New Halibut Regulations Update

[Hoochiebob]

If charter guides are to be moved to the commercial quota, then their methods of catch should be the same as the commercial sector. Those who pay or "buy" their quota do so with nets and set lines. Does that seem an even match when guides go out with four hooks in the water, with only 4-6 hours per trip to catch a fish?
This new regulation will cripple the lodges and the charters that support multiple day trips.
83 cm=32.7 in =15 lbs live weight. Obviously not trying to protect the females. Some sad, pathetic way for DFO to comfort the commies that we will not exceed our TAC this year.

 

[Islandgirl]

After reading Islandgirl's inflated guestimate of how many fish she thinks guides gift annualy I can obviously see that she really has a hate for guides too! Why is it that causes some of these people to hate so much??? Lorne, I know your out there, you called it perfectly in your pm to me the other night. Would you bring it out or should I?

Fishmyster,
I have no hate for guides, only the highest respect. It is a very tough job and hard industry to be in.
I have guides as friends, some from this forum.
While some agree with me ..some disagree and that is freedom of speech. At the end of the day we can all enjoy a beer at the campsite and ALL share a Passion for fishing.
There will be a day when I get older and cannot physically do everything that is involved in owning and getting my own boat out on the water. At that time I am hopefull there will still be guides in the game ( that DFO has not regulated them out of business) that can take me out to catch some fish and put a smile on my face.

 

[Bullhead]

Oh!!! So islandgirl its ok to put out wildly exaggerated numbers out there then pin them on a specific group and say you have the highest respect for them! I think not! You spew lies and deceit! Hopefully someday you will account for them! Some freedom of speech! BLAH!

 

[GLG]

Considering that the total quota for the west coast of Canada is just over 7 million pounds, that works out to around one quarter to one third of a pound of halibut per canadian citizen. I guess that's why it's so expensive? Take into account that a lot of the clients that partake in this fishery aren't even Canadian,they just fly in & fly out so a good portion of 'our' fish are going to people that aren't even citizens.

Perhaps I you new what the facts were you might have a different opinion of the commercial halibut fishery.
You see most of the Canadian halibut TAC does not go to any Canadian. It gets frozen and shipped out side of Canada to a Safeway or fancy restaurant down south. You for one, that has been affirmed a right to go fishing, should see that we as recreational fishermen would like that same right affirmed as well. It is currently in our laws but DFO and the commercial industry have tried to take that away with a pile of paperwork, some fancy talking and politician speak for economic good of the country. Just a load of crap to cover up greed on the part of some men.

so a good portion of 'our' fish are going to people that aren't even citizens.

You are so right about that........ as you can see in the pie chart below.
GLG

 

[first nations dude]

Perhaps I you new what the facts were you might have a different opinion of the commercial halibut fishery.
You see most of the Canadian halibut TAC does not go to any Canadian. It gets frozen and shipped out side of Canada to a Safeway or fancy restaurant down south. You for one, that has been affirmed a right to go fishing, should see that we as recreational fishermen would like that same right affirmed as well. It is currently in our laws but DFO and the commercial industry have tried to take that away with a pile of paperwork, some fancy talking and politician speak for economic good of the country. Just a load of crap to cover up greed on the part of some men.

You are so right about that........ as you can see in the pie chart below.
GLG

The pie chart is only partially correct, i would say that a large portion of the recreational pie doesn't end up in Canada as well,all you have to do is cruise the parking lots in Tofino & Ukee & you'd see a large # of the trucks parked are from Washington,Oregon & other areas from down south.I've seen this happening for nearly 50 years.It wasn't to long ago when Americans use to park down in Poet Nook & be canning sockeye all summer long.
Lets face a grim reality, people like to ralleye under that flag that it's Canada's fish but i would hazard a guess that only a few hundred thousand actually get to eat Canada's fish. I would also guess how much fish gets consumed rather than sitting in someones freezer getting burnt & ending up as crab bait,or how many fishers(both sport & commercial) that don't even like or eat fish, they just like catching it. I saw an article here by DC reid saying he catches over 500 fish annually! How many of these fish are catch & release? DFO says mortality rates are as high as 90% on revived salmon,i can only imagine how many of those catch & release fish where eaten by seals?

 

[Little Hawk]

Sure, some catch more than they eat, so we share it, same as on the Reservation.
Not sure I'd agree with you on the 'freezer burn-ending up as crap' theory. Personally, I feel terrible if I kill something and waste ANY of it.

Thanks for sharing your opinion and welcome to the Forum!

 

[Doug]

The new Halibut regulations are not going to help our business for sure. I know for sure that not as many recreational caught fish are going to the USA as before from my boat.

I sell fishing licences and have a client tracking system. My past records showed that from Jan to June 70%+ (7/10 people) of our business were Americans, but after 2007 and up until today the average has drop to 10% so now we are only taking out 1 American in 10 people. Luckily the loss in American clients was made up by locals and the prairies people. For the July to Oct season 90%+ of our business has always been locals and Albertans. The other 10% is from all over the world.

I contacted my American clients in 2008/2009 and the common response was, Sorry the economy is so bad and my investments have crashed. Most of them are still dealing with the same issues. Most of my past American clients were professionals and are still working but with their retirement funds drying up or disappeared in the crash and now they are now putting holiday funds more into savings (retirement) than traveling to Canada who's dollar is on par. Also back prior to 2007 the American dollar went a long way buying services in Canada which attracted allot more people north.

Maybe this is not the same story for the lodges but in the Victoria area I've noticed more Canadians experiencing Canada than traveling south during the summer months. Specially people from Alberta during Aug.

 

[first nations dude]

If charter guides are to be moved to the commercial quota, then their methods of catch should be the same as the commercial sector. Those who pay or "buy" their quota do so with nets and set lines. Does that seem an even match when guides go out with four hooks in the water, with only 4-6 hours per trip to catch a fish?
This new regulation will cripple the lodges and the charters that support multiple day trips.
83 cm=32.7 in =15 lbs live weight. Obviously not trying to protect the females. Some sad, pathetic way for DFO to comfort the commies that we will not exceed our TAC this year.

Careful what you wish for HB, lets start small & say you want to fish 10,000lbs of quota.First your gonna need an L tab with a minimum 600lbs quota,they trade for $1800/foot & $70/lb.Thats roughly $120,000 just to get your foot in the door for a license that will fit in a 45' boat. Now your going to need a way to catch these fish, a small drum that'll hold 15 skates will cost you $20,000.
Lets say your going to run 3 strings with 5 skates per string & your gonna want 5 extra skates just in case you lose some gear.Each skate of groundline is 1800' & costs $300/skate,so 20 skates will cost you $6000. Hooks? save a little money & make your own for $4/hook,your gonna want to make 4000 @ 200 hooks / skate .So that'll cost another $16,000.
Now a descent used boat will cost you about $200,000 & we're ready to start fishing right? Well now we have to install a couple cameras with gps to make sure we're not fishing in a closed area.Camera & computer with gps,$9,000.Annual monitoring fee $3,000.So now you go out & catch some fish & deliver it,theres dockside monitoring which costs $100/hr,usually one hour is good if the video they view matches up with your log book. Oh yeah annual log book,$300/yr.Lets see am i forgetting anything? Oops i forgot the other 9,400lbs of quota that we need to purchase.That's another $658,000.
Grand total$1,032,300. How much would you expect to get paid for your catch?$6-7/lb, so $70,000/yr. Sounds good doesn't it,but wait we forgot to deduct deckhand fees,2 guys @15%,so now your down to $59,500.Add a mortgage payment of $35,000/yr over 30 years.As i said before the quota system was introduced back in the late 80's, These original quota holders got there quota for 'free' free?back then you needed a 'A' license to fish halibut,cost back in the 80's was about $100,000, sounds pretty 'free' to me.Then you had to qualify for this halibut quota, they took your best 3 years of landing & averaged it out & that's how your quota was set.DFO never told anyone that they were going to do this so that fishers wouldn't go out & try to boost there best 3 years to make it fair for all those that fished for halibut.
So to be able to use 'commercial' gear with a relatively small quota it's gonna cost you over a million dollars,this doesn't include grub & fuel,so do you still wanna fish with more hooks?

 

[IronNoggin]

... So to be able to use 'commercial' gear with a relatively small quota it's gonna cost you over a million dollars,this doesn't include grub & fuel,so do you still wanna fish with more hooks?

I will admit that I personally created a fair amount of controversy with a few of my original posts on the halibut matter. And so it was I decided to stay away from them in the hope of not furthering even more of the same. However at this juncture, methinks a point has to be made...

Always kind of wonder when a new member joins up, and immediately jumps firmly into one side of an ongoing controversy. Guess that's simply due to my occasionally Suspicious Mind...
Given your rather detailed familiarity with commercail halibut fishing, I guess I'm not all that surprised that you appear to be here to further promote that sector's ongoing Agenda of Dissent.
So, which is it. Fish Broker, Skipper, Deckie, or simply a $hit-Disturber?

While Lorne and I have had a few obvious differences on this issue, methinks here he hit the nail right on the proverbial head:

Frick man, if we spent as much time working on a solution to the allocation instead of proving our points to each other we'd have a 50/50 split in allocation by now.

True that. Also perhaps time to peel back the blinders as to the insidious comments of dissent from a handful of new "members" methinks.

What is done is DONE for this season. All the grumbling and whining in the world will not change that at this point. It is time to get over the perceived injustices, focus on the underlying reason for why they even exist in the first place (allocation in case you somehow missed that) and get on with pulling ourselves together into the impressive United Front we displayed over the past year. Continuing down the road of driving wedges amongst our own plays very much into the hands of those who stand apposed to our ambitions, and certainly works directly against us in that regard.

Look Folks, we got what we got. No it isn't all that Ducky, but it IS a toe-hold, a step in the right direction. Entertaining the type of drivel being spewed by a handful of infiltrators here in no way advances upon the progress made to date. In fact, as noted, it works directly against that.

I suggest we bury the axe, and get on with the task at hand of securing the Fair and Equitable Access we all need and desire. It is more than obvious at this point what we are capable of when United. From the "discussions" in many of these threads, it is also just as apparent how easy it is for some to drive wedges ever deeper. So, I guess you simply have to ask this of yourself: Do you prefer to stand Together for the cause and betterment of All? Or do you actually want to see the United Stand crumble and the potential of our future success's simply fall by the wayside?

Cheers,
Nog

 

[Clipper]

Amen to that, Nog! Time to move on.

 

[Islandgirl]

Amen to that, Nog! Time to move on.

Agreed x 10000

 

[onefish]

I will admit that I personally created a fair amount of controversy with a few of my original posts on the halibut matter. And so it was I decided to stay away from them in the hope of not furthering even more of the same. However at this juncture, methinks a point has to be made...

Always kind of wonder when a new member joins up, and immediately jumps firmly into one side of an ongoing controversy. Guess that's simply due to my occasionally Suspicious Mind...
Given your rather detailed familiarity with commercail halibut fishing, I guess I'm not all that surprised that you appear to be here to further promote that sector's ongoing Agenda of Dissent.
So, which is it. Fish Broker, Skipper, Deckie, or simply a $hit-Disturber?

While Lorne and I have had a few obvious differences on this issue, methinks here he hit the nail right on the proverbial head:



True that. Also perhaps time to peel back the blinders as to the insidious comments of dissent from a handful of new "members" methinks.

What is done is DONE for this season. All the grumbling and whining in the world will not change that at this point. It is time to get over the perceived injustices, focus on the underlying reason for why they even exist in the first place (allocation in case you somehow missed that) and get on with pulling ourselves together into the impressive United Front we displayed over the past year. Continuing down the road of driving wedges amongst our own plays very much into the hands of those who stand apposed to our ambitions, and certainly works directly against us in that regard.

Look Folks, we got what we got. No it isn't all that Ducky, but it IS a toe-hold, a step in the right direction. Entertaining the type of drivel being spewed by a handful of infiltrators here in no way advances upon the progress made to date. In fact, as noted, it works directly against that.

I suggest we bury the axe, and get on with the task at hand of securing the Fair and Equitable Access we all need and desire. It is more than obvious at this point what we are capable of when United. From the "discussions" in many of these threads, it is also just as apparent how easy it is for some to drive wedges ever deeper. So, I guess you simply have to ask this of yourself: Do you prefer to stand Together for the cause and betterment of All? Or do you actually want to see the United Stand crumble and the potential of our future success's simply fall by the wayside?

Cheers,
Nog

Salmon caught by you on the Commercial troller = good salmon caught
Salmon caught by you while guiding = good salmon caught
Salmon caught by "bag" fisherman = bad salmon caught
Halibut caught by you while guiding = good halibut caught
Halibut caught by longline = bad halibut caught
Am I missing something??

 

[Fishmyster]

Halibut caught by longline = bad halibut caught
Does Brent know you feel this way?

 

[GLG]

The pie chart is only partially correct, i would say that a large portion of the recreational pie doesn't end up in Canada as well,all you have to do is cruise the parking lots in Tofino & Ukee & you'd see a large # of the trucks parked are from Washington,Oregon & other areas from down south.I've seen this happening for nearly 50 years.It wasn't to long ago when Americans use to park down in Poet Nook & be canning sockeye all summer long.
Lets face a grim reality, people like to ralleye under that flag that it's Canada's fish but i would hazard a guess that only a few hundred thousand actually get to eat Canada's fish. I would also guess how much fish gets consumed rather than sitting in someones freezer getting burnt & ending up as crab bait,or how many fishers(both sport & commercial) that don't even like or eat fish, they just like catching it. I saw an article here by DC reid saying he catches over 500 fish annually! How many of these fish are catch & release? DFO says mortality rates are as high as 90% on revived salmon,i can only imagine how many of those catch & release fish where eaten by seals?

Lot's of guesses to argue my facts.... That wont due. Perhaps you should come up some facts then your reply would have some weight.. Another thing since when were we talking about salmon? This is all about halibut. If you could supply us with some facts about halibut I am all ears.

 

[IronNoggin]

Halibut caught by longline = bad halibut caught
Does Brent know you feel this way?

LOL! Brent and I have had the discussion many times. He is WELL aware I have NO issues with the Working Fishermen! They are getting as screwed over or even more so than we are by the current system.

Said my piece. Nothing further to add...

Cheers,
Nog

 

[Fishmyster]

First nation dude. I don't mean any disrespect here but the charter industry is only about 35 years old on this coast and was pioneered by Oak Bay marine group. The bulk of the small charter vessels in Ukee and Tofino have been around for under thirty years.
As I grew up there have been tough choices to make with which industry has the most promising future. My concidered options were Logging, comercial fishing or charter fishing. I ended up chosing the charter industry because I felt the charter industry gave the most economic promise for me and the economy with the least harm or draw from the environment. If back then there was no charter industry I would probably be a fellow comercial fisherman just like you but white. Many other friends had chosen the others and some were sucessfull some werent and some are dead now. The way I see it is we, I mean sporties and comercials all need fish to survive and contribute to the countries economy. It is sport fishing that gives the most economic benefits to Canada so it would be in the best interest of the Canadian govt to give whaterer piece of the pie necessary to keep the charter cash cow functional. I do hope we as fellow fishermen can all learn apreciate each others interests . I want to wish a good season to all fishermen weither you sport, comercial or charter. Hopefully there is an outcome in this debate that let's us all prosper and enjoy fishing for the future.

The pie chart is only partially correct, i would say that a large portion of the recreational pie doesn't end up in Canada as well,all you have to do is cruise the parking lots in Tofino & Ukee & you'd see a large # of the trucks parked are from Washington,Oregon & other areas from down south.I've seen this happening for nearly 50 years.It wasn't to long ago when Americans use to park down in Poet Nook & be canning sockeye all summer long.
Lets face a grim reality, people like to ralleye under that flag that it's Canada's fish but i would hazard a guess that only a few hundred thousand actually get to eat Canada's fish. I would also guess how much fish gets consumed rather than sitting in someones freezer getting burnt & ending up as crab bait,or how many fishers(both sport & commercial) that don't even like or eat fish, they just like catching it. I saw an article here by DC reid saying he catches over 500 fish annually! How many of these fish are catch & release? DFO says mortality rates are as high as 90% on revived salmon,i can only imagine how many of those catch & release fish where eaten by seals?

 

[Fishmyster]

Oops sorry Mat. I thought that was your post. My mistake.

LOL! Brent and I have had the discussion many times. He is WELL aware I have NO issues with the Working Fishermen! They are getting as screwed over or even more so than we are by the current system.

Said my piece. Nothing further to add...

Cheers,
Nog

 

[first nations dude]

First nation dude. I don't mean any disrespect here but the charter industry is only about 35 years old on this coast and was pioneered by Oak Bay marine group. The bulk of the small charter vessels in Ukee and Tofino have been around for under thirty years.
As I grew up there have been tough choices to make with which industry has the most promising future. My concidered options were Logging, comercial fishing or charter fishing. I ended up chosing the charter industry because I felt the charter industry gave the most economic promise for me and the economy with the least harm or draw from the environment. If back then there was no charter industry I would probably be a fellow comercial fisherman just like you but white. Many other friends had chosen the others and some were sucessfull some werent and some are dead now. The way I see it is we, I mean sporties and comercials all need fish to survive and contribute to the countries economy. It is sport fishing that gives the most economic benefits to Canada so it would be in the best interest of the Canadian govt to give whaterer piece of the pie necessary to keep the charter cash cow functional. I do hope we as fellow fishermen can all learn apreciate each others interests . I want to wish a good season to all fishermen weither you sport, comercial or charter. Hopefully there is an outcome in this debate that let's us all prosper and enjoy fishing for the future.

This has been the argument that pound for pound that sport puts more into the economy than Commercial,therefore i don't see why the quazi-sport commercial sector can't lease or buy quota? If you lease quota , you are able to write the cost of your lease off against your profits.If you buy quota ,you can write off your interest on your loan used to purchase quota. This would seem reasonable considering that there is that argument out there that sport caught /charter halibut brings in more money than commercial caught fish? I admire fishers that go out & take there kids out fishing,this isn't my beef, my beef is the very group that you mentioned OBMG making huge profits from a resource that they put nothing back into or have any real stake in. I hear it quite often,charter fishers claiming to make 6 figure incomes from the halibut fishery.Considering that there is the claim out there that sport caught fish is more valuable than commercial caught fish,i have no reason not to believe these bold statements.
As a charter operator are you not already writing off your expenses? If your writing off your expences & making a living off a resource that supposedly belongs to all canadians, don't you think that you should be playing by the same rules as others that make there living from a common resource?
If you lease or own quota you are a stake holder in this resource,your season is extended from mar. til nov. instead of being tied up to the dock when you've used up all of the sport quota.

 

[Charlie]

I admire fishers that go out & take there kids out fishing,this isn't my beef, my beef is the very group that you mentioned OBMG making huge profits from a resource that they put nothing back into or have any real stake in.

You guys know, I am okay with "new members" coming on this site and asking questions and voicing their concerns; however, sometimes I have to ask... Do you really know WTF you are talking about? You might want to separate some fact and fiction and keep your bias opinions to yourself? And then may I ask, when was the last time YOU (or anyone you know) donated $11 MILLION, and yes I did say $11 MILLION dollars?

Just some wondering minds, wondering and wanting to know!

"The Bob Wright Centre: Oak Bay Marine Group’s $11 million donation to the University of Victoria"
http://www.obmg.com/about/media/media-releases/bob-wright-centre/

 

[Fishmyster]

First Nation Dude,
Just because a charter outfit can write off quota lease doesn't mean it is affordable. It still comes directly of of the marginable profit. Lease fee rates are set according to food sale values and not practable sport fishing value. If I leased quota I would have to fish wherever I would not catch any fish. Two fifty pounders would consume more profit than there is in one day. As you have been informed many times now the charter industry is dominately taking Canadian guests fishing now. Do you think it fair that a charter company should have to pay lease fees to offer a service that helps Canadians access sport portion of tac? Do you feel that I as a guide I should be paying royalties to a slipper skipper for the rest of time because of the large portion tac was gifted to them in the past?
Who are all the charter operators that are making 6 figures a year? I don't know many. How about all the comercial quota holders that make 6 figures and don't lift a finger??? Your beef with OBMG is also unjust. They support Ucluelet and the local economy by filling restraunts, accomodations, employing many. Please explain how you think halibut quota holders are contributing more to the local economy? Also explain why you think it fair for slipper skippers to be paid royalties for the rest of time by the sport charter fishing sector?