR than Furuno. Their support/repair is located in WA state. I get great answers to technical questions both pre/post purchase in a day or less. Your question above would get a great answer. They make an inexpensive wireless RADAR.

If the rear bulkhead is out of the direct sun, a tablet app may work for your second display. I went with a 16" Furuno to mitigate this issue of seeing the display from a distance. They have a hard-wired USB remote.

 

[pennel]

Thanks for the useful info. to all of you (my head is still hurting with all info).
Was going to go along with Sir Reels package (even talked to Garmin in Oregon) until Sharphooks threw a spanner in the works-Furuno ...more research.
Anyway the question about transducers .I run a P66 and happy for what I do.However ,would it be really beneficial to get a thru hull one for us up here and offshore on the banks?Is it going to make a big difference to warrant the extra bucks?
Don’t want to cut myself short but don’t want to waste money either and one or two ?

 

[redman210]

Hi guys,I need some help and input from you.
I've read most of the threads with a lot of info. about installing new electronics.
There is so much info. out there that the brain hurts as to which way to jump.
So what I would like you to do, if you don't mind, is give me your entire package for the following boat.
It's a 26' aluminum (NWAC) and what I require is a good plotter in the front (12") and a plotter of around 10" on the rear bulkhead,
plus radar,vhf and am thinking (not sure) 2 separate transducers.
I have only ever used Lowrance (hds 8) and haven't had any issues.
The problem is that the guys installing the engine are Garmin dealers.
Not looking for bells and whistles ,just good stuff to get the job done on West VanIsle.
So if you have a few moments to spare I would appreciate it if you could help out.
Thanks

I am almost done rigging my new 2700 Hewescraft.... shopped around and have owned all brands. Hands down, to me the best one was Garmin. I was going to put a 12" up front... ended up with 2 9" GPSMAP942 in the front, and another 942 in the rear. GPS Central in Calgary has them on sale for 1099 each... was way cheaper than a 12" and realistically I have an 18". I put in the Radar, external GPS antenna, external direction sensor, and almost done the Reactor 40 Autopilot with yet another screen. Put in the Fusion radio and tied it all together with a NMEA backbone setup.... even put in a back up camera and tied into one of the screens. Absolute perfection. I put in two transducers, one tied to one of the front screens and the other to the rear. You cannot share screen data between them, but they will all have matching depths thru the NMEA setup. I would highly recommend using the 3 screens all the same versus one larger one. In essence you can have 6 different displays going at the same time on the helm. If you add the Garmin VHF... even better. My boat came with some Cobra thing... when it dies... in comes the Garmin. After using the other brands and dealing with years of frustration... Garmin came down a winner to me. Easy to find adapters and parts for as well. The whole system was about 12K or so... but including the Auto pilot... well worth it. Would hate to be 50 mile off shore chasing Albacore and have a problem.

 

[macro]

Thanks for the useful info. to all of you (my head is still hurting with all info).
Was going to go along with Sir Reels package (even talked to Garmin in Oregon) until Sharphooks threw a spanner in the works-Furuno ...more research.
Anyway the question about transducers .I run a P66 and happy for what I do.However ,would it be really beneficial to get a thru hull one for us up here and offshore on the banks?Is it going to make a big difference to warrant the extra bucks?
Don’t want to cut myself short but don’t want to waste money either and one or two ?

Through hull is not required - the benefit is it is much clearer at speed, where a transom mount may have air bubles and as such less clarity.. a trolling speed there is less of a difference.

You would be well served to step up to a CHIRP transducer. The TLDR is CHIRP is superior to fixed frequency (even a decent fixed frequency like a p66) This is regardless of brand.

What’s CHIRP Sonar? | West Marine

West Marine is committed to outfitting your life on the water. With over 250 store locations, 100,000 products in stock, and knowledgeable Associates, trust West Marine for your boating, sailing, fishing, or paddling needs. Shop with confidence - get free shipping to home or stores + price match...

www.westmarine.com

Cheers,

 

[macro]

It is possible that depending on engine brand that Garmin offers the best integration of engine data - not sure but many boat mfgrs use Garmin pre-installed - ask the engine installers.
For transducer, the new Airmar TM 165HW would be a good fit; it's transom mounted so no need for an expensive stainless steel transducer (required to do a thru-hull on AL boats), but a thru hull will always perform better.
I doubt anybody makes better RADAR/SONAR than Furuno. Their support/repair is located in WA state. I get great answers to technical questions both pre/post purchase in a day or less. Your question above would get a great answer. They make an inexpensive wireless RADAR.

If the rear bulkhead is out of the direct sun, a tablet app may work for your second display. I went with a 16" Furuno to mitigate this issue of seeing the display from a distance. They have a hard-wired USB remote.

Just read up on the tm165HW - YES PLEASE! I've got a tm150m and thats a nice little step up!

 

[Sharphooks]

Thanks for the useful info. to all of you (my head is still hurting with all info).
Was going to go along with Sir Reels package (even talked to Garmin in Oregon) until Sharphooks threw a spanner in the works-Furuno ...more research.
Anyway the question about transducers .I run a P66 and happy for what I do.However ,would it be really beneficial to get a thru hull one for us up here and offshore on the banks?Is it going to make a big difference to warrant the extra bucks?
Don’t want to cut myself short but don’t want to waste money either and one or two ?

I understand why people gravitate to Garmin...easy to use out of the box. The fact that they have an option to bring up the Operator’s Manual for the particular unit you’re using is well thought out. But there are some things it does ****-poor and unfortunately those “things” are a really important part of my trip preparation....I almost walked away from the boat when I found out it I was loaded with Garmin

Case in point: Plan a few routes that do not include “own ship’s postion” .... see how incredibly tedious that exercise is on the Garmin compared to the Furuno basic C-Map Time Zero chart software functions. Then review the various routes, like maybe to determine whether you have enough searoom between your boat and the various islands and reefs along those routes you created....take note of the Furuno charting software that allows for a detailed flyover of your routes to examine them, where you can zoom in or out at will during the “flyover” and make changes as necessary...now try that same exercise on your Garmin charting software....what were they thinking?????

Your transducer question: the P66 is a good place to start. Tried-and-true, and good picture at speed if it’s mounted properly....flush-mounted through-hulls are nice for clean picture at speed (if not mounted downstreram of bubble makers like strakes and water intakes etc)

I’ve had the B175W through-hull Chirp on my last 3 boats. Hard to find a transducer that paints as clear a picture at speed and it captures lots of information under your boat. My current boat doesn’t have a through-hull. I have the Garmin GT51 transom mount which is a good solid transducer...I was pleasantly surprised when I fired it up. That and the P66 covers all the bases for me, though I do have a transom mounted B54 (the Furuno Dff3D transducer). But it’s so big that as a transom mount, it causes lots of commotion in the water and I lose picture at 3,900 RPM’s +

 

[ericl]

Anyway the question about transducers .I run a P66 and happy for what I do.However ,would it be really beneficial to get a thru hull one for us up here and offshore on the banks?Is it going to make a big difference to warrant the extra bucks?

There are many youtube video's comparing the P66 with CHIRP transducers - CHIRP wins (at least in the opinion of the video poster) every time.
Finding out why it wins can be tedious & a great understanding of digital signal processing technology (which I don't have BTW) is extremely helpful. Noise rejection is superior as CHIRP remembers the waveforms it transmits & rejects anything it receives that it didn't send out. There are other technologies at play.

For Salmon, IMO a wide angle transducer that sees fish farther off to the side is superior; the fish may be 50 feet to the side of the boat but at least I can see how deep the fish are & set my downrigger at the proper depth. The P66 has a wide beam angle, but it's at 50 Khz (low frequency) which does not show detail as well as a higher frequency (high CHIRP will do a frequency sweep of 175 - 225 Khz or so depending on transducer model. IMO the most awesome CHIRP transducer for our fishing is the new Airmar TM165HW. It has a wide 30 degree beam & sweeps from 150 - 250 Khz. It is a 600 watt ducer good to 500 ft or so & is transom mount. It is very new & a thru hull version is not out yet. For thru hull, a 1 K watt version is available. If you want to pinpoint bottom fish on structure (within 10 feet of the boat or so) then a very narrow angle beam is best.
Back in the day we caught all the bottom fish we needed while trolling the banks.

Some will cruise looking for Salmon on the sounder - thru hull will give best high speed performance.

If you have deep pockets & go Furuno you can get their DFF3D side scan sonar good to 600 ft like Sharphooks & me. The other guys's sidescan will MAYBE do 150 feet in saltwater.

 

[Bennie]

Hi, would anyone know if FVC 587 FF will interface with a common transducer if using a TzT3 mfd,
Regards

 

[CBsqrd]

Hi, would anyone know if FVC 587 FF will interface with a common transducer if using a TzT3 mfd,
Regards

No. You would need an ethernet connection to use one (or more) transducers and view on multiple devices, which the FCV 587 does not have from my understanding.

 

[Bennie]

No. You would need an ethernet connection to use one (or more) transducers and view on multiple devices, which the FCV 587 does not have from my understanding.

Ok, thanks. As I thought about it I sorta recall that.
I will add a P66 transom mount transducer, good for trolling.

 

[Redfisher]

Thanks for the useful info. to all of you (my head is still hurting with all info).
Was going to go along with Sir Reels package (even talked to Garmin in Oregon) until Sharphooks threw a spanner in the works-Furuno ...more research.
Anyway the question about transducers .I run a P66 and happy for what I do.However ,would it be really beneficial to get a thru hull one for us up here and offshore on the banks?Is it going to make a big difference to warrant the extra bucks?
Don’t want to cut myself short but don’t want to waste money either and one or two ?

First great choice on your boat. I had a 27 that I sold without ever using it. (Long story for another day). Doug builds a great boat

Personally the transducer is a byproduct of your sounder. If you have a lower end Lowrance like mine (HDS10) then the Airmar P66 is adequate as the unit doesn’t put out enough power to properly utilize a better 1 kw transducer.

If I was you and rigging out a new NW I would go with a full Furuno package including a 1kw through hull transducer. The sounder helps you find fish and is the most important fishing aid in my opinion.

just my 2 cents worth.

 

[pennel]

First great choice on your boat. I had a 27 that I sold without ever using it. (Long story for another day). Doug builds a great boat

Personally the transducer is a byproduct of your sounder. If you have a lower end Lowrance like mine (HDS10) then the Airmar P66 is adequate as the unit doesn’t put out enough power to properly utilize a better 1 kw transducer.

If I was you and rigging out a new NW I would go with a full Furuno package including a 1kw through hull transducer. The sounder helps you find fish and is the most important fishing aid in my opinion.

just my 2 cents worth.

A couple of the issues with Furuno for me is that there is not a great deal of support here in Port Alberni.
I even had a dealer tell me
that although they can get the stuff they tend to shy away from it as it's a lot more fiddly to install (their words).
The other brands are readily more available. So from my point of view accessibility and backup, if it goes wrong, are also important.
Learning a lot from this thread.