wildmanyeah
Crew Member
Glad we cleared that up that its restricted to norway! can we stop mention norway and studies from their now?
Fish Farm trouble in BC.
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Glad we cleared that up that its restricted to norway! can we stop mention norway and studies from their now?
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
There is halibut in the Atlantic. By appearance they seem almost identical to pacific Hali. The same can be said for many species the occupy bothe the Atlantic and pacific. Why wouldn't the same thing be with a virus. It could have come over on a ship 200 years ago.
Never the less it is here and its been here since before salmon farms no matter how much effort is directed at blaming salmon farming for the introduction. That idea will never change any science about it and is giblets for those who chose to consume ideas that align with their opinions on the issue.
Never the less it is here and its been here since before salmon farms no matter how much effort is directed at blaming salmon farming for the introduction. That idea will never change any science about it and is giblets for those who chose to consume ideas that align with their opinions on the issue.
fogged in
Well-Known Member
On what do you base your statement "We know Cowichan Chinook can spend their whole life in SOG Winter feeders man!"
Were do you get the impression Cowichan River Chinook spend time near the USA Cook Fish Farms
and what makes you think the USA is any happier about Fish Farms then we are?
Washington State freezes new fish farm licenses amid Atlantic salmon ...
Aug 27, 2017
Washington state senator pushes fish-farm ban, urges same in B.C.
Dec 6, 2017
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
I
It's becoming obvious that BC prv studies are not yealding the doom and gloom that some would hope so it is convenient for the agent and others to highlight studies from other places in the world while we wait for additional studies that apply to the Bc scenario.
It's becoming obvious that BC prv studies are not yealding the doom and gloom that some would hope so it is convenient for the agent and others to highlight studies from other places in the world while we wait for additional studies that apply to the Bc scenario.
rockdog
Well-Known Member
Actually, I disagree. Since the latest escape, the studies that apply to BC have been pouring out from scientists, labs, and Universities. The public has never been more aware of the damage FF's do, and there is a lot of momentum building against FF's. Regardless of your opinions, denials and repetitive questions, the end is coming.
rockdog
Well-Known Member
You always ask how many fish are killed by FF's because you know that it is very difficult to say how many. How about looking at it from this perspective. If I go fishing for Chinook, say in Sooke... Lets say I catch 3 and I'm fishing by myself and I bonk all 3. Well, that's 1 too many.....
rockdog
Well-Known Member
You want numbers, that's how the numbers work. Its agreed that FF's kill wild fish, how many? Hard to say, but the fact that it is a sizeable number should make it illegal, therefore put on land. That's is 1 major issue removed, and then deal with the next....
This is apart of a solution to a very complicated problem.
This is apart of a solution to a very complicated problem.
Nice try agent. How do you suppose this virus was found in Alaska?
But the issue remains this. If salmon runs collapse in the presence of FF's but also show similar collapses not in the presence of FF's - we shouldn't infer it is the FF in one case but ocean temps in another. Several people on this thread talked about the great health of the Alaskan Fishery - because they have no FF's. Right? Actually, WRONG!
ALASKA PINK SALMON FISHERY FEDERAL DISASTER DECLARED
Gov. Bill Walker requested a declaration for the fishery in September. In his letter to Pritzker, Walker reported on the collapse of pink salmon in Prince William Sound, Kodiak, Chignik, lower Cook Inlet, and Southeast Alaska management areas.
So in the absence of FF's, other salmon runs are collapsing. In the exact same article it explains what they see as the big issue:
" The collapse has been confidently attributed to poor ocean survival, the salmon are simply starving at sea."
Simply put, the ocean temperatures changing are causing these collapses. We need to find ways to help fix or come up with strategies. Again, all of us should try to start with thinking about what are the biggest issues. Once you establish that, what are the things we can do, if any. If we shut down all the fish farms and we have no appreciable impact on the salmon returns, all we get to do is start another thread and blame someone else.
Here is what is happening in Alaska:
"To save Alaska’s salmon, we must understand what’s happening to them and fight to protect their habitats. Scientists are studying the status of Alaska’s freshwater systems and the distribution of young salmon year after year to better predict how climate and habitat impacts affect them. These scientists hope to identify stretches of rivers and streams that are cooler and places that are spring fed, as these will be important refuges in a warmer world. "
Shouldn't we be doing this as well?
ALASKA PINK SALMON FISHERY FEDERAL DISASTER DECLARED
Gov. Bill Walker requested a declaration for the fishery in September. In his letter to Pritzker, Walker reported on the collapse of pink salmon in Prince William Sound, Kodiak, Chignik, lower Cook Inlet, and Southeast Alaska management areas.
So in the absence of FF's, other salmon runs are collapsing. In the exact same article it explains what they see as the big issue:
" The collapse has been confidently attributed to poor ocean survival, the salmon are simply starving at sea."
Simply put, the ocean temperatures changing are causing these collapses. We need to find ways to help fix or come up with strategies. Again, all of us should try to start with thinking about what are the biggest issues. Once you establish that, what are the things we can do, if any. If we shut down all the fish farms and we have no appreciable impact on the salmon returns, all we get to do is start another thread and blame someone else.
Here is what is happening in Alaska:
"To save Alaska’s salmon, we must understand what’s happening to them and fight to protect their habitats. Scientists are studying the status of Alaska’s freshwater systems and the distribution of young salmon year after year to better predict how climate and habitat impacts affect them. These scientists hope to identify stretches of rivers and streams that are cooler and places that are spring fed, as these will be important refuges in a warmer world. "
Shouldn't we be doing this as well?
So why are they collapsing in Alaska? No FF's and even further away, but same issues.
GLG
Well-Known Member
Cowichan Chinook (CC) do spend their life in the SoG at least up until the last decade or so when they started showing up on the west coast. We still don't know why that changed or at least I have not read any explanation as to why that changed. Maybe someone has more information on that. As someone that fishes in an area that has more regulations to protect CC's than most I have taken an interest on that system. We all should as if I'm not mistaken that is why we have a difference between the minimum length of what we can keep here in the SoG and the west coast. So you see this affects a lot of anglers.
CC's have been studied and all the hatchery fish have a CWT so to test your theroy that they migrate past fish farms in Washington trawl surveys can be used. Here is a map of what has been found.
You can read some of the results here but the short answer is no CC's don't migrate over to the Cooke fish farm.
https://marinesurvivalproject.com/research_activity/list/juvenile-salmon-studies-ca/
Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
In one paragraph you have stated it is difficult to quantify. A moment later you state its a fact that ff kill many. Can you show some info that shows that other than papers similar to mortons last art piece that the same old statician is involved with that results in only might, maybe and may with no quantification of probability?
GLG
Well-Known Member
One year does not make a trend. That would be like saying because it was 14C in Calgary last week means global warming is proven. You should know that as a scientist. We knew this was coming because of the warm ocean temps and I think if you read some of those State of the Ocean reports they were in there. The problems we are having in the SoG can not be explained by just ocean temps up in GoA. Our long term trend in the SoG is the survival of smolts to adult. That is where we need to find the answers and exactly where we are looking.
WOW DAVE! I am truly surprised you can't figure that one out. You realize that thing on the back of the fish is called a tail??
GLG
Well-Known Member
The sign of a weak argument is to attack the messenger not the message.
fogged in
Well-Known Member
You are SO right GLG...this is the Alaska report from this year...
"Forrest Bowers, Deputy Director of the Division of Commercial Fisheries characterized the 2017 Alaska salmon season as a banner year for the industry and State of Alaska. "Tremendous harvests occurred across Alaska – from Kotzebue to Southeast, highlighted by an all-time record statewide chum salmon harvest. In addition, 2017 is the third year in a row statewide sockeye salmon harvest exceeded 50 million fish. Record wild salmon harvests like these are a testament to Alaska's sound, science-based management, the professionalism of ADF&G's staff, and thoughtful stakeholder engagement."
AND it goes on to say
In terms of pounds of fish, the all species wild salmon harvest of 1,041.0 million pounds ranks third in from1975-2017and is only the third time harvest has exceed 1 billion pounds. In terms of exvessel value, the all species harvest of $678.8 million ranks third from 1975-2017. This year's chum salmon harvest of 25.2 million fish is thelargest harvest ever. Along with record breaking numbers, this year's chum salmon exvessel value, of $128.3 million ranks second best from 1975-2017. This year's pink salmon harvest ranks third in terms of exvessel value and fourth in terms of poundage.
Bristol Bay enjoyed another great sockeye salmon season with 37.7 million sockeye salmon valued at $209.9 million. Not to be outdone by Bristol Bay, other fisheries experienced record salmon harvest in 2017, notably in Norton Sound where a strong coho salmon return provided a new record harvest of 191,000 coho salmon, in Chignik where the pink salmon harvest of just over 7 million wild pink salmon is a new record, and in the Alaska Peninsula where the harvest of nearly 22 million wild pink salmon is a new record.
Please note that these are preliminary harvest and value estimates that will change as fish tickets are processed and finalized. Dollar values provided by ADF&G are based on estimated ex-vessel prices and do not include post-season bonuses or price adjustments. The final value of the 2017 salmon fishery will be determined in 2018 after seafood processors, buyers, and direct marketers report the total value paid to fishermen in 2017.
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Birdsnest
Well-Known Member
Or it is just impossible to refute my post thus the victim response. I think it's pretty clear that all of Morton and routlage science results in might, may and maybe with a compleat lack of any quantification whatsoever. This is no attack. This is just an observation of their repeated scientific results. my observation may be critical but it is still part of the scientific process.
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