New forum rules

I will add in that I'm all for the enforcement of the rules. I don't comment on any of the heated threads but I read them. I don't think I am the only member or non-member that skips through the mud throwing in hopes of reading something of value. I am interested in every point of view so that I can have my own informed opinion of the topic.

MS
 
I will add in that I'm all for the enforcement of the rules. I don't comment on any of the heated threads but I read them. I don't think I am the only member or non-member that skips through the mud throwing in hopes of reading something of value. I am interested in every point of view so that I can have my own informed opinion of the topic.

MS


yes.. this
 
I will add in that I'm all for the enforcement of the rules. I don't comment on any of the heated threads but I read them. I don't think I am the only member or non-member that skips through the mud throwing in hopes of reading something of value. I am interested in every point of view so that I can have my own informed opinion of the topic.

MS

I would agree with this. It seems like we have too much chaff and not enough wheat. I also would like to see a little more critical thinking and analysis and longer posts that require a little effort. When it comes to the Small P politics hot potato issues there are too many one liner comments and sparing matches of minimal value. Sometimes I think they are done on purpose to dilute certain debates that people are afraid of or have a vested interest in the outcome. In short if you frustrate people enough, the debate goes away.

Personally I am also not all that big on the overuse of picture/video only posts substituting for meaningful dialogue in hot potato discussions. That is not to say that there is not a place for some comic relief now and then. God knows we need it, with all the bad news and disproportionate hits our sector has endured in recent years especially with Halibut and Fraser Chinook.

We should not be afraid of debate even with the internally politically sensitive hot potato issue within our community. Quite frankly in any debate if you resort to the one liner zingers or personalize the discussion, you have probably already lost or at best overly polarized the discussion. Not a good thing for discussion between anglers who all have our own vested interests; but at the end of the day need to work together against external threats to our fish and fishery. For my part I will try to self monitor a little more and raise my level of servility.

However, if the discussion is with those external parities that are here to do damage control such as fish farm operators or quota owners, I don’t have a problem with being a little less diplomatic (especially with those who like to disguise themselves as anglers) but will try to be civil. Better to destroy their arguments and point out their self serving nature. They are relentless though aren’t they? That is to be expected as they are paid to be here (Lobbyist/PR hacks) or otherwise make money off it (employees, quota owner’s etc), so of course they are motivated.

One final thing; to those who have fled the battle field and decided not to post because of the heated Internal debate on Halibut. I would say take some time, cool down and remember your opinions and viewpoints are valuable. If you take your ball and go home, the game still continues, it just becomes one sided and the opinion of those that show up become more influential. Not much different than getting frustrated and deciding not to vote.
 
One final thing; to those who have fled the battle field and decided not to post because of the heated Internal debate on Halibut. I would say take some time, cool down and remember your opinions and viewpoints are valuable. If you take your ball and go home, the game still continues, it just becomes one sided and the opinion of those that show up become more influential. Not much different than getting frustrated and deciding not to vote.

The good ones never left the court and the ball (that they never once called theirs) is still in play IMHO:cool:. This forum has very little influence on fish politics.

I hope with the new enforcing around here some of the good members will start posting up again:).

Cheers,
John
 
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However, if the discussion is with those external parities that are here to do damage control such as fish farm operators or quota owners, I don’t have a problem with being a little less diplomatic (especially with those who like to disguise themselves as anglers) but will try to be civil. Better to destroy their arguments and point out their self serving nature. They are relentless though aren’t they? That is to be expected as they are paid to be here (Lobbyist/PR hacks) or otherwise make money off it (employees, quota owner’s etc), so of course they are motivated.

This level of reasoning isn't going to raise the quality of this forum at all. IMO This is private club one side of the fence conspiracy theorist thinking.

Given the high level of participation in politics this forum sees I believe that it is in the sport fishing sectors best interest for this forum to be moderated in a manor that represents the sector as responsible and rational group. To often it seems like a private boys club which is not suitable for the general fishing public at all. Imagine what it looks like from an outsiders perspective. Striking the ideal balance between the two is very challenging I understand. As a new contributor here some times I find it hard to tell which it is, private club or public forum. Ultimately it is private I know but its a very public format which should be moderated in a way that represents the sport fishing community as a whole. Some of the stuff that goes on here just makes me shake my head. It is what it is I guess. Its still the best salt chuck site in bc.

But if it is a private club now is probably a good time to say so.
 
They good ones never left the court and the ball is still in play IMHO:cool:. This forum has very little influence on fish politics.

I hope with the new enforcing around here some of the good members will start posting up again:).

Cheers,
John

it would be good to have them back.

As far as fishery politics, I think this forum may be a little more influential than you think. I know DFO reads it and some are better at searching on it than I am. Reporters and columnists read it and some like Mr Hume once commented to that effect. Then there is the politicians; don’t think for a moment they don’t keep track of hot button political issues like Halibut Allocation on forums like this.
Many anglers have been to protests and meetings and other angler activities that they would never even have know about had they not learned about them through this forum. Would the Halibut Coalition that got us the additional 3% been as effective without the greater visibility and awareness this forum gave it?
I know that a number of those that have had pivotal roles in the new SVIAC first learned of and got to know each other through this forum and I suspect SVIAC is going to have a fair bit of political influence on fishery politics in the future.
 
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Its still the best salt chuck site in bc.

I agree, and that is why I'll keep coming back. I have faith in most of the members here. I'll get the information I ask for, and I enjoy participating in the conversations. The other thing I want to say is the last time there was an issue on this board, quite a few members said they were going to quit and come over to the site I moderate on, BCFR. Many did in fact join. They were outraged over something. It easy to get frustrated when you are passionate about fishing. And as much as I, Rick, the owner of BCFR, and the other mods wanted to bolster membership from SFBC, those on the exodus never really did stick around. They came back to SFBC, for the same reasons I do. There is something special about the Salt, be it ECVI or WCVI or QCI or Vancouver. This site has a unique flavour, albeit sometimes not so nice or politically correct. Most felt at home here. But times ave changed. I think the new rules will continue to allow 'contributors' to do just that, but also help deal with those that simply don't add anything. I am pretty sure good forum rules are in place to encourage people to think before they post, force them to really think about what they are trying to say.
 
This level of reasoning isn't going to raise the quality of this forum at all. IMO This is private club one side of the fence conspiracy theorist thinking.

Given the high level of participation in politics this forum sees I believe that it is in the sport fishing sectors best interest for this forum to be moderated in a manor that represents the sector as responsible and rational group. To often it seems like a private boys club which is not suitable for the general fishing public at all. Imagine what it looks like from an outsiders perspective. Striking the ideal balance between the two is very challenging I understand. As a new contributor here some times I find it hard to tell which it is, private club or public forum. Ultimately it is private I know but its a very public format which should be moderated in a way that represents the sport fishing community as a whole. Some of the stuff that goes on here just makes me shake my head. It is what it is I guess. Its still the best salt chuck site in bc.

But if it is a private club now is probably a good time to say so.

You are mistaken if you think that an increased civility is going to allow salmon open pen feedlot industry employees such as your self an unchallenged free ride in your efforts to protect your industry at the expense of our wild fish on a forum deicated to the advancment and support of sportfishing and our Pacific fish.

To your credit though you don't hide who you work for and where you allegiances lie on this critical issue and you do some tuna fishing so that gives you a little sport credibility which makes you a better choice (for the fish farm corps) than some of the other industry types that have turned up here in the past.

I would also point out that on Websites run by industries to promote their interests, that if they allow any questions or comments (and many don’t), they never allow unvetted questions or comments to be posted or an open debate. If they allow questions or comments at all, they select the ones they like and spin the answer. For them it is all about controlling the message and molding public opinion while giving the illusion of openness and responding to public concerns.

How great it must be for industry to be able to send their PR types to sites like this (where they know there is a lot of opposition) to spin to their hearts content. It’s called damage control and if they feel any blow back, talk about whether it is a public forum or a private club and conspiracy theorist thinking. Not exactly a two way street is it.

Hope that was civil enough.

If you want to continue I suggest we move it over to the fishery politics section where it belongs.
 
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I'll gladly get banned from here before playing nice with fish farm supporters, they are our enemy and so is DFO.
 
Again I see that you can not help yourself. This thread is about forum rules and I am using the salmon farming issue as an example but you insist on behaving like a moderator on this one. If you are a moderator than say so if not then speak for yourself. I see that you take every possible moment to discredit me or belittle me:
I do some tuna fishing
???? Thats all you think I do? This supports your arguments against salmon farms, how much I fish? Ya ok.
I know some of the other pro farm bouys that post here occasionally and to the forums discredit how they get treated here is shameful. While it supports your views in your style it does nothing for the sport fishing community to have the style of bashing that has gone on in the past on that topic. Yet the moderators it seem seem to have had a double standard and allowed such bashing to prevail. To their credit they did step in once but it was far beyond myself being mud slung to bits.
As i see it this is a problem this forum suffers from is its selective moderation. Its fine if its private but it isn't and if it is say it is so.
I would also point out that on Websites run by industries to promote their interests, that if they allow any questions or comments (and many don’t), they never allow unedited questions or comments to be posted or an open debate.

SALMON FARM SCIENCE is unedited BUT if you are going to use the tone that you use here then again there will not be much conversation. It just doesn't work.

How great it must be for industry to be able to send their PR types to sites like this (where they know there is a lot of opposition) to spin to their hearts content. It’s called damage control and if they feel any blow back, talk about whether it is a public forum or a private club and conspiracy theorist thinking. Not exactly a two way street is it.

Again, if this is one of your primary arguments against salmon farms then so be it but, allow me to address the issue of the rules of the site. Does this comply? Are the moderators going to allow this to continue? I and others were just called shills again. Where will the moderator draw the line or should the question be how do the moderators want the site to represent the sport fishing community to the public.


Their call.
 
I'll gladly get banned from here before playing nice with fish farm supporters, they are our enemy and so is DFO.

And you are free to debate that point until it has been flogged to death so long as there are no personal attacks, insults or profanity. It's pretty simple what we want here.. No insults, personal attacks, profanity or un-substantiated defamation of a particular business or individual. I don't think that encompasses the entire aquaculture industry. That is the end of aquaculture in this thread, feel free to light it up in the Conservation/Politics forum.
 
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I should also add that no one has ever been banned for starting a civil thread that was removed for whatever reason. If it's reasonable but disaapears because we feel it's just not right for the site, that does not mean anything other then we didn't like it. This is our sandbox and we will moderate it as we see fit.

No one can claim that they were banned for any once such instance unless in a few rare cases it was a first couple of posts directly attacking the sport fishing sector which is contradictory to what this site is all about. The heads that have rolled recently have a long track record of thread derailments, hot headed insults, or plain rude behavior . I can say that there are no participants in this current thread who have ever appeared close to the radar on this. If no one has ever heard from us regarding their posts, then the new rules are of no concern to them and they can continue to use the site as they have been for years.

Those that respond to what they don't like with rude insults or personal attacks, or threats will join the trail of those in our past who just didn't "get it".

I can't say enough that this is not directed to anyone who is discussing this current thread. And my personal contact information is splattered all over the place for anyone who wants either more clarification, or to debate the finer points of our sandbox..
 
Finally got through the 8 pages of this thread. All I have to say is keep up the good work mods! Like most volunteers you have a thankless job that brings a lot of good to a lot of people. Looking forward to much more civil debate and fishing talk and much less poo-slinging and name calling.
 
Big thanks to rockfish for providing an example of why this forum has gone downhill. Bigger thanks to the mods for taking on a damned if you do, damned if you don't job.
 
[M0-zQiW7erU] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=M0-zQiW7erU#t=41s
 
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