Dave S
Active Member
What he said. Dont worry bout it!
2 hooks in hootchies?
- Thread starter juandesooka
- Start date
What he said. Dont worry bout it!
the fog ducker
Well-Known Member
not tryin ta be an butt , i think a few on here answered that.... DFO is OK with it , face ta face even !!!
again , as stated by a few Salty's , " Dont Worry About It ....... : )
sounds like more of a debate on whether hoochies should be rigged with singles or tandems , what ever ur confident with i guess , i rarely use hoochies anymore personally...,,,
FD
Time
Well-Known Member
I think this might be a new line in the regulations, and probably was put in to counter an Ontario fishing method that I recall was discussed on here some years back..
"It is illegal to ... angle with a fishing line to which more than one hook, artificial lure or artificial fly is attached except...in tidal waters any number of hooks attached to a fishing line if the hooks are used in combination to hold a single piece of bait"
The idea, and I presume it is still practiced, is after lowering your downrigger with line attached like we do, a second lure with leader and a snap swivel attached is clipped onto the fishing line. This second lure is allowed to 'float' down until it is held in the belly that forms in the line , with the drag or resistance of the lure in the water helping to accenuate the belly in the line between the rod tip and the release clip (where the line is attached). The fishing line forms a rough "C" shape between the rod tip and the release clip. The belly of the fishing line would be about half way to the release clip, so the second lure would be held there and not interfere with the action of the lower flasher and lure.
Should a fish strike the upper lure, it would cause the line to be released from the clip, the snap swivel slides down the line until it's stopped by the flasher or a swivel at the lower tackle and the fight is on. If a fish hits the lower gear, then it's fought normally, and the upper lure again slides down until it's slide is stopped by the lower tackle.
I guess you would just have to watch for that second set of hooks while landing a fish.
When somebody (from Ontario) posed a question a few years ago about the legality of the method in BC, there were no regs covering so, so as I said, I think this is a new line.
"It is illegal to ... angle with a fishing line to which more than one hook, artificial lure or artificial fly is attached except...in tidal waters any number of hooks attached to a fishing line if the hooks are used in combination to hold a single piece of bait"
The idea, and I presume it is still practiced, is after lowering your downrigger with line attached like we do, a second lure with leader and a snap swivel attached is clipped onto the fishing line. This second lure is allowed to 'float' down until it is held in the belly that forms in the line , with the drag or resistance of the lure in the water helping to accenuate the belly in the line between the rod tip and the release clip (where the line is attached). The fishing line forms a rough "C" shape between the rod tip and the release clip. The belly of the fishing line would be about half way to the release clip, so the second lure would be held there and not interfere with the action of the lower flasher and lure.
Should a fish strike the upper lure, it would cause the line to be released from the clip, the snap swivel slides down the line until it's stopped by the flasher or a swivel at the lower tackle and the fight is on. If a fish hits the lower gear, then it's fought normally, and the upper lure again slides down until it's slide is stopped by the lower tackle.
I guess you would just have to watch for that second set of hooks while landing a fish.
When somebody (from Ontario) posed a question a few years ago about the legality of the method in BC, there were no regs covering so, so as I said, I think this is a new line.
adanac
Well-Known Member
After reading a few posts in this thread i'm thinking of switching all of my tandems oover for a barrel swivel - Siwash rigging as it seems much more simple to rig. One question i have is what size Siwash do you guys generally use for these? I've always been a tandem hook rig and have no clue.
Whole in the Water
Well-Known Member
When using hootchies and I know I may have to release undersize fish I will us a single siwash hook set up as I is much easier to release. If t the fish are throwing a lot of hooks I will use smaller (i.e. 1/0, 2/0) tandem octopus hooks or a larger (i.e. 3/0 or 4/0) single siwash. I learned from some old commercial fishers that a larger siwash can hold a fiesty fish better.
Seafever
Well-Known Member
I have been using two hooks in my hoochies for as long as I can remember......one up,one down tied in tandem.
I've been checked at ramps by DFO several times.
All they were focussed on was whether they were barbless....which they all were...the whole tacklebox full.
They didn't mention the tandem hook issue ...ever....
In the Alberni inlet north of Polly's Point I switch to one hook though.
J-plugs (fished elsewhere) I run with two barbless trebles...they've never said anything about that...even though they looked at them.
I've been checked at ramps by DFO several times.
All they were focussed on was whether they were barbless....which they all were...the whole tacklebox full.
They didn't mention the tandem hook issue ...ever....
In the Alberni inlet north of Polly's Point I switch to one hook though.
J-plugs (fished elsewhere) I run with two barbless trebles...they've never said anything about that...even though they looked at them.
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Saxe Point
Well-Known Member
I e-mailed DFO with these questions:
"When sport fishing for salmon in tidal waters in British Columbia, can an angler fish with a "hoochie" (small rubber squid type lure) that has tandem (i.e. 2) single barbless hooks? What about a plug (i.e. a Tomic) or a spoon with tandem single barbless hooks?
Section 8 of the British Columbia Sport Fishing Regulations, 1996 ( SOR /96-137) says:
8. (1) Subject to subsections (2) to (4), no person shall angle with a fishing line to which more than one hook, artificial lure or artificial fly is attached.
(2) A person may angle in the tidal portion of the Fraser River with two hooks, artificial lures or artificial flies, attached to a fishing line.
(3) Subject to subsection (4), a person may angle in tidal waters with any number of hooks attached to a fishing line if the hooks are used in combination to hold a single piece of bait.
(4) A person who is angling in tidal waters for herring, northern anchovy, Pacific sand lance or squid may use any number of hooks on a fishing line.
I assume that the exception in subsection (3) does not apply to hoochies, plugs or spoons as they are not "bait", and therefore can only be fished with a single barbless hook - is this correct? It is unclear because s. 8(1) says that, subject to the exceptions, only one hook, "artificial lure" or "artificial fly" may be used. And while artificial fly is defined under s. 2(1) of the the regulations as being "in tidal waters, a hook, or two hooks tied in tandem, the rest of its definition excludes hoochies or plugs from being artificial flies.
Yet, surprisingly, there is no definition of "artificial lure" that I could find in the Fisheries Act or regulations, and therefore, unlike the case for artificial flies, it seems impossible to know whether an artificial lure (hoochie, plug or spoon) is allowed to have one or two hooks.
Can you assist?"
I got this very helpful reply from a Federal Fisheries Officer:
"Where regulation definitions are not provided the next best source is the dictionary. A person can fish as many hooks as they want as long as it is in a single piece of bait. You can not fish more than one hook on a line unless fishing for herring, squid, sand lance, (bait fish), etc. In artificial lures such as hootchies and plugs, a second hook is considered one that is not part of the artificial lure. Tandem hooks are okay. A hook that hangs behind the lure with the intention of foul hooking a fish would be also be considered a second hook. A second hook such as a string of squirts/hootchies on a fishing line for bottom fish would also be illegal.
The previous regulation was a person could not fish with gear designed to catch more than 1 fish at a time. The exception was baitfish. The other regulation to be aware of it is illegal to fish for salmon with barbed hooks. The test with any lure is it designed to catch the fish by the mouth. Attempting to foul hook fish other than baitfish is illegal.
Hope this helps. The Fraser River has the exception because to the Mission bridge it is considered tidal waters.
At times I also see anglers fishing for halibut with a bait attractant above their lure or bait. It would be an illegal setup if a hook was used to hold the attractant on the line. That also would be considered a second hook."
I think that clears everything up. A very prompt and helpful reply.
"When sport fishing for salmon in tidal waters in British Columbia, can an angler fish with a "hoochie" (small rubber squid type lure) that has tandem (i.e. 2) single barbless hooks? What about a plug (i.e. a Tomic) or a spoon with tandem single barbless hooks?
Section 8 of the British Columbia Sport Fishing Regulations, 1996 ( SOR /96-137) says:
8. (1) Subject to subsections (2) to (4), no person shall angle with a fishing line to which more than one hook, artificial lure or artificial fly is attached.
(2) A person may angle in the tidal portion of the Fraser River with two hooks, artificial lures or artificial flies, attached to a fishing line.
(3) Subject to subsection (4), a person may angle in tidal waters with any number of hooks attached to a fishing line if the hooks are used in combination to hold a single piece of bait.
(4) A person who is angling in tidal waters for herring, northern anchovy, Pacific sand lance or squid may use any number of hooks on a fishing line.
I assume that the exception in subsection (3) does not apply to hoochies, plugs or spoons as they are not "bait", and therefore can only be fished with a single barbless hook - is this correct? It is unclear because s. 8(1) says that, subject to the exceptions, only one hook, "artificial lure" or "artificial fly" may be used. And while artificial fly is defined under s. 2(1) of the the regulations as being "in tidal waters, a hook, or two hooks tied in tandem, the rest of its definition excludes hoochies or plugs from being artificial flies.
Yet, surprisingly, there is no definition of "artificial lure" that I could find in the Fisheries Act or regulations, and therefore, unlike the case for artificial flies, it seems impossible to know whether an artificial lure (hoochie, plug or spoon) is allowed to have one or two hooks.
Can you assist?"
I got this very helpful reply from a Federal Fisheries Officer:
"Where regulation definitions are not provided the next best source is the dictionary. A person can fish as many hooks as they want as long as it is in a single piece of bait. You can not fish more than one hook on a line unless fishing for herring, squid, sand lance, (bait fish), etc. In artificial lures such as hootchies and plugs, a second hook is considered one that is not part of the artificial lure. Tandem hooks are okay. A hook that hangs behind the lure with the intention of foul hooking a fish would be also be considered a second hook. A second hook such as a string of squirts/hootchies on a fishing line for bottom fish would also be illegal.
The previous regulation was a person could not fish with gear designed to catch more than 1 fish at a time. The exception was baitfish. The other regulation to be aware of it is illegal to fish for salmon with barbed hooks. The test with any lure is it designed to catch the fish by the mouth. Attempting to foul hook fish other than baitfish is illegal.
Hope this helps. The Fraser River has the exception because to the Mission bridge it is considered tidal waters.
At times I also see anglers fishing for halibut with a bait attractant above their lure or bait. It would be an illegal setup if a hook was used to hold the attractant on the line. That also would be considered a second hook."
I think that clears everything up. A very prompt and helpful reply.
xavier
Member
3/0 with a hoochie, 3/0 or 4/0 with a cuttlefish...
juandesooka
Active Member
Thanks Saxe good one. This is the key statement "In artificial lures such as hootchies and plugs, a second hook is considered one that is not part of the artificial lure. Tandem hooks are okay." That explanation makes sense, as this rule appears to be in place to avoid foul hooking techniques like flossing with multiple hooks. Good! However, while the DFO explanation about tandem hooks makes sense, I'm a little amused that it isn't what it says in the regs. That appears to be this person's interpretation of what the regs mean or intend, not what they actually say. But it does clarify that it's unlikely this would ever be enforced ... so, good to go!
Sorry to have started a thread about nothing, but hey, not fishing, so may as well talk about something eh? ;-)
Sorry to have started a thread about nothing, but hey, not fishing, so may as well talk about something eh? ;-)
Owen Drysdale
Member
When the fishing is amazing i wouldnt bother using the the double hook set up but cuz when realsesing smaller fish its way more harmfull but when the fishing os really slow id go with the double hooks cuz nothin is getting off if its hooked with both
Seafever
Well-Known Member
Well...if you take the actual wording of the regs into consideration.......then it would be illegal to:-
Fish with a spoon that has a hoochy on the end of it ( that's 2 artificial lures on one line)
Fish a hoochy with a chaser dummy hoochy in front of it ( "" "" "" ""')
Use a plug and run a hoochy or small spoon 2 feet behind it( Cap'n Downriggin' style)...( "" "" "" "")
Use an umbrella rig ( "" '' ''' "" "' "")
Regardless of whether the extra lure has a hook on it or not, that makes it 2 artificial lures on one line.
Some might say...."I will just use one treble on my bait"...but the treble hook is not really one hook, it is three hooks-in-one. So if you are using a packaged J-plug right out of the box...it is actually 6 hooks in total...( two trebles)
Just to stir the pot up.....
Fish with a spoon that has a hoochy on the end of it ( that's 2 artificial lures on one line)
Fish a hoochy with a chaser dummy hoochy in front of it ( "" "" "" ""')
Use a plug and run a hoochy or small spoon 2 feet behind it( Cap'n Downriggin' style)...( "" "" "" "")
Use an umbrella rig ( "" '' ''' "" "' "")
Regardless of whether the extra lure has a hook on it or not, that makes it 2 artificial lures on one line.
Some might say...."I will just use one treble on my bait"...but the treble hook is not really one hook, it is three hooks-in-one. So if you are using a packaged J-plug right out of the box...it is actually 6 hooks in total...( two trebles)
Just to stir the pot up.....
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juandesooka
Active Member
Hi Seafever:
For your first 3 examples, I believe all of them were illegal under previous years regs too ... you can't have more than one artificial lure (with a hook) on one line, period. If you mean running lures without hooks, I suspect you can have as many little gizmos you want on there, as long as just one hook. (not sure what an umbrella rig is)
For your last example ... the regs say you can have multiple hooks WITH BAIT, as long as the hooks are for affixing the bait. So, being technical, running a trailing hook is not legal. And neither is the tandem hook on your J-plug ... that's multiple hooks not used to affix bait.
But as has been pointed out above ... there's strict reading of the regs and then there is enforcement ... if DFO doesn't care, then neither should we. Carry on!
For your first 3 examples, I believe all of them were illegal under previous years regs too ... you can't have more than one artificial lure (with a hook) on one line, period. If you mean running lures without hooks, I suspect you can have as many little gizmos you want on there, as long as just one hook. (not sure what an umbrella rig is)
For your last example ... the regs say you can have multiple hooks WITH BAIT, as long as the hooks are for affixing the bait. So, being technical, running a trailing hook is not legal. And neither is the tandem hook on your J-plug ... that's multiple hooks not used to affix bait.
But as has been pointed out above ... there's strict reading of the regs and then there is enforcement ... if DFO doesn't care, then neither should we. Carry on!
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