2010 Halibut Catch Recommendations

[Little Hawk]

Bog: To imply that our government won't - "...never going to happen." -
reverse a decision made in favor of one user group at the expense of others is simply wrong and rather defeatist in my view.

Historically, government's have bent to the winds of public opinion and successful court-challenges. Us hali-sportie's, although a small group, have been jewed long enough on our rightful piece of the pie here. The bottom-line is that it IS a public resource belonging to ALL CANADIANS and NO GOVERNMENT has or ever had the right to bequeath the majority of these fish to ANY select group. The 'sporties' are indeed being discriminated against here.</u>

This fact would soon become evident and reversed in a court of law.

"Some could care less if there's any fish left for our kids!"

 

[Bogman]

Little Hawk, I am about as far away from a defeatest as it gets. I spent too many years fighting and negotiating in and for the commercial sector to be a defeatest. What I am is a realist, and having those years behind me on those boards gives me a good idea of what goes on. I am not arrogant enough to to say that 88/12 will never change but I am a gambler and would be willing to bet at this time it won't. If in the future 88/12 does change the commercial halibut license holders will get compensated in some way ,shape or form ,that I will bet on. When the commercial sector and the sports sector come to a mutual aggreement on how to accomplish this government WILL listen . The answer lies with those two sectors working together for a mutual interest instead of name calling and "oh poor is me attitudes". Government loves nothing more than keeping the infighting going . They have and still do it in the commercial sector between the seiners, gillnetters and trollers on the salmon and in the groundfish also. AS long as we fight amoungst ourselves as lodge owners ,charter operators and joe fisherman the government is happy. If we all get together commercial ,sports and as much as it pains me, the natives , we MAY get some where.

"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"

 

[Bogman]

Little Hawk, I am about as far away from a defeatest as it gets. I spent too many years fighting and negotiating in and for the commercial sector to be a defeatest. What I am is a realist, and having those years behind me on those boards gives me a good idea of what goes on. I am not arrogant enough to to say that 88/12 will never change but I am a gambler and would be willing to bet at this time it won't. If in the future 88/12 does change the commercial halibut license holders will get compensated in some way ,shape or form ,that I will bet on. When the commercial sector and the sports sector come to a mutual aggreement on how to accomplish this government WILL listen . The answer lies with those two sectors working together for a mutual interest instead of name calling and "oh poor is me attitudes". Government loves nothing more than keeping the infighting going . They have and still do it in the commercial sector between the seiners, gillnetters and trollers on the salmon and in the groundfish also. AS long as we fight amoungst ourselves as lodge owners ,charter operators and joe fisherman the government is happy. If we all get together commercial ,sports and as much as it pains me, the natives , we MAY get some where.

"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"

 

[searun]

I have to agree with Bogman. Doubtful we will see any change to the allocation mix as there is simply too much liability the Gov't would assume by making that decision. So their hands are tied, actually chained especially given this is an internationally regulated fishery. Canada is only one player in the mix. We are kidding ourselves if we really think the Minister can make an allocation adjustment without significant legal issues. Bogman is correct in his assessment that the solution will come only when both Commercial and Recreational sectors can get together and work out a compromise that both can sign off on.

Searun

 

[searun]

I have to agree with Bogman. Doubtful we will see any change to the allocation mix as there is simply too much liability the Gov't would assume by making that decision. So their hands are tied, actually chained especially given this is an internationally regulated fishery. Canada is only one player in the mix. We are kidding ourselves if we really think the Minister can make an allocation adjustment without significant legal issues. Bogman is correct in his assessment that the solution will come only when both Commercial and Recreational sectors can get together and work out a compromise that both can sign off on.

Searun

 

[fisher69]

quote:Originally posted by Bogman

So Fisher69 ,you seem to know who I am ,do I know you?

"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"

definitely

 

[fisher69]

quote:Originally posted by wolf

For once im on rollies side on this issue as i stated before its not a conservation issue and ill stand by that, the amount of moneies generated by sport fishing is leaps and bounds compared to what commercial brings to our province and dfo knows this and they turn a blind eye to it .... what a shame.

Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

if it's worth that much to you then step up and buy it.

Do you mind explaining what and when you would call it a conservation issue?? Is it when we have killed enough off so the spawning biomass is decimated and nobody fishes for years until it rebuilds. If that's the case then maybe you should take up golf or bird watching.

 

[wolf]

Yep thats why this will always fail fellow anglers blaming everyone and not working together!!!!!

Maybe attend a sfab meeting and listen to the dfo reps and Chris and SEE all the numbers then maybe you will see where it is all happening. but if you dont want to then keep uttering remarks as I can take it Ive got big enough sholders to take the load.


BTW I do bird watch often when they fall out of the sky after Ive shot them with my shotgun ducks,geese,grouse doesnt matter to me they all taste good, golfing not so much enjoy fishing more

Thanks Wolf

Blue Wolf Charters
www.bluewolfcharters.com

 

[Bogman]

quote:Originally posted by fisher69

quote:Originally posted by Bogman

So Fisher69 ,you seem to know who I am ,do I know you?

"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"

definitely

Well send me an email then

"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"

 

[chris73]

Believe me, after being defeated in court government will address this mess accordingly. And we sporties do not need the commercial's approval and agreement to get what we want. We just need to get our $hit together and bring it to court. Nice try by some of you here though to try convincing us here to roll over and pay up so you can benefit even further from this injustice! Too obvious who on here has a conflict of interest through a past or still current connection to the Hali-commercial side. Rest assured we are not that dumb and just fall over like we have in the past. Times have changed and sportfishermen have woken up! Smart people with a true heart for sportfishing in BC are getting in influencial positions these day.

 

[Bogman]

Chris, I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that your last statement was directed at me. Just thought I would make it clear that I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. I ,like most others here, am just stating my humble opinion. I have no conflict of interest of any kind. I am a business man who made a sucessfull living in the commercial fishing industry for 30 years and now I am out of that sector and run a sport fishing lodge. Other than alot of good memories and friends I have NO finacial or political ties to the commercial sector.

"Who would have ever thought it would be this much fun catching them one at a time"

 

[Cuba Libre]

This is spin doctoring at its best:

quote:The real numbers on halibut fishing
Courier-Islander
Published: Wednesday, December 30, 2009
I recently read, with interest, an article in your paper that read "equal rights to fish for all Canadians." The writer is correct, all Canadians deserve access to Canada's resources. I did some research and found some interesting facts. There were 244,878 resident tidal water sport licenses, and 43,528 non resident tidal water sport licenses for the Pacific region issued this year. The recreational halibut allocation is 12 percent of the total allowable catch of Pacific halibut. There are thirty three million three hundred and eleven thousand people in Canada as of 2008. This means that 0.87 percent of the people are taking 12 percent of the B.C. halibut. Is that really equal share? Even if B.C. is left alone in the equation and non resident anglers are removed there is 244,878 licenses, and four million four hundred nineteen thousand people in B.C. This gives 5.5 percent of the people taking 12 percent of the halibut. It seems to me that the non sport fishing, non boat owning majority of Canada is getting ripped off royally by the sport fishing sector who still wants more of the resource.

There is a misconception that the commercial halibut fleet in B.C. catches 88 percent of the fish and then takes it home and rolls around in it, or something top secret is done with it. Well it is not quite like that. The commercial halibut fleet is the only way that the majority of halibut eating Canadians can legally access this fine food either in a fish store, restaurant, or right off the boat at the many government docks on our coast. The government of Canada licenses these vessels so they can assure the majority of Canadians a reliable, safe, access to this fine fish. I think if I was a politician in Ottawa I would rather have 0.87 percent of the people unhappy instead of 99 percent of the population.

Richie Shaw,


Sointula B.C.

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

 

[Tofinoguy]

quote:Originally posted by Cuba Libre

This is spin doctoring at its best:

quote:The real numbers on halibut fishing
Courier-Islander
Published: Wednesday, December 30, 2009
I recently read, with interest, an article in your paper that read "equal rights to fish for all Canadians." The writer is correct, all Canadians deserve access to Canada's resources. I did some research and found some interesting facts. There were 244,878 resident tidal water sport licenses, and 43,528 non resident tidal water sport licenses for the Pacific region issued this year. The recreational halibut allocation is 12 percent of the total allowable catch of Pacific halibut. There are thirty three million three hundred and eleven thousand people in Canada as of 2008. This means that 0.87 percent of the people are taking 12 percent of the B.C. halibut. Is that really equal share? Even if B.C. is left alone in the equation and non resident anglers are removed there is 244,878 licenses, and four million four hundred nineteen thousand people in B.C. This gives 5.5 percent of the people taking 12 percent of the halibut. It seems to me that the non sport fishing, non boat owning majority of Canada is getting ripped off royally by the sport fishing sector who still wants more of the resource.

There is a misconception that the commercial halibut fleet in B.C. catches 88 percent of the fish and then takes it home and rolls around in it, or something top secret is done with it. Well it is not quite like that. The commercial halibut fleet is the only way that the majority of halibut eating Canadians can legally access this fine food either in a fish store, restaurant, or right off the boat at the many government docks on our coast. The government of Canada licenses these vessels so they can assure the majority of Canadians a reliable, safe, access to this fine fish. I think if I was a politician in Ottawa I would rather have 0.87 percent of the people unhappy instead of 99 percent of the population.

Richie Shaw,


Sointula B.C.

20ft Alumaweld Intruder

Thanks for the heads up Cuba Libre.
What a pile of crap. My blood started to boil when i read that drivel. [)]

 

[Tailspin]

Let me get my waders on Quick...So much B.S to wade through here[xx(]

www.tailspincharters.com

 

[fisher69]

quote:Originally posted by Tailspin

Let me get my waders on Quick...So much B.S to wade through here[xx(]

www.tailspincharters.com

LMAO pretty funny when the numbers are spun in a different way. Still not quite as bad as the voodoo economics used by the SFI and SFAB. Good article.

 

[chris73]

What a lush fart this article is! That clown should look one second at the economic benefits to the Canadian society generated from a public resource and everything is crystal clear.

 

[searun]

Actually, I concur with his point.[:0] For the vast majority of Canadians the only way to access halibut is through fish purchased from the Commercial fishery. I'm at a loss as to why more sport fishers are not able to wrap their minds around the simple fact that the Commercial Fishing interests have a legal</u> and legitimate right of access to this fishery.

Historically the sport fishery was not even close to exploiting 12% of the TAC. Not until the expansion of the sport fishing effort</u> at the same time we encountered a conservation problem or decline as it were of the available catchable biomass has it been that we exceeded 12%. Probemo for us sporties.

Now we are sitting there greedily wanting more quota, blaming everyone but...whom...ourselves. Man up as my kid would say. Time for us sporties to start thinking about how we can be true conservationalists before we become part of the problem and fish out the last remaining hali's.

This is precisely the problem that the the Fed Gov't faces when we ask for a larger share in the TAC...it becomes a legal liability and one the DFO managers have to balance as the vast majority of Canadian tax paying folks can only access halibut from commercially caught sources</u>.

Time for us in the sport fishing community to step back and assess our actual position in the game. Our only hope is to work with the commercial sector to find a mutually beneficial solution.</u> If we can't get to that place, we are destined to a whole lot more world of hurt and frustration fighting the machine for something we don't have a snow ball's chance in hell of changing.

Sorry to sound so harsh on this topic, but I think we have to remove the plank in our own eye before we pull out the sliver in our neigbour's eye. The Commercial sector is not the enemy...rather, they stand to become just as much a victim as the sport fisher's in this DFO mis-management fiasco. Time for all parties to work hard to find win/win solutions...none of us are going away, so it is time we learned to work together.




Searun

 

[profisher]

Searun, if you believe that halibut (or any fish for that matter) stocks were intended for world wide consumption/for profit by an out of control human population then I guess you are right. Somehow that seems twisted and so far from the original design!!

 

[searun]

Sorry, but I firmly believe it should be fish first that motivates our actions, followed then by our interests. If there are no fish, our interests do not matter.

My point is we need to start accepting accountability for our actions and impacts on the resource, and part of the way forward is to start thinking more about the needs and interests of the folks we intend on working with, or if you can't accept working with them at least understand how to effectively negotiate.

Our problem is we care too much about the "outcome" and not enough about the process of finding win/win solutions that respect the interests of all concerned. We will fail in our effort to negotiate any solution to this if we are not prepared to think and listen to the perspective of the folks (commercial) we seek to ultimately negotiate with.

I sat in a seminar with the best negotiator in the world, and his advice was simple..."I care, but not that much." Meaning, if we are too invested in the outcome we will not listen to the needs/wants of the person we are negotiating with, and as a consequence we will not be able to find ways to get them to agree with our point of view because the entire focus of our negotiation is our interest only. Further, when we are too invested in the outcome we betray our own agenda to the opposition......as a consequence we generally lose.

So, time to start thinking more about how we can work together by listening carefully to the other side and respecting their position. Only then can we move away from both parties becoming victims of DFO's sad effort to mis manage this fishery.

Searun

 

[searun]

Oops, sorry Rob, posted before I noticed your post...I concur with you 100%...funny, we both stated the focus must be fish first</u>....I think the Police called that "syncronicity". Too funny!

Anyways, hope everyone can take my comments for the spirit they are intended - that is to suggest an alternative to the direction we have been headed on this topic. I do believe we all ultimately want the same thing, whether we be sport or commercial fishers.



Searun