Your thoughts on transplanted Chinook, and Coho to the East, and Great Lakes?

Discussion in 'Saltwater Fishing Forum' started by FishBC.org, Oct 8, 2011.

  1. FishBC.org

    FishBC.org Active Member

    Curious what everyone's thoughts are on the fact that you can pull a "Tyee" now out of the great lakes, along with 30 Lb Coho?
    This has to be affecting tourism here on the west coast, and guides all along, as now people can simply dip lines in huge waterways that traditionally do not carry these fish. I know someone running a guiding business on the northern part of the states which is bordering one of the lakes, and he's making a mint off of our fish chartering for these things. Something about that just seems very wrong completely.

    We don't want Atlantics here, yet they're stocking with ours, and even running successful spawning programs.
     
  2. GLG

    GLG Well-Known Member

    Springs and Coho have had U.S. Great Lakes programs for 100 years.
    Check out this link on Coho
    http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?speciesID=908
    This link to Springs
    http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/FactSheet.aspx?SpeciesID=920

    They also tried chum, soc, and pink
    There is a movement on to stop stocking Pacific salmon and go with Atlantic salmon stocking by Ontario.
    The greens think it's a great idea but the fishermen don't think so.
    Our friends to the south have great programs but they are having problems too.
    Not sure what lake but another evasive species has wiped out the salmon food supply.
    GLG
     
  3. FishBC.org

    FishBC.org Active Member

    Yeah I'm aware they've tried to run a successful program for about 120 years now, but until recently they were having trouble getting anything to spawn so they had to keep reintroducing, but now they're getting successful spawns with new techniques. Will be interesting to see what that future holds.
     
  4. bub

    bub Member

    WTF!!!!!!????? Ontario has been doing this for DECADES!!!!! It has no effect on westcoast tourism. Imo. Brian are you sayin you just heard about this!!!!!???? GLG is right, there is lots of studies going on regarding bringing atlantics back..... It's my understanding that the two can't coexist..... I was talking to a lady doing her thesis on this subject on a river back east one day and she had mature atlantics tagged following them around...... she said and I witnessed that the big mature chinooks would chase them around the pool and stress the atlantics big time....
     
  5. chris73

    chris73 Well-Known Member

    It's actually not quite 100 years but in the 50's and 60's they have introduced the Pacifics in the Great Lakes - first from eastern to then western - to get a handle on the expoding alewife populations (similar to herrings) which took over the Great Lakes due to very depressed lake trout and other native predator species and the opened paths through the ship locks. As far as I know they have tried Atlantics first and found they didn't take very well (Erie) and then someone had the crazy idea to try Pacifics and they excelled. It was a win win - one of very few examples where humans implantations of alien species had very little negative effects but many positive. The alewifes did indeed get under control, the commercial and rec fishery had new very exciting targets (Chinooks and Cohos) and due to the latter the lake trout pops could rebound. Steelheads were successfully introduced there too and I venture to say that one day we might have to go back east to bring back steelhead genes to the westcoast after we extirpated them here. There are numerous tributaries of the Great Lakes that host spawning Pacifics now. I witnessed the Pink Salmon run many years ago in Sault St Marie, ON and while I found them a little smaller than here on the westcoast (2-5 lbs) they were very very plentyful. I am not aware of significant Sockeye or Chum pops in the east but the other 3 + steelheads are common and supported by hatcheries.
     
  6. FishBC.org

    FishBC.org Active Member

    Bub, no I had heard about this all before but only bits and pieces, but my friend was talking to me about it recently and he was showing me some of the photos of the trophies he took this year, and I was a bit stunned at how well Pacific Salmon are actually doing in their waters. What I meant by how it may affect tourism over here, is that without the fish having been planted there, I would imagine the tourism market for west coast salmon fishing would be much bigger.
    At least the Chinooks rarely top 30, but some of the coho are monsters. They even seem to get some hybrids in the mix.
     
  7. Dogbreath

    Dogbreath Well-Known Member

    Are you drunk?

    You gotta get away from the trailer park once in a while.

    The great lakes Salmon fishery has been a tremendous benefit to recreational Salmon fishing both here on the west coast of North America and in northern Europe as well-don't forget where downriggers were invented for one.
     
  8. lorneparker1

    lorneparker1 Banned

    im from ontario as most you know. And i can tell you in my experience it has had zero effect on the tourism here. Any real salmon/steelhead fisherman from back east longs to come out here and fish. Single action reels, Monster fish, open ocean, the scenery, orcas, whales, seals and the list goes on and on and on. FRICK MAN ITS SALMON FISHING IN BC!! world class! Anyone coming from out there to here usually isnt coming for the meat. Its for the experience. Its simlar to saying since we have whitetails in BC and now they are thriving in some areas hunters wont go to saskatewchan to shoot a monster.

    Tell you what though, they have it figured out with thier steelhead hatcheries and most of it is volunteer. I have been a member beforei got my drivers license(ontario steelheaders ass.). Some of my home rivers back there you can keep 5 a day and 20 fish days arent uncommon. Also downrigging for them is super fun and a pretty big. heres a vid of a buddy of my fathers you owns a charter business out of erieau 1.5 hours from where i grew up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dD3shaYB2I
     
  9. FishBC.org

    FishBC.org Active Member

    Very cool Lorne, and makes perfect sense.
    As for steelhead here in BC, the best time I've had ever was Telkwa.
    Wish we could get our stuff together like it sounds Ontario has.

    Dogbreath I meant a pacific fish. Figure of speech.
    I don't live in a trailer park friend.
    I also rarely drink.
     
  10. Stosh

    Stosh Well-Known Member

    I doubt very much that the Salmon fishery in the Great Lakes effects the WC fishery negatively, in fact it may be the opposite - the WC is the envy of every fisherman in the Great Lakes, and surely helps the tackle industry since the population is much greater out east. Have a look at the Great Ontario Salmon hunt results for this and previous years, many Tyee are caught during the season. It's true that the ministry is trying to bring back the Atlantics, but, against the wishes of the anglers who prefer Chinook. I've heard that it's possible that up to 50% of the Chinook are reproducing naturely in Canada and the US. The world record Coho was caught in Lake Ontario on the U.S. side. It's a great fishery but it will never duplicate what we have on the West Coast, providing we look after it.

    Stosh
     
  11. Fishallspec

    Fishallspec Member

    I am a Steveston guy (forty years + now) and my wife was originally from Thunder Bay. We purchased a cabin on Lake Superior a few years ago and in the 7 years I have been going back there for visits I ALWAYS make time to head out and do some fishing for Springs there. Granted they are not that big in general, a 5-7lbder is a nice one. As far as the thread asks, it is good for the economy on both ends. I now have rods and gear over there, the inlaw has a boat, I always buy a license and the same as here I cannot resist getting the latest hot lure or set up. Would post a couple pics. but work filters that out.
    Rich
     
  12. Bonker43

    Bonker43 Member

    My Dad lives in Ontario and fishes a lot in Laker Huron. Though the springs aren't as big as they are out here their numbers are better and there's way more action with coho just being a nuisance. The governments on both sides of the boarder see what a huge impact the sports fishery makes on the economy with the hatcheries and enhancement projects pumping out way more fish than here.
     
  13. wicket

    wicket Member

    wow lol you dont honestly believe that do u fish......yes 20 plus rainbow afternoons are very common here on lake erie. thank you ohio and penn state for planting them for us. without that we wouldnt have squat to catch with the mnr cutbacks and hatchery closures. when i was in college to be a fish farmer we collected wild king eggs from the credit river near toronto and raised 10000 that we replanted in lake ont@ 3 inches
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2011
  14. Time

    Time Active Member

    They seem to have the programs back there that pump out the fish numbers, big difference between here and there is they don't have to protect the genetic diversity of native stocks or manage a commercial and a first nations fishery in conjunction with a sports fishery. Nor is it managed by DFO. Provinces/states manage the programs, so it must be a lot easier to run.
    Almost envy them that simplicity.

    Now if they could locate a few fish farms there ...
     
  15. Weff

    Weff Member

    I grew up on Lake Huron in a small town called Port Elgin. Started fishing as a kid for salmon 38 yrs ago. I've caught countless Springs - biggest was 32 lbs but have seen bigger ones, up to almost 40. Long time ago though. Coho at the time were very rare, think I caught only one. We're talking from about 1973 to 1978'ish I fished the area hard for Springs. Would go down before school everyday and after school everynight during the run. All I could do at the time was dream about coming to BC and catching Steelhead, Springs, and Coho. I specifically remember I was obsessed about having the chance to catch Steelhead and having to come to BC to do it. Introduced species is never a good idea although the Pacifics relocation doesn't seem to be devestating the Great Lakes Fisheries in any way that I remember. I do remember the Alewife problems. They would wash up on the beaches by the bizzillions. Quite the smell.
     
  16. Weff

    Weff Member

    Cool holmes, you from that area or just know about the area? :) Sorry guys off topic.....
     
  17. flydon

    flydon Member

    Won a downrigger in the Toronto Star Salmon Derby. There used to be lots of coho,chinook in Lake Ontario, used to fish out of Marie Curtis Park.
    I also used to fish the Credit River for "steelhead" .
    Meaford , Thornbury, Cragleith also took up a lot of my free time, chasing Splake( cross between Speckled trout and Lake trout)
    I think too many hatchery fish were planted into the lakes, and all the excess feed stock (alewives) were eaten up, the Zebra mussels did not help.
    It was nice not to have to drive far in order to catch salmon, even though I would never eat them ( Mirex, Mercury), too many chemicals in the water.
    Don
    PS- Someone tried to use a salmon from BC to win the Derby, but when they did an autopsy on the fish, they discovered it did not have all the chemicals that the fish have in them in Ontario.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 16, 2011
  18. lorneparker1

    lorneparker1 Banned

    MY "home river" where are cottage was, is the nine mile river. Fished that maitland and saugeen alot n the fall and spring.
     
  19. Weff

    Weff Member

    Cool lorne, I used to ride my bike 8k to fish Denny's Dam on the Saugeen.
     

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