All Things COVID-19

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dradons said:
The sad thing is that is not a handful of wingnuts. The Q movement or whatever they are currently calling it has taken pretty strong roots in the United States and those crazy stories get lapped up pretty hard. The crazy thing with conspiracy theorists is that every once and awhile they get it right, but because they are always coming up with crazy **** it gets ignored.

Big tech and the media are absolutely shameful and society definitely needs to do something. Facebook clearly has too much power in all directions and is ripe for mass manipulations with the ability to buy content, censor, etc, etc. I really think these sites are ruining people's ability to critically think as people are just fed articles that confirm their biases. Personally, I have quit all these sites years ago to try and get out of my own echo chamber. It still happens and you have to pause and think when viewing articles online or discussing with friends(we all have our inherent biases)

I really think the US media and US politicians deserve a lot of blame for the insanity. Trump had been so bombastic the 4 years leading up to the onset of the virus that many could not take him seriously. The Fox News/CNN is just a shitshow of opinion people yelling at each other with no real journalism going on. Not going to lie would wake up a few mornings, read a couple of headlines and wonder if I woke up in the wrong timeline.

I think we really need to teach critical thinking/logic in high school, elect better politicians, have the media do journalism and not the constant editorials/opinion, and somehow reign big tech/social media in(This is pandora's box sadly). Also, we really need to hold China accountable if this came from a lab and they squashed the information.
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If you interested, the whole podcast is very good but you can skip to the ~60 minute mark, it's enlightening.
 
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EKOS Research
Still good news even though vaccine resistance is a little high in Alberta.

E2gt7W7WEAACWRf
 
GLG said:
If you interested, the whole podcast is very good but you can skip to the ~60 minute mark, it's enlightening.
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I haven't got time to watch this now, but Peter Daszak personally signed off on the grant application for what's her name, Shi, the Chinese researcher who was studying ways to maximize human transmission of bat coronaviruses in Wuhan. Out of everyone in this whole mess, he's probably the single most conflicted and ethically compromised player.

Incidentally, the vast majority of that research was being carried out under BSL2 conditions, or about what you could expect in a typical dentist's office, and that's where three researchers got so sick with an unknown virus in September of 2019 they had to be hospitalized.
 
cracked_ribs said:
I haven't got time to watch this now, but Peter Daszak personally signed off on the grant application for what's her name, Shi, the Chinese researcher who was studying ways to maximize human transmission of bat coronaviruses in Wuhan. Out of everyone in this whole mess, he's probably the single most conflicted and ethically compromised player.

Incidentally, the vast majority of that research was being carried out under BSL2 conditions, or about what you could expect in a typical dentist's office, and that's where three researchers got so sick with an unknown virus in September of 2019 they had to be hospitalized.
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Show me the genetic evidence.
 
The lab escape concept is a theory, an unproven one. So too is the animal-to-human concept. Unproven theories are unproven. Not definitive and not absolute fact. A WSJ article is not proof. That the Chinese govt is uncooperative is not proof of anything either. They are famously averse to anything that casts the regime in a bad light. Hell, any western liberal democracy worth its salt plays coverup (aka 'spin') nonstop to keep opinion poll numbers going in the right direction.

There are lessons to be learnt here, about very early days handling of a virus new to human populations, and about lab safety protocols. These investigations are perfectly reasonable and necessary. But we have no solid proof of what happened yet and it is disingenuous to imply otherwise.
 
sly_karma said:
The lab escape concept is a theory, an unproven one. So too is the animal-to-human concept. Unproven theories are unproven. Not definitive and not absolute fact. A WSJ article is not proof. That the Chinese govt is uncooperative is not proof of anything either. They are famously averse to anything that casts the regime in a bad light. Hell, any western liberal democracy worth its salt plays coverup (aka 'spin') nonstop to keep opinion poll numbers going in the right direction.

There are lessons to be learnt here, about very early days handling of a virus new to human populations, and about lab safety protocols. These investigations are perfectly reasonable and necessary. But we have no solid proof of what happened yet and it is disingenuous to imply otherwise.
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If it wasn't a lab leak, the fact that a novel coronavirus just happened to emerge in Wuhan would be one of history's greatest coincidences.

if the Wuhan Institute of Virology turns out to have no connection to the birth of the COVID-19 pandemic, then a novel coronavirus with likely origins in bats will have coincidentally started infecting humans within walking distance of a lab that just happens to be the world centre of studying highly infectious bat coronaviruses.
 
sly_karma said:
The lab escape concept is a theory, an unproven one. So too is the animal-to-human concept. Unproven theories are unproven. Not definitive and not absolute fact. A WSJ article is not proof. That the Chinese govt is uncooperative is not proof of anything either. They are famously averse to anything that casts the regime in a bad light. Hell, any western liberal democracy worth its salt plays coverup (aka 'spin') nonstop to keep opinion poll numbers going in the right direction.

There are lessons to be learnt here, about very early days handling of a virus new to human populations, and about lab safety protocols. These investigations are perfectly reasonable and necessary. But we have no solid proof of what happened yet and it is disingenuous to imply otherwise.
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The standards with such things as I understand it is either "Beyond A Reasonable doubt" or the lower civil "Balance of Probabilities". Absolute Solid Proof is not necessary and with sufficient circumstantial evidence you can reach a valid conclusion. In my view, there is already considerable circumstantial evidence and more seems to be coming to light, despite the obvious attempts of a very powerful state to suppress it. Will we get a direct confession from the research facility staff or lab tests for Covid done on samples taken at the time from the virus research facility workers who ended up being admitted to hospital with Covid like symptoms, I suspect not, not if they want to keep breathing? If it does not meet the Balance of Probabilities Standard yet, it seems to me, it is getting closer, much closer.
 
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Wether it came from a lab or not one thing seems certain is that it came from some sort of wuhan bat soup. That pretty much what people were saying day one.

www.cnn.com

We need to know how Covid-19 emerged so we can stop it happening again

Why does the theory that SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, leaked from a laboratory in China endure so persistently?
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

Also the theory that it came from Italy or in on frozen food that the Chinese government has been pushing holds less merit then the lab theory. Tho you will be called racist if you say it came from China but perfectly accept owl to say the variant game from UK or India.
 
cracked_ribs said:
The lab leak hypothesis is just that. The only evidence for it is circumstantial.

It's just that it's also overwhelming.

But the problem isn't that we aren't assuming it's correct...the problem is that it was suppressed in the name of preventing the spread of misinformation.
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The even bigger problem is that even if we could prove it was a dubious plan from China there ain't sweet FA we could do about it. JT would still kiss their asses. I hope we never have to "stand up" to China or we'll really be exposed as useless.
 

Death bed denials, pandemic 'hoax' accusations common in southern Manitoba hospital patients, doctor says​

Majority of COVID-19 patients at Boundary Trails Health Centre unvaccinated​


May 29, 2021

A southern Manitoba hospital physician says staff are exhausted by a recent crush of admissions, but they're also up against something else that's draining energy and morale.

Staff at Boundary Trails Health Centre are routinely hearing from sick and unvaccinated patients who believe the pandemic is a hoax — some remaining defiant even on the brink of death.

"We hear this almost every day, and I know that's startling," said Dr. Ganesan Abbu. "It's difficult ... to know that almost 100 per cent of our admissions have not been vaccinated."
Abbu is an anesthetist and special care unit doctor at Boundary Trails, located over 100 kilometres southwest of Winnipeg and between Morden and Winkler.

The district surrounding the two small cities has the lowest vaccination rate in the province, according to provincial data.

More and more patients have flowed in during the past two weeks amid Manitoba's third wave. Abbu says he and many coworkers are waking up before dawn to start work lately just to keep up.

The hospital has converted two of its medicine and surgery units into COVID-19 areas, he said. The hospital also experienced an oxygen shortage over the weekend based on the increasing number of COVID-19 patients being put on ventilators.

Boundary Trails nurses and the lone respiratory therapist in the hospital have shouldered the heaviest workload burden, said Abbu.

Staff are also being confronted with something beyond the painstaking hours caring for more people than usual.
"I think nurses have found it difficult to handle a community, certain segments of the community, who believe that this is a hoax, that the virus doesn't exist, and other untruths, like the vaccine is going to put a chip into each one of us who's been vaccinated and people will be able to track us," he said.

"It flies in the face of the efforts of nurses and health-care staff who are really extending themselves to help the community in need."

Some staff are having to deal with family members who are frustrated they can't see their loved ones in hospital or believe they died of something other than COVID-19.

It's not uncommon for people to flout rules and enter the hospital without a mask on either, he said.
"They say, you know, it's a hoax," he said. "We hear this all the time."

Abbu has personally experienced patients who, even nearing death, remained in denial and continued to assert untruths about the pandemic.
"I've had two patients who have died and even right until the time that they died, they didn't believe that they had it," Abbu said.

"It's not as though we are trying to get the patient to acknowledge that they have COVID before they die. These patients are so much in denial, they are volunteering this information."

Abbu said one patient who didn't believe they had COVID-19 went home and later died. The family of another patient who died didn't believe it was due to COVID-19 and asked if they could have an autopsy to confirm, he said.

Though Abbu says it's only a "vociferous minority" of people in the Southern Health Region who don't take COVID-19 seriously, what Boundary Trails staff are seeing in the hospital is part of a larger issue.

Southern Health has the lowest vaccine uptake rates by region in Manitoba. Just over 40 per cent of people there have received at least one dose, which is about 15 to 20 per cent lower than any of the other four regions.

Manitoba health officials have had to team up with local religious and community leaders recently to try to spur vaccine uptake. Though the needle appears to be moving in the right direction in some communities, progress is slow.
As of Friday, about 12 per cent of the Stanley health district, which surrounds Winkler and Morden, had received a dose — a figure twice what it was a month ago.

Rates in Winkler health district increased from just shy of 14 per cent late last month to almost 24 per cent. Vaccination rates were 49 per cent in the Morden health district specifically on Friday, compared to 36 per cent in neighbouring Altona health district, and about 37 per cent in Hanover and Steinbach districts.

Provincial officials and religious leaders in the south have explained that vaccine hesitancy is linked to distrust of government with roots that stretch back decades or longer. That includes religious groups who have experienced historic harms at the hand of governments abroad before immigrating to Canada, including Mennonite communities.

Abbu said if he encounters a patient in the clinic who is relatively well who brings up false notions of the pandemic, he may talk to them about the evidence to the contrary.

He takes a different tack when dealing with gravely ill patients, especially when they're laid up in a hospital bed teetering on the brink.

"I try never to challenge a patient, not in that situation," he said.

"You need to earn their trust. They have to believe that you're going to do everything possible to help them survive this, and that is what I want."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winkler-doctor-hospital-vaccine-hesitancy-1.6044904
 
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GLG said:

Death bed denials, pandemic 'hoax' accusations common in southern Manitoba hospital patients, doctor says​

Majority of COVID-19 patients at Boundary Trails Health Centre unvaccinated​


May 29, 2021

A southern Manitoba hospital physician says staff are exhausted by a recent crush of admissions, but they're also up against something else that's draining energy and morale.

Staff at Boundary Trails Health Centre are routinely hearing from sick and unvaccinated patients who believe the pandemic is a hoax — some remaining defiant even on the brink of death.

"We hear this almost every day, and I know that's startling," said Dr. Ganesan Abbu. "It's difficult ... to know that almost 100 per cent of our admissions have not been vaccinated."
Abbu is an anesthetist and special care unit doctor at Boundary Trails, located over 100 kilometres southwest of Winnipeg and between Morden and Winkler.

The district surrounding the two small cities has the lowest vaccination rate in the province, according to provincial data.

More and more patients have flowed in during the past two weeks amid Manitoba's third wave. Abbu says he and many coworkers are waking up before dawn to start work lately just to keep up.

The hospital has converted two of its medicine and surgery units into COVID-19 areas, he said. The hospital also experienced an oxygen shortage over the weekend based on the increasing number of COVID-19 patients being put on ventilators.

Boundary Trails nurses and the lone respiratory therapist in the hospital have shouldered the heaviest workload burden, said Abbu.

Staff are also being confronted with something beyond the painstaking hours caring for more people than usual.
"I think nurses have found it difficult to handle a community, certain segments of the community, who believe that this is a hoax, that the virus doesn't exist, and other untruths, like the vaccine is going to put a chip into each one of us who's been vaccinated and people will be able to track us," he said.

"It flies in the face of the efforts of nurses and health-care staff who are really extending themselves to help the community in need."

Some staff are having to deal with family members who are frustrated they can't see their loved ones in hospital or believe they died of something other than COVID-19.

It's not uncommon for people to flout rules and enter the hospital without a mask on either, he said.
"They say, you know, it's a hoax," he said. "We hear this all the time."

Abbu has personally experienced patients who, even nearing death, remained in denial and continued to assert untruths about the pandemic.
"I've had two patients who have died and even right until the time that they died, they didn't believe that they had it," Abbu said.

"It's not as though we are trying to get the patient to acknowledge that they have COVID before they die. These patients are so much in denial, they are volunteering this information."

Abbu said one patient who didn't believe they had COVID-19 went home and later died. The family of another patient who died didn't believe it was due to COVID-19 and asked if they could have an autopsy to confirm, he said.

Though Abbu says it's only a "vociferous minority" of people in the Southern Health Region who don't take COVID-19 seriously, what Boundary Trails staff are seeing in the hospital is part of a larger issue.

Southern Health has the lowest vaccine uptake rates by region in Manitoba. Just over 40 per cent of people there have received at least one dose, which is about 15 to 20 per cent lower than any of the other four regions.

Manitoba health officials have had to team up with local religious and community leaders recently to try to spur vaccine uptake. Though the needle appears to be moving in the right direction in some communities, progress is slow.
As of Friday, about 12 per cent of the Stanley health district, which surrounds Winkler and Morden, had received a dose — a figure twice what it was a month ago.

Rates in Winkler health district increased from just shy of 14 per cent late last month to almost 24 per cent. Vaccination rates were 49 per cent in the Morden health district specifically on Friday, compared to 36 per cent in neighbouring Altona health district, and about 37 per cent in Hanover and Steinbach districts.

Provincial officials and religious leaders in the south have explained that vaccine hesitancy is linked to distrust of government with roots that stretch back decades or longer. That includes religious groups who have experienced historic harms at the hand of governments abroad before immigrating to Canada, including Mennonite communities.

Abbu said if he encounters a patient in the clinic who is relatively well who brings up false notions of the pandemic, he may talk to them about the evidence to the contrary.

He takes a different tack when dealing with gravely ill patients, especially when they're laid up in a hospital bed teetering on the brink.

"I try never to challenge a patient, not in that situation," he said.

"You need to earn their trust. They have to believe that you're going to do everything possible to help them survive this, and that is what I want."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winkler-doctor-hospital-vaccine-hesitancy-1.6044904
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This is very alarming and true. WE have many relatives in Manitoba and they are very upset with all the disbelievers. That particular area is heavily populated with Mennonite and Hutterite communities that thinks it's all a hoax and that God will protect them. :eek:
 
Aces said:
This is very alarming and true. WE have many relatives in Manitoba and they are very upset with all the disbelievers. That particular area is heavily populated with Mennonite and Hutterite communities that thinks it's all a hoax and that God will protect them. :eek:
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I don't consider myself a religious person and I'm not trying to be funny, but if I was, I think God would be saying, "But I've sent you 4 vaccines already."
 
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