All Things COVID-19

[cracked_ribs]

My thinking is that continued spread of Delta in a vaccinated adult population may be a good thing.

I don't care if I get covid if the symptoms aren't severe; the point isn't really to avoid covid but to avoid getting really sick.

If the vaccine prevents major symptoms in the overwhelming majority of people, but doesn't leave them with broad enough immunity, then that much reduced Delta infection could well be the thing to give them a broader immunity, because rather than just relying on the spike protein, there's the whole image of the virus to work from, which will include a whole bunch of different protein signatures.

I think ILHG's point about the questionable utility of the vaccine in kids is very interesting. That could well be the case and I agree, it drives me insane that this kind of thing gets pushed aside out of fear that people will draw the "wrong" conclusions.

But in adults at least, double Vax plus delta could actually be exactly what you want. Potentially that will be what herd immunity looks like: when huge numbers of people have been infected with delta, a process rendered mostly harmless via vaccination.

That'd be a pretty good outcome.

 

[GLG]

Reports of assault, harassment as thousands protest vaccine passports outside hospitals across B.C.​

Sep 01, 2021

Crowds of people opposed to COVID-19 vaccinations clogged the streets in Vancouver and outside hospitals across the province on Wednesday afternoon, earning the indignation of some political leaders.

Thousands of demonstrators, brought together by calls to "reject the tyranny of mandatory vaccines," gathered outside hospitals in Vancouver, Kelowna, Kamloops, Victoria, Prince George, Nanaimo and across the country.

They carried signs arguing that vaccine passports amount to discrimination. They chanted things like "freedom" and "crimes against humanity."

By the early evening, one health authority was reporting a physical assault against a health-care worker. Island Health's president and CEO Kathy MacNeil said that some of the protests on Vancouver Island had disrupted people's safe access to health care.

"Members of Island Health care teams were verbally abused as they came to and left work during these protests, and in at least one case a health-care team member was physically assaulted," MacNeil said in a written statement.

"What happened to our health-care teams today is not acceptable to me nor to the people and communities they serve. Our health-care teams deserve respect and support, no matter what personal beliefs we hold."

In Kamloops, on the other hand, a man was arrested on suspicion of assault with a weapon for allegedly throwing multiple eggs at protesters, according to RCMP.

Premier John Horgan called out what he described as "harassment" of health-care workers during the protests.

"While everyone has the right to peaceful protest, the targeting and harassment of health-care workers at health-care facilities today is completely unacceptable. We stand by our health-care workers and support them fully," he said in a written statement.

No Canadian government has made COVID-19 vaccines mandatory for the general public, though B.C. has announced immunization will be required for health-care workers in long-term care homes.

Some provinces, including B.C., are requiring proof of vaccination for certain non-essential activities, while many employers are requiring vaccines for people returning to the office.

Those who spoke with reporters at various B.C. rallies represented a range of interests. There were familiar faces who've protested against COVID-related restrictions since the beginning of the pandemic, as well as others who said they were motivated to attend a rally for the first time because of B.C.'s new vaccine card.

Vancouver emergency physician Dr. Navdeep Grewal said scenes from the protests had brought her to the verge of tears. She described them as deeply demeaning and disrespectful to the people working inside the hospitals.

"The lives of the people with COVID infections that they're saving right now are those that are unvaccinated," she said.

'Stay the hell home'​

The largest protest was in Vancouver, where demonstrators gathered outside Vancouver General Hospital before marching toward city hall, but Vancouver Coastal Health reported that there were no disruptions to the hospital's operations or patient care.

By 3 p.m., police estimated that as many as 5,000 people were blocking traffic at the intersection of Cambie Street and 12th Avenue.

Mayor Kennedy Stewart described the protesters as "kooks," "fringe lunatics" and "a bunch of jerks" in an interview with CBC News, and said they were rubbing salt in the wounds of exhausted front-line workers.

"They should stay the hell home and stop doing this," he said.

Many in the majority white crowd carried signs comparing themselves to historic victims of genocide and other forms of violent racial and ethnic discrimination.

One sign read "Choice=Freedom | Mandate=Slavery," while others invoked "medical apartheid," the Holocaust and the Nuremberg Code, a set of principles for medical experimentation introduced in response to **** atrocities.

Greg Tanner told CBC News that neither he nor his wife, who works in assisted living, will get the COVID-19 vaccine, because "you give an inch, they take a mile."

"Hitler killed six million people in World War II. That's easy to remember. But the thing that's educational about that is why did society let that happen?" Tanner said. "We don't want to get there again."

However, he added that he didn't think the current situation should be compared to **** Germany.

Angela D'Agostino said she has no intention of getting the shot and found the current push for vaccination "scary."

"If we give up any of our rights now, we'll basically have no control over life," she said.

In Kelowna, about 1,000 people assembled outside Kelowna General Hospital.

Raena Birch said it was her first time attending a protest of any kind, but she was motivated to rally for freedom of choice.

"I don't think it's anyone else's business what I do medically," she said.

The protests were organized by Canadian Frontline Nurses, a group founded by two Ontario nurses known for promoting conspiracy theories about COVID-19 and attending rallies in the U.S. for those who believe the pandemic is a "fraud."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...sports-outside-hospitals-across-b-c-1.6161817

 

[SpringVelocity]

"Hitler killed six million people in World War II. That's easy to remember. But the thing that's educational about that is why did society let that happen?" Tanner said. "We don't want to get there again."

OMG LOLOLOL. Didn't take long to bring Hitler into discussion. Godwins law at work in the pandemic.

 

[Tieoneon]

Reports of assault, harassment as thousands protest vaccine passports outside hospitals across B.C.​

Sep 01, 2021

Crowds of people opposed to COVID-19 vaccinations clogged the streets in Vancouver and outside hospitals across the province on Wednesday afternoon, earning the indignation of some political leaders.

Thousands of demonstrators, brought together by calls to "reject the tyranny of mandatory vaccines," gathered outside hospitals in Vancouver, Kelowna, Kamloops, Victoria, Prince George, Nanaimo and across the country.

They carried signs arguing that vaccine passports amount to discrimination. They chanted things like "freedom" and "crimes against humanity."

By the early evening, one health authority was reporting a physical assault against a health-care worker. Island Health's president and CEO Kathy MacNeil said that some of the protests on Vancouver Island had disrupted people's safe access to health care.

"Members of Island Health care teams were verbally abused as they came to and left work during these protests, and in at least one case a health-care team member was physically assaulted," MacNeil said in a written statement.

"What happened to our health-care teams today is not acceptable to me nor to the people and communities they serve. Our health-care teams deserve respect and support, no matter what personal beliefs we hold."

In Kamloops, on the other hand, a man was arrested on suspicion of assault with a weapon for allegedly throwing multiple eggs at protesters, according to RCMP.

Premier John Horgan called out what he described as "harassment" of health-care workers during the protests.

"While everyone has the right to peaceful protest, the targeting and harassment of health-care workers at health-care facilities today is completely unacceptable. We stand by our health-care workers and support them fully," he said in a written statement.

No Canadian government has made COVID-19 vaccines mandatory for the general public, though B.C. has announced immunization will be required for health-care workers in long-term care homes.

Some provinces, including B.C., are requiring proof of vaccination for certain non-essential activities, while many employers are requiring vaccines for people returning to the office.

Those who spoke with reporters at various B.C. rallies represented a range of interests. There were familiar faces who've protested against COVID-related restrictions since the beginning of the pandemic, as well as others who said they were motivated to attend a rally for the first time because of B.C.'s new vaccine card.

Vancouver emergency physician Dr. Navdeep Grewal said scenes from the protests had brought her to the verge of tears. She described them as deeply demeaning and disrespectful to the people working inside the hospitals.

"The lives of the people with COVID infections that they're saving right now are those that are unvaccinated," she said.

'Stay the hell home'​

The largest protest was in Vancouver, where demonstrators gathered outside Vancouver General Hospital before marching toward city hall, but Vancouver Coastal Health reported that there were no disruptions to the hospital's operations or patient care.

By 3 p.m., police estimated that as many as 5,000 people were blocking traffic at the intersection of Cambie Street and 12th Avenue.

Mayor Kennedy Stewart described the protesters as "kooks," "fringe lunatics" and "a bunch of jerks" in an interview with CBC News, and said they were rubbing salt in the wounds of exhausted front-line workers.

"They should stay the hell home and stop doing this," he said.

Many in the majority white crowd carried signs comparing themselves to historic victims of genocide and other forms of violent racial and ethnic discrimination.

One sign read "Choice=Freedom | Mandate=Slavery," while others invoked "medical apartheid," the Holocaust and the Nuremberg Code, a set of principles for medical experimentation introduced in response to **** atrocities.

Greg Tanner told CBC News that neither he nor his wife, who works in assisted living, will get the COVID-19 vaccine, because "you give an inch, they take a mile."

"Hitler killed six million people in World War II. That's easy to remember. But the thing that's educational about that is why did society let that happen?" Tanner said. "We don't want to get there again."

However, he added that he didn't think the current situation should be compared to **** Germany.

Angela D'Agostino said she has no intention of getting the shot and found the current push for vaccination "scary."

"If we give up any of our rights now, we'll basically have no control over life," she said.

In Kelowna, about 1,000 people assembled outside Kelowna General Hospital.

Raena Birch said it was her first time attending a protest of any kind, but she was motivated to rally for freedom of choice.

"I don't think it's anyone else's business what I do medically," she said.

The protests were organized by Canadian Frontline Nurses, a group founded by two Ontario nurses known for promoting conspiracy theories about COVID-19 and attending rallies in the U.S. for those who believe the pandemic is a "fraud."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...sports-outside-hospitals-across-b-c-1.6161817

OMG I didn’t think we had this many nut jobs living in Canada. What a bunch of culls!

 

[banger17]

It was pretty intense to watch the activity on the roadway and some of the hospital property, and it sure got my blood boiling (I work for a health authority, so watching what I say). Some of the assaults took place in Nanaimo - extreme verbal harassment, threats, staff being spit on by the protestors as people walking onto the property for work. Absolutely disgusting!

 

[SpringVelocity]

Its a weird world right now. Facebook and online places really aren't your friend. The pandemic has been really been weird. I have people I have known for years that I had to distance myself from based on this conspiracy theory stuff. Just way to negative.

The majority I hear opposed most of time is from millennial population which isn't surprising (no offense I know there are lot of you on forum). Basically the generation with nothing really to lose as the impact of COVID is lower. Yet their time telling older generations what to do. GenX are stuck in middle, and leaning towards boomer generation which most are pro vax and just want to get this over with. I mostly see a clash between the age groups, and you see it daily on Facebook etc.

This pandemic is making people go a bit strange, and I worry for people's mental health. The issue is no one talks face to face anymore. They just believe everything they see on social media. The ones that are weakest are easy to manipulate. Remember before pandemic many were already paranoid about government etc. This just adds to it.

What doesn't make sense and still doesn't is that it is yet again businesses directly asks for these passports to say open. Yet the public is still blaming the government/health workers.

So it's a double edge sword. The public gets mad when loans/grants are given to businesses. That support is cut now, so now businesses are scrambling to stay open.

So are all of these protesters prepared to pull out there wallets and support these businesses financially if they get shut down again? No of course they won't.

Remember no business open no jobs....

As for protesters this sums it up.

 

[Rain City]

Its a weird world right now. Facebook and online places really aren't your friend. The pandemic has been really been weird. I have people I have known for years that I had to distance myself from based on this conspiracy theory stuff. Just way to negative.

The majority I hear opposed most of time is from millennial population which isn't surprising (no offense I know there are lot of you on forum). Basically the generation with nothing really to lose as the impact of COVID is lower telling older generations what to do. GenX are stuck in middle, and leaning towards boomer generation which most are pro vax and just want to get this over with. I mostly see a clash between the age groups, and you see it daily on Facebook etc

This pandemic is making people go a bit strange, and I worry for people's mental health. The issue is no one talks face to face anymore. They just believe everything they see on social media. The ones that are weakest are easy to manipulate. Remember before pandemic many were already paranoid about government etc. This just adds to it.

What doesn't make sense and still doesn't is that it is yet again businesses directly asks for these passports to say open. Yet the public is still blaming the government/health workers.

So it's a double edge sword. The public gets mad when loans/grants are given to businesses. That support it cut now.

So are all of these protesters prepared to pull out there wallets and support these businesses financially if they get shut down again? No of course they won't.

Remember no business open no jobs....

The problem is the current government has given credence to the idea that the finite balance of the economy doesn't exist. They've shut everything down, given everyone money, racked up debt and now have the balls to ask for another term. To the weak mind, none of this matters. "The budget will balance itself." The economic impact is now irrelevant. Job security is irrelevant. The well-being of our seniors and children is irrelevant. It's a scary f***ing time.

 

[bigdogg1]

The difficult part right now is to filter out all the secondary and tertiary issues and keep the focus on how do we get out of this - if we can. I follow the science and the fact that those that are not vaccinated are the majority of those getting symptoms and being hospitalized. End of story. I am double-vaccinated and will get a booster if that is where the data takes us. This is a science decision, not a sheeple decision.

I do not have enough knowledge to argue when the right to choose goes up against the right to other's health. However, if one chooses not to get vaccinated, then they have given up the right to participate in events that could further the spread of the virus.

We can only move out of this when the spread is limited to a minute portion of the population as a whole. If one chooses not to participate in the vaccine program, then IMO, they choose not to participate in 'normal' daily functions either as the science has proven this puts others at risk.

 

[scott craven]

100 % !
Good post.

 

[dradons]

Its a weird world right now. Facebook and online places really aren't your friend. The pandemic has been really been weird. I have people I have known for years that I had to distance myself from based on this conspiracy theory stuff. Just way to negative.

The majority I hear opposed most of time is from millennial population which isn't surprising (no offense I know there are lot of you on forum). Basically the generation with nothing really to lose as the impact of COVID is lower. Yet their time telling older generations what to do. GenX are stuck in middle, and leaning towards boomer generation which most are pro vax and just want to get this over with. I mostly see a clash between the age groups, and you see it daily on Facebook etc.

This pandemic is making people go a bit strange, and I worry for people's mental health. The issue is no one talks face to face anymore. They just believe everything they see on social media. The ones that are weakest are easy to manipulate. Remember before pandemic many were already paranoid about government etc. This just adds to it.

What doesn't make sense and still doesn't is that it is yet again businesses directly asks for these passports to say open. Yet the public is still blaming the government/health workers.

So it's a double edge sword. The public gets mad when loans/grants are given to businesses. That support is cut now, so now businesses are scrambling to stay open.

So are all of these protesters prepared to pull out there wallets and support these businesses financially if they get shut down again? No of course they won't.

Remember no business open no jobs....

As for protesters this sums it up.

My personal anecdotal experience as a 35-year-old millennial is not the same. In my good size network of friends, everyone is vaccinated double-dosed, it never was really that much of a discussion.

Again anecdotally it is friends of my parents that are in their early 60s that have been the most vaccine skeptical and non-compliant with covid requests.

That being said, I deleted facebook 5 years ago. So, don't see the same chaos as people that have it. This forum and a few other news sites are as close I will get.

In regards to the vaccine passports and employers. I think employers get nervous about the legal ramifications of providing a safe work environment. Ensuring, everyone coming in is vaccinated does help protect everyone. Case counts/hospitalizations are much lower in the vaccinated, you can't argue with the stats.

 

[ILHG]

My personal anecdotal experience as a 35-year-old millennial is not the same. In my good size network of friends, everyone is vaccinated double-dosed, it never was really that much of a discussion.

Again anecdotally it is friends of my parents that are in their early 60s that have been the most vaccine skeptical and non-compliant with covid requests.

That being said, I deleted facebook 5 years ago. So, don't see the same chaos as people that have it. This forum and a few other news sites are as close I will get.

In regards to the vaccine passports and employers. I think employers get nervous about the legal ramifications of providing a safe work environment. Ensuring, everyone coming in is vaccinated does help protect everyone. Case counts/hospitalizations are much lower in the vaccinated, you can't argue with the stats.

I'm 38yrs old and almost everyone in my circle is double Vax. The majority of non Vax folks I have come across are from the rual & remote areas. With my job I am out around remote & Rual Alberta often. It's crazy how few are vaccinated. Any restrictions or passports won't work because they only come to urban areas for essentials like groceries.

I think it's because the folks outside of urban areas haven't seen or felt first hand the pandemic. I often hear, "I'm yet to meet anyone who has actually caught covid". Where as folks in and around the city have been in the eye of the storm.

I live outside Calgary but work in Calgary. I have been through some crazy waves of covid. My office got infected in one day and had to shut down. Over 1/2 the pepole I know have caught it or there immediate family had it. That is why vaccine uptake in the urban areas is so high.

Like @SpringVelocity said, "these are messed up times". Folks are stressed to the limit and on edge. I'm so tired of all the fighting and devision. I thought getting back together with friends and family this summer would be the best... I quickly found out pepoles minds had been greatly affected and hard to be around.

I admit I know it's affected me. It's gotten alot better, but earlier on my emotions would flood and EBB like the tide. Just felt like a pile of micro stresses where bringing me down. Of course me drinking more while stuck at home for weeks on end was not helping.

Because of this I'm am careful on how I approach folks regarding Covid. We see folks freaking out on both sides and I think the long term stresses of the pandemic on life have pepole in a mind set they would not normally be in. You push on these pepole and they will push back harder. With no sense of reason often. It's a couping reflex caused from the long term effects on mental health.

Humans have always been able to physically engage a precived threat. Either personaly or with army's. Any time the tribe was threatened we would defend... In this case we have an invisible enemy.
Look back at the thousands of years of human history and social evolution. At times when tribes or society was threatened such invisible threats such as plauge or drought it was an act of the gods. Society would allow terrible things things to happen if leaders (of faith) said it would make it better.

Sorry if I digressed or Make no sense. In short what I am trying to say is that some pepole are not in the right mind set and the stress of an invisible threat is not something we have evolved to cope with.

 

[GLG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1433475701903171584

 

[GLG]

My thinking is that continued spread of Delta in a vaccinated adult population may be a good thing.

I don't care if I get covid if the symptoms aren't severe; the point isn't really to avoid covid but to avoid getting really sick.

If the vaccine prevents major symptoms in the overwhelming majority of people, but doesn't leave them with broad enough immunity, then that much reduced Delta infection could well be the thing to give them a broader immunity, because rather than just relying on the spike protein, there's the whole image of the virus to work from, which will include a whole bunch of different protein signatures.

I think ILHG's point about the questionable utility of the vaccine in kids is very interesting. That could well be the case and I agree, it drives me insane that this kind of thing gets pushed aside out of fear that people will draw the "wrong" conclusions.

But in adults at least, double Vax plus delta could actually be exactly what you want. Potentially that will be what herd immunity looks like: when huge numbers of people have been infected with delta, a process rendered mostly harmless via vaccination.

That'd be a pretty good outcome.

This is so wrong on so many levels and I'm to exhausted to go point by point to debunk.
We should be listening to experts in the field after they have debated the best course of action for us here in BC.
Follow what our chief medical officer recommends.

 

[dradons]

I'm 38yrs old and almost everyone in my circle is double Vax. The majority of non Vax folks I have come across are from the rual & remote areas. With my job I am out around remote & Rual Alberta often. It's crazy how few are vaccinated. Any restrictions or passports won't work because they only come to urban areas for essentials like groceries.

I think it's because the folks outside of urban areas haven't seen or felt first hand the pandemic. I often hear, "I'm yet to meet anyone who has actually caught covid". Where as folks in and around the city have been in the eye of the storm.

I live outside Calgary but work in Calgary. I have been through some crazy waves of covid. My office got infected in one day and had to shut down. Over 1/2 the pepole I know have caught it or there immediate family had it. That is why vaccine uptake in the urban areas is so high.

Like @SpringVelocity said, "these are messed up times". Folks are stressed to the limit and on edge. I'm so tired of all the fighting and devision. I thought getting back together with friends and family this summer would be the best... I quickly found out pepoles minds had been greatly affected and hard to be around.

I admit I know it's affected me. It's gotten alot better, but earlier on my emotions would flood and EBB like the tide. Just felt like a pile of micro stresses where bringing me down. Of course me drinking more while stuck at home for weeks on end was not helping.

Because of this I'm am careful on how I approach folks regarding Covid. We see folks freaking out on both sides and I think the long term stresses of the pandemic on life have pepole in a mind set they would not normally be in. You push on these pepole and they will push back harder. With no sense of reason often. It's a couping reflex caused from the long term effects on mental health.

Humans have always been able to physically engage a precived threat. Either personaly or with army's. Any time the tribe was threatened we would defend... In this case we have an invisible enemy.
Look back at the thousands of years of human history and social evolution. At times when tribes or society was threatened such invisible threats such as plauge or drought it was an act of the gods. Society would allow terrible things things to happen if leaders (of faith) said it would make it better.

Sorry if I digressed or Make no sense. In short what I am trying to say is that some pepole are not in the right mind set and the stress of an invisible threat is not something we have evolved to cope with.

Oh yeah, It is tough. My own parents went to the Caribbean last winter when things were very uncertain and dicey. I had to deal with that and we had a fair bit of disagreement about it that we have come to terms with. Thankfully, they are pro-vaccine and have been vaccinated. They are just very social and the isolation was getting to them.

It really is unfortunate that people need first-hand experience with suffering to help themselves and others. However, I guess part of that is human nature.

 

[wildmanyeah]

My thinking is that continued spread of Delta in a vaccinated adult population may be a good thing.

I don't care if I get covid if the symptoms aren't severe; the point isn't really to avoid covid but to avoid getting really sick.

If the vaccine prevents major symptoms in the overwhelming majority of people, but doesn't leave them with broad enough immunity, then that much reduced Delta infection could well be the thing to give them a broader immunity, because rather than just relying on the spike protein, there's the whole image of the virus to work from, which will include a whole bunch of different protein signatures.

I think ILHG's point about the questionable utility of the vaccine in kids is very interesting. That could well be the case and I agree, it drives me insane that this kind of thing gets pushed aside out of fear that people will draw the "wrong" conclusions.

But in adults at least, double Vax plus delta could actually be exactly what you want. Potentially that will be what herd immunity looks like: when huge numbers of people have been infected with delta, a process rendered mostly harmless via vaccination.

That'd be a pretty good outcome.

as soon as the kids under 12 are vaccinated. Will see public Heath treat covid like the flu. We may see some seasonal mask wearing, will see.

 

[wildmanyeah]

The problem is the current government has given credence to the idea that the finite balance of the economy doesn't exist. They've shut everything down, given everyone money, racked up debt and now have the balls to ask for another term. To the weak mind, none of this matters. "The budget will balance itself." The economic impact is now irrelevant. Job security is irrelevant. The well-being of our seniors and children is irrelevant. It's a scary f***ing time.

exactly why we have inflation. People have more money now then they did before the pandemic.

 

[bigdogg1]

100 % !
Good post.

Thx Scott

 

[GLG]

OMG I didn’t think we had this many nut jobs living in Canada. What a bunch of culls!

Yes we have but notice the bold text at the end of column

The protests were organized by Canadian Frontline Nurses, a group founded by two Ontario nurses known for promoting conspiracy theories about COVID-19 and attending rallies in the U.S. for those who believe the pandemic is a "fraud."

These are the ones behind this nonsense and I have posted about these two before.
What else have they been up to you ask.

The U.S.-Canada border is mostly closed, but Canadians made it to last week’s Capitol siege​

TORONTO — Despite strict limits on nonessential travel between Canada and the United States, two Canadian nurses active in the so-called "anti-lockdown" movement made it to Washington for the Jan. 6 rally that preceded the deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol.

The women, Sarah Choujounian and Kristen Nagle, were part of a group of American and Canadian health-care professionals calling themselves the “Global Frontline Nurses” who gathered in Washington that day, according to a news release, video from the scene and social media posts.
In the hours before President Trump’s rally at the Ellipse, they held a small event in downtown Washington where both spoke. A live stream posted to Facebook by another nurse in the group that afternoon shows Choujounian on the steps of the Capitol amid a large crowd.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...31c702-5434-11eb-a08b-f1381ef3d207_story.html

The next question to ask is where is the money coming from to back these nutbars?
I think I know but I'll wait for the pros to confirm.

 

[sly_karma]

We should be listening to experts in the field after they have debated the best course of action for us here in BC.
Follow what our chief medical officer recommends.

This, this, this. We have a bona fide expert in charge and she has the full data and resources of the ministry to assist her decision making. There is no one better qualified and supported to formulate and enact policy for BC than Dr Henry and her team.

I guess it is part of human nature to question authority, but thinking people take a look at the other opinions and recognize them for just that: opinions.

 

[Dragos]